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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Nautilus said:

Having just watched the movie, I honestly found it extremely good and I honestly dont understand all this hate it is getting.Sure it has some wtf moments that should have been done better, like Leia being blown and thrown to space but somehow uses the force, something she never used before, to save herself.And Finn being a less than useful charachter, specially since he is the only clone to ever break away from the empire and not exployting that concept and simply brushing it off as an genetic error.But other than that, The Last Jedi was an espectacle, with excellent writing and good humor.It is an excellent movie, and a movie that I recommend to anyone to watch.

Now, I will now speculate why people are upset about the movie, but since I can see this opinion getting a significant backlash, Im not answering anyone back that dosent respond with reason or arguments to back it up.Honestly, I think nostalgia is blinding people to be objective to the movie.Hell, I will go even farther than that and say that it is literally impossible for a new Star Wars film to be considered great ever again.If Disney tries to play too safe, you get episode VII, and people will say "ah, its too similar to the old movies"!But if Disney tries to do something more original(and by that, they NEED to implement new stuff that the Force can do, or situations that you might imply is not very Star Wars-ish), people will then complain that it dosent feel like Star Wars and wont like it.It will be simply impossible to keep the fans happy, plain and simple, because it will be impossible to meet the standarts that the fans want them to reach, simply because there isnt a movie that can do what they want.Sure that the film is not perfect, it has some flaws as the ones that I just said the paragraph before, but its a great movie.

Its not like some fans complaining about the movie will stop Star Wars from being successful ever again.This movie will probably raise it to new heights, but its disheartening to see reactions like this.

I watched it and didn't hate it, but noticed some flaws. I've had a few days to think on the movie, so I'll list the flaws here.

1. Finn's entire subplot was pointless, because the purple haired lady had a plan all along. She just refused to tell anybody for some reason, leading to a useless mutiny in the ship. The whole thing where they went to a casino planet and returned could be cut from the movie entirely and the plot would still make as much sense as it currently does. 

2. How the First Order has gained control of the galaxy is never explained. This weighed on me the entire way through the film. I mean the Rebels have had 30+ years to build a new republic. At the end of TFA they win a major military victory by blowing up the death star planet. How are they close to being annihilated in the second movie? 

3. If ramming a ship with hyperspace engines is all it takes to destroy a Star Destroyer, then why hasn't it been done before? I mean you would think that war would revolve around such an effective maneuver in this universe. 

4. Objects in motion in space don't lose speed once they get going. Once a ship runs out of fuel it doesn't just slow down. An object in motion stays in motion. This means the entire "oh we'll just chase them until they run out of fuel" plot ignores the rules of physics. 

5. They never explained why Luke wants the Jedi to die out, and they never explained why he changes his mind at the end. 

6. Rey really is a Mary Sue. 

7. I enjoyed the Snoke death twist, but it's kind of weird how easily he was killed. I mean, he could link minds across the galaxy, read minds, and force push/choke people across lightyears, but gets killed by a sneaky lightsaber trick? 

Again, I didn't hate the movie. It wasn't nearly as bad as the prequels. But I'd hardly call it great. 



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thismeintiel said:

I look forward to the day when you actually change your mind on this film.  How anyone can like that the plot of a half hour episode of Star Trek:TNG or Clone Wars, and not a great one I'll add, got stretched out to 2 hrs is acceptable for a mainline SW movie is beyond me.  Can't be a real fan if they don't care that SW has been reduced to this.  Thank god real fans are speaking with their wallets.

Speaking with their wallets? These wallets just placed TLJ into the second biggest opening of all time. These wallets will continue to surge TLJ into one of the biggest movies of all time. If fans are speaking with their wallets then they must LOOOOOOVE this movie.



A_C_E said:
thismeintiel said:

I look forward to the day when you actually change your mind on this film.  How anyone can like that the plot of a half hour episode of Star Trek:TNG or Clone Wars, and not a great one I'll add, got stretched out to 2 hrs is acceptable for a mainline SW movie is beyond me.  Can't be a real fan if they don't care that SW has been reduced to this.  Thank god real fans are speaking with their wallets.

Speaking with their wallets? These wallets just placed TLJ into the second biggest opening of all time. These wallets will continue to surge TLJ into one of the biggest movies of all time. If fans are speaking with their wallets then they must LOOOOOOVE this movie.

Yes, a hugely hyped SW movie is going to open big. Especially when many fans excused the flaws of the last movie because they thought they would be addressed in this film. Now that they realize they weren't, they aren't coming back to rewatch it, like they did with TFA.

You can excuse the largest drop in SW history, and a horrible drop for any movie, if it makes you feel better, but the facts are there. 



I'm noticing that the backlash is huge. As huge as the dropoff from the box office.

And many are changing also their mind about tfa and addressing it was a bad sw movie.

Glorious day. The evil disney empire is going to end.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


thismeintiel said:
A_C_E said:

Speaking with their wallets? These wallets just placed TLJ into the second biggest opening of all time. These wallets will continue to surge TLJ into one of the biggest movies of all time. If fans are speaking with their wallets then they must LOOOOOOVE this movie.

Yes, a hugely hyped SW movie is going to open big. Especially when many fans excused the flaws of the last movie because they thought they would be addressed in this film. Now that they realize they weren't, they aren't coming back to rewatch it, like they did with TFA.

You can excuse the largest drop in SW history, and a horrible drop for any movie, if it makes you feel better, but the facts are there. 

My argument was TLJ is going to be one of the biggest movies of all time as well as having the second biggest opening of all time thanks to people using their wallets.

Where did I excuse the largest drop in SW history? You see, I didn't. Since you couldn't argue my point, you had to fabricate some context. You should work on that next time.



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A_C_E said:
thismeintiel said:

Yes, a hugely hyped SW movie is going to open big. Especially when many fans excused the flaws of the last movie because they thought they would be addressed in this film. Now that they realize they weren't, they aren't coming back to rewatch it, like they did with TFA.

You can excuse the largest drop in SW history, and a horrible drop for any movie, if it makes you feel better, but the facts are there. 

My argument was TLJ is going to be one of the biggest movies of all time as well as having the second biggest opening of all time thanks to people using their wallets.

Where did I excuse the largest drop in SW history? You see, I didn't. Since you couldn't argue my point, you had to fabricate some context. You should work on that next time.

LOL, you're the one claiming people liked it because of the opening, which was driven by hype. But then what does the huge drop mean?  Hmm. Maybe you should try harder on that fabrication thing. 



thismeintiel said:

LOL, you're the one claiming people liked it because of the opening, which was driven by hype. But then what does the huge drop mean?  Hmm. Maybe you should try harder on that fabrication thing. 

Where did I claim people liked it because of the opening? I said, "If fans are speaking with their wallets, then they must LOOOVE this movie". I was mocking you, lol, and you still don't get it. Right over your head. I did not make the connection between love and money, you did by saying you were glad people were speaking with their wallets. 

TLJ has the second biggest opening of all time and will be one of the biggest movies of all time, whether it has a huge drop or not, this is a fact, but according to you this is fabrication? OK buddy!



Shadow1980 said:
thismeintiel said:

1. Lol, wow, what stretch. You're honestly going to compare the stupid call of a grunt, in a scene that lasts 1 min, with the grand plan from the Order, in an event that is the main plot of the film and takes place over the course of 18 hrs? There's a reason people call the flaws of the OG nitpicks, while this is a huge gaping hole. There's also a reason Lucas was never so stupid to focus the plot of his film on a turtle VS turtle race.

2. Sorry, there's no more argument on this topic. This is not the new movie in a new franchise. We've seen ROTJ. We know how that ended. You don't get a pass for being a lazy writer who can't think up a couple simple scenes to explain it. 

Same thing, no more argument. If your character is the text book definition of a Mary Sue, they are a Mary Sue. And Luke is one? OK, now I know you have never watched the OT.

3. Entitled nerds? Wow, can only fight their opinion with insults? Those nerds deserve to be entitled. Without them there would only be one SW movie that would have failed at the box office. And there wouldn't have been a reason for these movies to exist. To think these movies only belong to Hollywood is the true feeling of entitlement. And those low ratings aren't just being left by diehard fans, either.

It's also pathetic that you think they should just eat whatever movie Disney gives them and continue to go to the theaters for repeat viewings, just cause it's hurting the box office. We are not servants to Hollywood. They put out a product. We don't like it, we let it be known and don't show up.

#1. The point is, the FO isn't somehow so grossly incompetent that they make the Empire seem like tactical/strategic geniuses. Even in popular and well-regarded works of fiction, including each era of Star Wars, incompetent villains are a common trope. People's nostalgia filters let them excuse such things in works they grew up loving, but the exact same thing in a newer work in the same series results in "RUINED FOREVER!" reactions. Nearly every complaint about the new trilogy can be easily lodged against the original trilogy.

#2. No, you wanted more backstory on the FO in the films. You're not entitled to it, and it's not important to the movie's story. It's explained in expanded universe materials. Even without that background material from the books, one can easily infer that the Empire was not completely crushed at Endor (because a galaxy-spanning military force would not simply cease functioning because they lost a single, albeit critical, battle as well as their leader; even in Legends the Thrawn Trilogy showed the Imperial Navy continued on after Endor), and that at least some remnants reorganized and created a new organization dedicated to the Empire's principle of galactic fascist terror. Neither TFA nor TLJ needed any exposition regarding the FO's origins to function as a film. Nor did it need any background on Snoke. Who he was wasn't important to the immediate story of TLJ. Just like Sidious in ROTJ, he merely serves as a plot device with minimal screen time, not a fleshed-out character.

Also, I've watched the OT movies at least 200 times each over the past 30+ years, so bite me. I'm not saying Luke is a Gary Stu, only that Rey is no more a Mary Sue than him. There isn't anything about her character that cannot be explained by examining her background. Again, fans exaggerate things, often to ridiculous levels.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/01/04/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-not-a-mary-sue/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/12/21/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-still-not-a-mary-sue/
birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/04/25/for-the-last-time-rey-is-not-a-mary-sue

#3. Stop making excuses for those people. Nobody taking an even-handed, objective critical approach to TLJ would give the film the lowest possible score. This is simply a bunch of irrationally angry fans venting and engaging in nonconstructive behavior. Some people are probably pissed because Rian Johnson didn't validate their pet theories. Others are probably still sore over the old EU material getting de-canonized into "Legends" and simply want to crap all over anything Star Wars made under the Disney umbrella. Others still (probably a small chunk) are just doing it for laughs, or for vague political reasons ("Something, something, SJWs. Something, something, feminists."), or are simply bandwagoning because it's now cool in some circles to hate Star Wars. But regardless of whatever reasons for the needless and undeserved review bombing of TLJ and general hate for it, this is not a half-star film. Anybody that says it is is clearly exaggerating. In fact, it goes beyond exaggeration, because it's not a bad film. It's not even a mediocre film. It's an an entertaining and beautifully-crafted film. I don't think it was perfect, but it was definitely enjoyable.

1. Again, you're doing a poor job of defending it. The Empire was never this grossly incompetent. Maybe individuals low on the totem pole, but never the Emperor. He would have never had a Star Destroyer following the Rebels for almost 18 hrs, just waiting for them to run out of gas (which in itself is a stupid  and mundane concept), as his master plan. That situation would have been handled in 10-15 mins.

2. Yea, sorry but I don't put up with lazy writing on this grand scale. If you're fine with it, whatever. But, it's more than entitlement that makes us demand answers. 

Mary Sue, through and through. She fits the description to a T. You may want to watch the videos d21lewis posted, as they point it out even clearer. Again, we demand writing that isn't so lazy as to include a Mary Sue. SW deserves better.

3. And just as bad are the people posting 9s and 10s, like it's a masterpiece. Like I said before, this isn't about pet theories or the EU (which didn't seem to hurt TFA's box office.) This is about us wanting something, anything interesting, but instead getting a big load of nothing. And boring main and side plots to top it off, filled with humor that didn't hit its mark. Of course, in the end, ratings mean Jack all, but money talks. They don't need to vote online when they can with their wallet. 



Yeah the empire was established in the old films in taking power when darth vader turned to the dark side.



thismeintiel said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with nostalgia. People go back and watch those films almost yearly. They know the flaws in them. They even show them to their kids, who then also fall in love with them, and their story and world, even though they are so old  that MOST movies in their era aren't even given the time of day by those same kids.

No, this movie fails on its own merits, or lack thereof. The points set up in TFA are completely dropped or lead to nothing special, making the movie incredibly mundane/boring, while taking away the hope from people who defended TFA that those unanswered questions would be answered. The humor is out of place and jarring. And that scene that doesn't belong in a SW movie isn't because it's different, but good, it's because it's horribly kid movie generic.

This.  Exactly this is my main issue with these last two films (Well, that and what they did with Luke). 

When I watched TFA I didnt like it that much but I was willing to forgive all of those holes because I thought they were just building up "the mystery" and that all of those questions would be answered in the next film. But nope.

Now I am with the biggest cinematic blue balls of my entire life.