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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Yes but it too late.  Johnson tore dow all of star wars lore with this debacle.  I'm very sad.



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d21lewis said:
Or, if you have even less time, watch THIS video!
https://youtu.be/PE2at2Wo9sU

LMAO! Insta-fave!



Cerebralbore101 said:
Nautilus said:

Having just watched the movie, I honestly found it extremely good and I honestly dont understand all this hate it is getting.Sure it has some wtf moments that should have been done better, like Leia being blown and thrown to space but somehow uses the force, something she never used before, to save herself.And Finn being a less than useful charachter, specially since he is the only clone to ever break away from the empire and not exployting that concept and simply brushing it off as an genetic error.But other than that, The Last Jedi was an espectacle, with excellent writing and good humor.It is an excellent movie, and a movie that I recommend to anyone to watch.

Now, I will now speculate why people are upset about the movie, but since I can see this opinion getting a significant backlash, Im not answering anyone back that dosent respond with reason or arguments to back it up.Honestly, I think nostalgia is blinding people to be objective to the movie.Hell, I will go even farther than that and say that it is literally impossible for a new Star Wars film to be considered great ever again.If Disney tries to play too safe, you get episode VII, and people will say "ah, its too similar to the old movies"!But if Disney tries to do something more original(and by that, they NEED to implement new stuff that the Force can do, or situations that you might imply is not very Star Wars-ish), people will then complain that it dosent feel like Star Wars and wont like it.It will be simply impossible to keep the fans happy, plain and simple, because it will be impossible to meet the standarts that the fans want them to reach, simply because there isnt a movie that can do what they want.Sure that the film is not perfect, it has some flaws as the ones that I just said the paragraph before, but its a great movie.

Its not like some fans complaining about the movie will stop Star Wars from being successful ever again.This movie will probably raise it to new heights, but its disheartening to see reactions like this.

I watched it and didn't hate it, but noticed some flaws. I've had a few days to think on the movie, so I'll list the flaws here.

1. Finn's entire subplot was pointless, because the purple haired lady had a plan all along. She just refused to tell anybody for some reason, leading to a useless mutiny in the ship. The whole thing where they went to a casino planet and returned could be cut from the movie entirely and the plot would still make as much sense as it currently does. 

2. How the First Order has gained control of the galaxy is never explained. This weighed on me the entire way through the film. I mean the Rebels have had 30+ years to build a new republic. At the end of TFA they win a major military victory by blowing up the death star planet. How are they close to being annihilated in the second movie? 

3. If ramming a ship with hyperspace engines is all it takes to destroy a Star Destroyer, then why hasn't it been done before? I mean you would think that war would revolve around such an effective maneuver in this universe. 

4. Objects in motion in space don't lose speed once they get going. Once a ship runs out of fuel it doesn't just slow down. An object in motion stays in motion. This means the entire "oh we'll just chase them until they run out of fuel" plot ignores the rules of physics. 

5. They never explained why Luke wants the Jedi to die out, and they never explained why he changes his mind at the end. 

6. Rey really is a Mary Sue. 

7. I enjoyed the Snoke death twist, but it's kind of weird how easily he was killed. I mean, he could link minds across the galaxy, read minds, and force push/choke people across lightyears, but gets killed by a sneaky lightsaber trick? 

Again, I didn't hate the movie. It wasn't nearly as bad as the prequels. But I'd hardly call it great. 

1.Agree to some extent to the first point.While I dont think it was useless, given that it was due to Finn and Poe mistake that the Resistance almost got wiped out, the purple hair lady could have told them the plan from the get go.

2. Yeah, this one also bugs the hell out of me.Cant understand how they werent able to build everything back up from the end of episode 6 and end off the empire for good, but that a problem with the overall trilogy, not this movie in particular.

3.I dont agree with this.Because first off I would say that this must be easy to dodge.First you would need to position the ship just right, and the enemy ships would have to be in perfect position to also inflict significant damage.Plus, even if someone was trying to do that, the enemy could see right through their trap and simply dodge or minimize the damage that they would inflict.Not to mention the potential loss of men that this would imply, because you would need a big ship to take out the other large ships.Plus this only worked because the empire was so dead set on following the resistance that they basically made a line of ships right behind them and didnt worry about any kind of counteratack.

4.But the ship that loses the fuel stops accelerating, and keeps going at the same velocity, while the one chasing keeps gaining speed.Thus eventually it will catch up with the one it is chasing.

5.I thought that was pretty self explanatory.He wanted it to end because people placed too much power on them, and power corrupts people.The Jedi once held a place of great power, and due to power being a factor that corrupts people, when a Jedi turns to the dark side, it turns as a person of major influence over others, which only leads into disaster.This in turn facilitated not only the creation of the empire, but its conquest over the universe, because Palpatine was a Jedi of great power(or was in a position of great power thanks to the Jedis, something of the sort).Surely there must be similar examples through history of these kind of occurances, and thats why Luke wants the Jedi itself to dissapear, its status quo, but not the people who can master it.

6.Not sure what a Mary Sue is.

7.He was cocky, and that got him killed.He was too confident on his control over Ben, and that got the better of him.Its like that Indiana Jones scene, where indy kills that highly skilled fighter with a gunshot.Snoke let his guard down and was stabbed in the back.

Last edited by Nautilus - on 26 December 2017

My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

NightlyPoe said:
You guys aren't wrong about Rey becoming too powerful too quickly. The Force Awakens really was a poorly made movie and Rey's easy Force development is a key problem. I don't subscribe to that it's because she's a girl that they did it, but it does make for a lousy excuse as to why it's okay.

I don't know. With all the other messages they had so on the nose, it wouldn't surprise me that's the exact reason why they did it. I think they wanted a girl Jedi, which is perfectly fine, but didn't want her to have to struggle too  much. Either because they felt like girls wouldn't want to watch her suffer through those struggles or they didn't want the male Jedis to look so powerful next to a female, even though we know those males had to go through the same struggles. Whichever it is, it's insulting to the audience's intelligence, as well as women, thinking they wouldn't be interested in or couldn't handle a female protagonist who isn't perfect.

It really doesn't help that a lot of people made excuses for it in TFA, saying that it would be addressed in this film. And that she would actually train with Luke.  Personally, I wouldn't have forgiven it 100%, but it wouldn't have bothered me as much when I rewatched TFA. None of that happened. And while some are still trying to defend it, there are a lot who have woken to the fact that she is just a Mary Sue.

It really sucks cause Daisy Ridley's personality shines through her character and it makes you want to like her. But, her Mary Sue status makes her far less interesting and less likable. 



NightlyPoe said:
 

And the movie didn't "crap" on anything.  You've become invested in hating it despite the Rey/Ben/Luke stuff being some of the best work of the entire series.  Look at the way you're running down people's opinions and taking pleasure in imagined fan boycotts.

 

Seriously, you should stop writting non sense like this. There is no "work" bewteen Luke/Rey. Nothing. We get one hour of a depressed and weak old man grumbling.

It's the most lazy work ever. We have that in every TV show/movie. Old , depressed people who are self defeating and refuse to do anything. If it wasn't Star Wars, Luke would have had some wiskhy bottles right next to him.

It was lazy and disgusting. The fans outright rejected it. They are more clever than you think.



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Vincoletto said:
Pavolink said:
I saw the infamous Leia scene.
L
O
L

Worst part is that, somehow, people still defend this scene and think it is ok...

Leia should have died there, knowing what happened to carrie fisher. Just floating into the space towards the galaxy, would be a nice and respectful ending for her.

I'll love to read how people defend it.

Always had a laugh at people defending the mary sue that is the girl, how ilogical are these sequels and the cheap humor it them.



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NightlyPoe said:
thismeintiel said:

Any fan of any series is going to take it a little personal when they think that series just got shat all over by the new caretakers of that series.

Anyway, I don't believe you. You honestly thought this was going to drop faster than Justice League's 56%? A movie poorly received by critics and fans? I call BS. 

And you are putting WAY too much importance on Sunday. Care to explain why Fri saw a 76% decline, that was a larger one than Sun saw? If you're theory about kids being in school holds up, then it shouldn't have drop so incredibly. Nor should Saturday have seen a 54% decline, compared to TFA 2nd Sat decline of 17%. TFA Xmas eve take was also almost double that of TLJ.

So, sorry. Nothing but a bunch of people no longer being interested in watching/re-watching the film accounts for that. 

You've got the links and quotes of my warning that it was going to have a rough weekend last week.  You can call B.S., but I'm on the record, so you're out of luck.

As for my putting way too much importance.  First, a huge Friday drop is normal for any massive movie.  Especially when opening days are really two-day events put together thanks to the Thursday evening showings making up almost half the Friday gross.  Even The Force Awakens fell 59% and it was buoyed by it landing on Christmas.

Second, holiday shopping depressed the whole weekend, not just Sunday, though Sunday was the worst.  It was the best calendar for the American economy, but a terrible one for a movie industry.

And the movie didn't "crap" on anything.  You've become invested in hating it despite the Rey/Ben/Luke stuff being some of the best work of the entire series.  Look at the way you're running down people's opinions and taking pleasure in imagined fan boycotts.

I'm just going to have end this pointless discussion. You're using the whole "itz teh holidays" to defend a horrible weekend drop for any movie at any time, let alone a huge franchise like SW.  Even I, who was being incredibly negative about it thought it would drop 55%-60%, yet it did much worse than even that. And no, the holidays aren't going to completely fuck over a huge franchise like SW. If they thought it would, they wouldn't release at this time of year.

And I don't like lazy writing, which is why I don't like this movie. Apparently, a lot of people don't, considering the user reviews and drop in box office. Oh, I guess I'm just imagining all of that. 



Puppyroach said:
Azuren said:

1. Luke's one gift in life was his pilot skills, which was attained through practice, not by virtue of being a female Protagonist.

4. Luke was roughly on Han's level of skill when manning the guns in the MF; Rey is a goddess with all forms of technology even though that's not how the force works.

6. Luke not only lost his first lightsaber duel, but lost a damn hand in the process and nearly died; Rey humiliated Kylo, whose only disadvantage seemed to be because he was male.

Regardless of the other points, what does her gender have to do with anything? Why is there such an issue with having a female hero in a movie like Star Wars? It kind of reminds me of people being upset about having a female Doctor Who :).

1. Rey has not lived a protected life and had to struggle all through her upbringing. This gives her another set of abilities than Luke, for better and for worse. In what way does the movie claim she is better because she is a female?

6. Rey is likely very capable at that type of fighting, she has her staff and knows how do be effective in combat. How does the movie portray him as bad because he is a male? Is captain Phasmas only disadvantage that she is a woman aswell?

Bravo for picking subjective musings to address instead of all the clear evidence that Rey is an awful character. It really drives home the point that you would rather argue that the movie isn't sexist than argue that Rey isn't an awful character.

 

1. That makes her so edgy. Just because she grew up in a bad environment doesn't mean she would have excellent fighting skills. In fact, given her physical stature and the age she was left there, one would have to assume her main survival tactic was just letting bigger people take what they want so they wouldn't hurt her. The complete lack of muscle definition and the fact that she'd never fired a blaster before back that up.

 

6. Staff ≠ Sword that can cut nearly anything. Lightsaber combat is a very intricate thing. Just look at Finn's handling of the lightsaber, and he's actually had formal training in armed combat. Not only that, but he was the best of the best. But a nearly weightless weapon with nearly infinite cutting potential is much more difficult to use.

 

As far as the "but why bring up gender" comments: it's a subjective musing. It has no evidence and serves no purpose. But that won't stop you from bringing it up like my mentioning that completely disproved every valid point I made, right?



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I find your lack of analysis disturbing.

Take out the 45m previews, factor in that Sunday was cmas eve which is usually a bad box office day and you get a different picture.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

Lucas-Rio said:
NightlyPoe said:

And the movie didn't "crap" on anything.  You've become invested in hating it despite the Rey/Ben/Luke stuff being some of the best work of the entire series.  Look at the way you're running down people's opinions and taking pleasure in imagined fan boycotts.

 

Seriously, you should stop writting non sense like this. There is no "work" bewteen Luke/Rey. Nothing. We get one hour of a depressed and weak old man grumbling.

It's the most lazy work ever. We have that in every TV show/movie. Old , depressed people who are self defeating and refuse to do anything. If it wasn't Star Wars, Luke would have had some wiskhy bottles right next to him.

It was lazy and disgusting. The fans outright rejected it. They are more clever than you think.

Speaking of lazy. I was just reminded of another big plot hole. Two actually. They are in the mine that supposedly has no other exit, and the big blast door is lowered. How did they all get out of there in those shitty crafts, while also being able to line up without getting blasted to hell? I don't recall them opening the blast door (which opening long enough for them to get out would have been a death sentence), or the crafts being in that main room behind that door. The 2nd, the Order was given the instruction that there are no prisoners, no survivors. Yet, they not only let them return to the base in the rest of those shitty vehicles, but allow Finn to not only talk for a min with Rose in plain sight, but allow him to drag her back to base? Something that must have taken at least 5-10 mins?