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The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Forums - Movies Discussion - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Puppyroach said:
Azuren said:

1. Luke's one gift in life was his pilot skills, which was attained through practice, not by virtue of being a female Protagonist.

4. Luke was roughly on Han's level of skill when manning the guns in the MF; Rey is a goddess with all forms of technology even though that's not how the force works.

6. Luke not only lost his first lightsaber duel, but lost a damn hand in the process and nearly died; Rey humiliated Kylo, whose only disadvantage seemed to be because he was male.

Regardless of the other points, what does her gender have to do with anything? Why is there such an issue with having a female hero in a movie like Star Wars? It kind of reminds me of people being upset about having a female Doctor Who :).

1. Rey has not lived a protected life and had to struggle all through her upbringing. This gives her another set of abilities than Luke, for better and for worse. In what way does the movie claim she is better because she is a female?

6. Rey is likely very capable at that type of fighting, she has her staff and knows how do be effective in combat. How does the movie portray him as bad because he is a male? Is captain Phasmas only disadvantage that she is a woman aswell?

So thats it, cant fight the list of points so single out the ones that you can spin to call out sexism for?

The entire point of that post was to differentiate why luke is not a marty and she is a mary.  If she was cast as a man then we would be saying is a gary stu. nothing would have changed so gender has nothing to do with it.

This is ghost busters 2016 all over again. No argument can be made against a horrible movie cuz women are the main characters.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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There seem to be 2 kinds of core Star Wars fans.

1. The people who hate TLJ. These seem like the people who love the lore and rules of the Star Wars universe. If anything is off, its the end of the world. "Han shot someone with his left hand?! Han is RIGHT HANDED YOU PIECES OF SHIT!!!"

2. The people who love TLJ. These seem like people who just love Star Wars no matter what. If Leia is suddenly a jedi master and can bring herself back from the dead, who cares? She could tap dance back to the ship while the cantina music plays and they would still enjoy it.

I'm exaggerating of course.


Both have the right to feel the way they do. The movies have never been the same after the original trilogy imo. Episode 4, 5 and 6 are the only movies that is Star Wars to me. I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars, but the prequels absolutely killed whatever potential this franchise had to me becoming a fan. Not sure if Ill ever watch any of the newer movies. It just doesn't seem like Star Wars anymore. Just business people throwing stuff at the screen and hoping it sticks.



Don't know what everyone's complaining about, I for one thought The Last Jedi Mary Sue was amazing, and I can't wait for Episode IX when Carrie Poppins makes her triumphant return and teams up with Mary Sue to rid the galaxy of the evil white male patriarchy once and for all!

Heh sry, I still have Sargon of Akkad's "review" of the movie in my head.  It's both ridiculously over the top and yet hilariously on point in many ways...



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

So Rey is the Kal-El of Star Wars it seems and the movie got more potholes than the entire MCU. Yeah I am going to skip this movie.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

eva01beserk said:
Puppyroach said:

Regardless of the other points, what does her gender have to do with anything? Why is there such an issue with having a female hero in a movie like Star Wars? It kind of reminds me of people being upset about having a female Doctor Who :).

1. Rey has not lived a protected life and had to struggle all through her upbringing. This gives her another set of abilities than Luke, for better and for worse. In what way does the movie claim she is better because she is a female?

6. Rey is likely very capable at that type of fighting, she has her staff and knows how do be effective in combat. How does the movie portray him as bad because he is a male? Is captain Phasmas only disadvantage that she is a woman aswell?

So thats it, cant fight the list of points so single out the ones that you can spin to call out sexism for?

The entire point of that post was to differentiate why luke is not a marty and she is a mary.  If she was cast as a man then we would be saying is a gary stu. nothing would have changed so gender has nothing to do with it.

This is ghost busters 2016 all over again. No argument can be made against a horrible movie cuz women are the main characters.

I have no issue at all arguing the other points, but you made those two points specifically pointing to her gender which is just... bizzarre. I wasn´t the one who brought her gender into the equation, you did that in two points. I agree with you that Ghostbusters was a bad movie, but you must agree that it is one thing two argue that it is a bad movie because women are in it and another thing to argue it is a bad movie and women happen to be in it?



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Puppyroach said:
eva01beserk said:

So thats it, cant fight the list of points so single out the ones that you can spin to call out sexism for?

The entire point of that post was to differentiate why luke is not a marty and she is a mary.  If she was cast as a man then we would be saying is a gary stu. nothing would have changed so gender has nothing to do with it.

This is ghost busters 2016 all over again. No argument can be made against a horrible movie cuz women are the main characters.

I have no issue at all arguing the other points, but you made those two points specifically pointing to her gender which is just... bizzarre. I wasn´t the one who brought her gender into the equation, you did that in two points. I agree with you that Ghostbusters was a bad movie, but you must agree that it is one thing two argue that it is a bad movie because women are in it and another thing to argue it is a bad movie and women happen to be in it?

First of is that I was not the one who made the post.

Read the post again, it says thouse points that hit regardles of gender. From what he said the gender part is no more than a thought of why is was done by the director. Just stating horrible character flaws and then why it might have been done. Again, something that if it wa a male lead they would still be problematic. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
Puppyroach said:

I have no issue at all arguing the other points, but you made those two points specifically pointing to her gender which is just... bizzarre. I wasn´t the one who brought her gender into the equation, you did that in two points. I agree with you that Ghostbusters was a bad movie, but you must agree that it is one thing two argue that it is a bad movie because women are in it and another thing to argue it is a bad movie and women happen to be in it?

First of is that I was not the one who made the post.

Read the post again, it says thouse points that hit regardles of gender. From what he said the gender part is no more than a thought of why is was done by the director. Just stating horrible character flaws and then why it might have been done. Again, something that if it wa a male lead they would still be problematic. 

Yes, my mistake regarding who made those points. But I was questioning what the purpose was of those points. In what way does the movie portray that Rey got her gifts because she was a woman (point 1) and in what way did the movie portray Kylo as weaker compared to Rey because he was a man (point 6)?



thismeintiel said:

Yea, I'm sure you were expecting a dismal fall of ~70%.  The largest drop in the series and a God awful number for ANY movie, regardless of the circumstances. 

It's a bit more than I would have estimated, but I would have been pleasantly surprised if it managed a drop of under 60%.  Seriously, anyone who thinks that a $200+ million opening weekend wouldn't have a massive drop on a weekend where Sunday is Christmas Eve is woefully ignorant of the way box office works.  It's certainly no indication that there's been some massive backlash.

You seem to have taken this all personally for some reason.  Why is that?



Pavolink said:
I saw the infamous Leia scene.
L
O
L

Worst part is that, somehow, people still defend this scene and think it is ok...

Leia should have died there, knowing what happened to carrie fisher. Just floating into the space towards the galaxy, would be a nice and respectful ending for her.



d21lewis said:
Azuren said:

Gonna stop you right there:

 

1. Luke's one gift in life was his pilot skills, which was attained through practice, not by virtue of being a female Protagonist.

2. Luke lived a normal Tatooine life; Rey "struggled" and is therefore more interesting by default.

3. Luke got fucked by Jawas and nearly got fucked in the cantina; Rey kicked the shit out of a group of armed individuals.

4. Luke was roughly on Han's level of skill when manning the guns in the MF; Rey is a goddess with all forms of technology even though that's not how the force works.

5. Luke had to struggle and concentrate to use force pull in the Wampa cave; Rey accidentally used force pull to much greater effectiveness with no effort from a further distance.

6. Luke not only lost his first lightsaber duel, but lost a damn hand in the process and nearly died; Rey humiliated Kylo, whose only disadvantage seemed to be because he was male.

7. Luke never pulled off any high level force techniques until he'd trained for 3 years; Rey accidentally did the mind trick on the second try.

8. Luke's skill with a blaster could be explained by his proficiency for gunning things down in his ship on Tatooine; Rey instinctively got a kill shot the second time she ever fired a blaster and proceeded to get an insane kill:shot ratio.

9. Luke struggled and failed to lift an X-wing, and barely managed to lift three rocks while balancing; Rey lifted rocks like it ain't no thang and does zero effort.

 

The fact is Luke had clear parameters on what kind of person he was in IV, which gradually expanded over the course of V and VI, with RotJ showing him as a Jedi after training for a number of years. Rey has been doing things that Final Form Luke had trouble pulling off (his mind trick didn't work every time, whereas Rey has a perfect success rate). Rey is the single worst character in all of Star Wars, and the only ones who disagree seem to be disillusioned about there NEEDING to be a perfect female Jedi as the protagonist.

 

Sorry, but super-flawed Jedi Finn sounds like a much better choice. His journey to become a Jedi would be so much more interesting to watch.

Goddam, I love this post.

Love this post too. Luke needed 3 movies to become a full powerful Jedi. He was actually a very flawed and crappy Jedi on first and second movie. The scene on the SECOND movie where he cannot move properly a crappy small rock shows it perfectly. He was capable of doing what he did because of the small knowledge he had of force and because of his friends. He just becomes a proper Jedi on the third movie. I love how on Return of the Jedi you see him powerful right on the start. You sense the evolution like "wow luke got really powerfull with time". Same with Anakin.

But Rey... well she becomes a full powerful Jedi in 5 minutes...