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Forums - Movies & TV - Top 5 Things I Disliked About SW:TLJ

I personally enjoyed it a lot.
Maybe because I am someone that watches the movies passively and not a major fan, but I thought the plot was engaging and the characters were interesting.



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WhatATimeToBeAlive said:
If Anakin would have been a girl + pod racing when she was 8 years old = major shitstorm.

Reys skills didn't bother me. For example, she couldn't force-resist Snoke at all, and had bigger difficulties than Kylo while they were fighting with the Snokes guards.

Phantom Menace was hugely divisive and the poor actor who played young Anakin was sadly driven down a dark path in real life due to vitriol of fans.  His immaculate conception and midichlorians count did not have a favorable response either, and he was recast and aged up a good decade for the sequel.  I don't want that for Daisy, she does a fine job with what she is given.  



numberwang said:
StarOcean said:

We get it, you got raped by CGI in the form of Jar Jar. He got you good in the butthole and now you have a PTSD aversion to them. They aren't bad. CGI is fine. And it definitely wasn't used in a bad way this movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsuvXHGCVXE

So? It's fine XD 



superchunk said:
Farsala said:

I give you 5 more but not with as much writing.

1. Super Leia - She's been known to be strong in force since RotJ. Its shouldn't be surprising that in 30+ years she could use the force to pull / push ... which in zero gravity makes sense. Surviving is also meh as Kylo survived a massive shot from Chewy's bow gun in TFA.

2. Lack of lightsaber battle between anyone important. - I'd put ANH/ESB in the same amount of light saber wielding as TLJ.

3. It's Star Wars but 90% of the movie is between 2 ships despite the longest runtime. I like more planets. - Personal preference.


4. People seem to say it is a high risk movie, but they still won't take high enough risks with deaths or even loss of limbs with the good guys like with Luke losing hand, Obi Wan in first movie and Anakin limbs. Luke only just "dies" - Did you not watch ANH? or RotJ? His death is a combination of these elements in past movies. I was expecting a loss of a hand as well since it was the staple of the 2nd movie. But, there was an cycle of loss in this movie in that the entire resistance is on the verge of collapse along with jedi/sith.


5. The force in general has become more casual, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next movie a random good guy all of a sudden uses the force like Finn or Poe. - The force was found in many people historically but died off due to no one out looking for them. How is it a surprise that a kid can do little things? What is surprising is that there are not more untrained people trying to do good with very basic force abilities.

Edit: Came up with a better one

6: No meaningful/strong villain

I: Darth Maul (he lost/died)

II: Dooku (he lost, almost died)

III: Dooku,Emperor, Anakin (lost, won, lost/almost died)

IV: Vader (lost/almost died)

V: Vader (won overall)

VI: Vader, Emperor (lost/redeemed, lost/died... didn't do shit honestly why is no one comparing his death to Snoke / Kylo's losses)

VII: Kylo Ren (he loses) okay.. (Kylo lost to insurmountable odds)

VIII: Kylo Ren (he lost again) and a few minutes of Snoke (also lost) (Kylo overall won, but lost little battles also due to emotion/mental state more than anything else)

IX: Kylo Ren again... (Spoiler: he's gonna lose) (I'm pegging him for redemption and a return of Snoke... something that will finally demonstrate who the hell this guy actually is... remember that story from Palpatine to Anakin...)

Edited above...

1. It's never been shown that she has real power like a force push.

2. ANH gets an excuse for being the first film., but still had the ever important battle between top villain and hero. ESB doesn't have much but it is still important within the franchise with that bombshell.

3. Yea

4. No one meaningful loses anything in ROTJ while ANH has Obi dying. Luke "dies"  and even you think Snoke "dies"

5. I am not surprised by the kid using it, but I am surprised by the skill involved with the force has been changed.

I. And he fights 1v2 and kills Qui-Gon a jedi master. A strong compelling villain.

II.  Again he fights 1v2 and injures both Obi-Wan and Anakin. Then he fights Yoda, one of the best.

III. Yep some good setup

IV. Kills Obi-Wan

V. Yea

VI. Kills Vader/Anakin

VII. Kills Han, loses to untrained girl, doesn't even do any damage.

VIII. Loses again and doesn't kill anyone but another villain. Luke "kills" himself.

IX. We best hope something good happens like that.

The big differences is that the villains haven't proved themselves strong, especially against the incompetent Rebels. The Rebels always win every engagement against the empire while also somehow killing themselves. Both Han and Luke basically kill themselves as do a lot of other rebels. A strong villain would make a strong hero.



Rey was sold off as a child and held her own on Jakku for years. In TFA, it's shown she can more than hold her own, long before she ever learns that she has a connection to the force. So I don't buy the "Rey shouldn't barely be able to wield a lightsaber" thing. Anyway, I could adress a lot of the single points here, but I really think what it boils down to is if you go looking for issues and don't look for potential in-movie explanations for them. It has some issues though, sure.

Anyway, I rewatched the entire saga this weekend, and I think people hold the original trilogy in too high regards... They had several developmental issues too.



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I'm going to go through and respond to a few posts in a minute, but I just wanted to give an update. Seems my prediction of it seeing a decent drop is proving true.

TFA dropped just over 11% going from Sat to Sun, making $60.6M. From Sun to Mon, it dropped 34%, making $40.1M. Now, if we look at TLJ, it dropped 20% going from Sat to Sun, making $51.3M. And dropped a massive 58% from Sun to Mon, making $21.6M. Wonder if Disney is going to end up regretting turning SW into a Marvel film (again, I love the Marvel films, just not every movie should be turned into one, especially Star Wars) and are going to reconsider letting Rian Johnson making his own trilogy after this one.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 19 December 2017

thismeintiel said:
I'm going to go through and respond to a few posts in a minute, but I just wanted to give an update. Seems my prediction of it seeing a decent drop is proving true.

TFA did dropped just over 11% going from Sat to Sun, making $60.6M. From Sun to Mon, it dropped 34%, making $40.1M. Now, if we look at TLJ, it dropped 20% going from Sat to Sun, making $51.3M. And dropped a massive 58% from Sun to Mon, making $21.6M. Wonder if Disney is going to end up regretting turning SW into a Marvel film (again, I love the Marvel films, just not every movie should be turned into one, especially Star Wars) and are going to reconsider letting Rian Johnson making his own trilogy after this one.

It might be a bit difficult to accurately determine that any drop in performance compared to TFA is purely - or at all for that matter - due to some fan backlash at this point. That's not to say fan backlash, especially depending on the scale, should be ignored. However, this drop could just as well be about what people thought of TFA, rather than what they think of TLJ. After all, TFA was a fresh start, and everybody - hardcore fans and casual movie audience alike - was interested to see where they might go with it. What would Star Wars away from George Lucas look like? Many of them may have simply decided they (still) don't care for it upon seeing it. The film has also aged quite poorly in many people's eyes, where they originally loved it on first viewing, it's stock has since gone downhill for them. 

That said, I do agree with you that Disney might wanna think twice about letting Rian Johnson oversee a whole trilogy of his own. The hardcore fanbase is important, because those are usually the people who will go prop up your film regardless of what everyone else thinks, and they also drive a lot of the traffic online, and sort of spread the hype machine to the more casual fans. So you don't really want them to fall out of love with your product, or worse, run around bad mouthing it to people, and Rian Johnson doesn't exactly appear to have earned himself the benefit of the doubt with them here with TLJ. Better to play it safe and hire someone else, at least for the purposes of writing, and producing. I actually think he did a beautiful job directing for the most part, but depending on how this plays out it might be best to just remove him from the project all together.



Angelus said:
thismeintiel said:
I'm going to go through and respond to a few posts in a minute, but I just wanted to give an update. Seems my prediction of it seeing a decent drop is proving true.

TFA did dropped just over 11% going from Sat to Sun, making $60.6M. From Sun to Mon, it dropped 34%, making $40.1M. Now, if we look at TLJ, it dropped 20% going from Sat to Sun, making $51.3M. And dropped a massive 58% from Sun to Mon, making $21.6M. Wonder if Disney is going to end up regretting turning SW into a Marvel film (again, I love the Marvel films, just not every movie should be turned into one, especially Star Wars) and are going to reconsider letting Rian Johnson making his own trilogy after this one.

It might be a bit difficult to accurately determine that any drop in performance compared to TFA is purely - or at all for that matter - due to some fan backlash at this point. That's not to say fan backlash, especially depending on the scale, should be ignored. However, this drop could just as well be about what people thought of TFA, rather than what they think of TLJ. After all, TFA was a fresh start, and everybody - hardcore fans and casual movie audience alike - was interested to see where they might go with it. What would Star Wars away from George Lucas look like? Many of them may have simply decided they (still) don't care for it upon seeing it. The film has also aged quite poorly in many people's eyes, where they originally loved it on first viewing, it's stock has since gone downhill for them. 

That said, I do agree with you that Disney might wanna think twice about letting Rian Johnson oversee a whole trilogy of his own. The hardcore fanbase is important, because those are usually the people who will go prop up your film regardless of what everyone else thinks, and they also drive a lot of the traffic online, and sort of spread the hype machine to the more casual fans. So you don't really want them to fall out of love with your product, or worse, run around bad mouthing it to people, and Rian Johnson doesn't exactly appear to have earned himself the benefit of the doubt with them here with TLJ. Better to play it safe and hire someone else, at least for the purposes of writing, and producing. I actually think he did a beautiful job directing for the most part, but depending on how this plays out it might be best to just remove him from the project all together.

Well, the drop in what it makes in its first weekend was always to be expected, considering the amount of hype garnered by TFA being the first SW in a long time.  No, what I'm looking at is the percentage of the drop.  Even if the dollar amounts are lower, if the film was well received, it would have had similar drops.   Granted, the real test will come this weekend.  We'll have to see if it drops the ~40% TFA did, the ~50% JW and Avengers (movies BOM is comparing it to) dropped, or if it's going to be worse, like 55%-60%.  Anything beyond 60% would be a disaster.



The Last Jedi was a very good film in my opinion, better than The Force Awakens, although I liked that too, and better than the prequel trilogy as well. As far as the complains I've heard, Luke had always been a character who overcorrected on his mistakes and acted on instinct, so him becoming despondent over his failure to recreate the Jedi order seems perfectly in line with how he always was.

As for Rey being a Mary Sue, not even close. Being a Mary Sue is not just about having power or abilites, but being perfect and not having a clear personality and flaws, and Rey is not even close to being that. She's overeager, slef-absorbed, shortsighter refuses to acknowledge her own past despite seemingly having always known deep down about her past, acts without thinking things through, and even hates herself and her origin to a certain extent.



TruckOSaurus said:

I agree with most complaints on here and I think the root of it all is Rian Johson not wanted to follow up on the loose ends intentionally left by Abrams. He actually said he didn't want to direct somebody's sequel and it shows. Not only does he mishandle plot points from TFA, he also doesn't seem to be interested in setting up the final episode.

Rian does carry some of the blame, but not all.  Abrams was a producer on this film, so I'm sure he also had some say in it.  He's also praised the script publicly after he read it.  Disney also carried some blame for allowing him to just drop things, if that is what actually happened.  They probably let him do whatever as long as he delivered more cute animals to push sales.

Nymeria said:

My heart breaks for Mark, he looked in shock after seeing it.  He did express his concerns before on multiple occasions about how they handled Luke.

Damn, that's hard to watch.  It's like his soul died a little seeing how they let Luke go out like that.

OTBWY said:
41: The Luke shoulder swipe.
42: Snope's body falling and his tongue out like some cartoon.
43: What are all the other first order ships doing?
44: If Luke didn't want to be found, how come there was a map?
45: Stupid salt foxes. It was all CG. I don't care that they had some puppet model they didn't use. It was CG.
46: 75% of all fighter pilots are female. If this isn't gender politics, I don't know what is.
47: Dumb island nun aliens.
48: Over reliance on trinkets. The cubes, the yin-yang, the rebel insignia ring.
49: Walkers do nothing. They just walk and then stand. Oh, they shoot at ghost Luke. Wow.
50: Why didn't loldo just tell Poe what they were going to do?

43: Another huge plot hole.  You're telling me that they couldn't have signaled to another ship the exact coordinates of the rebel's ship, had them lightspeed a mere inches/feet away from it, then blow it to smithereens?  That's why the ship thing would only make sense if it was a, at max, 20 min scene that played out in realtime, like it would have been in the OG trilogy.  Not the entire plot of the movie, where the NO had 18 hours to figure out how to destroy them.

47: See, this is something that could have been forgiven if the remainder of the film was great.  As is, it's just another scene trying hard to be funny.  Though, it was one of the few "funny" scenes that got a little chuckle out of me.

49:  Another huge letdown.  Why invent brand new vehicles for no other reason than to have them sit there and look cool.  There was no point to having them over the normal AT-ATs.  What should have happened is that they only had the normal walkers, but as the rebels are escaping, all of a sudden the Ape ones start going over the mountain,as I assume that's why they have hands.  And this should have been the reveal that Phasma had survived, as she would have been piloting the main one.

Mandalore76 said:

 

34.  Exactly.  If he was just going to die from exhaustion from doing that, then have him actually go there, and go out like a hero, not a bitch.  It was even hinted at, since they specifically decided to show his X-Wing under water.

36.  That was really cringe inducing.  They wanted to have their own Hoth, but it's totally not Hoth if it's salt instead of snow.  Right?  Right?

And I do agree with you that this was basically them trying to make Star Wars more like Marvel.  Don't get me wrong, I love the Marvel films.  But, that's just it, they are the Marvel films.  Their own thing.  They aren't Star Wars, nor should Star Wars be them.  I guess Disney saw that the Marvel films were making more money off of toy sales than the last SW film, so they wanted to try to correct that.  In doing so, though, they are going to make quite a bit less money at the box office with this film compared to TFA.

I didn't like that they ended Luke's character they way they did, but I won't say that the way it was done doesn't make sense.  If Luke had physically gone there, Kylo's AT-AT's would have obliterated him on the spot and would not have bought the Rebels any time.  Kylo feared Luke and wanted The First Order to kill him for him before having to attempt a face to face confrontation.  So in that sense, a force projection ruse by Luke makes sense.  It was disappointing to see him disappear afterwards, but again it makes sense that a manipulation of the force on that level would have strained his lifeforce to the point of breaking.  Besides, he did successfully buy time for the Rebels to escape.  And he gave up the last of his lifeforce to do so.  How does that make him go out like a bitch instead of a hero?  (Mind you, I'm not gung ho about what happened, I just disagree with your interpretation of that specific sequence)

And yeah, Disney definitely was leaning towards their Marvel tendencies with this film more than being true to Star Wars.  And by Marvel, I mean their post Guardians of the Galaxy tendencies, because not all Disney Marvel films have been this over the top with humor before GotG.  The original Guardians was a great family movie and a lot of fun.  Unfortunately, ever since then, Disney has been trying to over apply this to all of their films ever since.  Even in the sequel to Guardians it seemed like they were pushing it too hard with jokes that were supposed to be huge laughs but weren't, or were out of place.  I didn't enjoy the first 1/3 of The Last Jedi, because it felt more like a parody of Star Wars than an actual Star Wars film.  I like to laugh as much as the next person, but that's what Family Guy, Robot Chicken, and SNL are for.  A funny quip here and there can be used to great effect.  But on this level, it's like Disney is lampooning Star Wars within it's own universe.

I agree with the 2nd paragraph.  As for the first, it was like a bitch because, again, he didn't really do anything.  He made an image, which I guess gave them time to evacuate, even though they had plenty of time when Po, Finn, and Rose went out on those shitty sand/salt vehicles, and then he faded away.  IF he was going to die, he should have just showed up.  It would have been more impactful if he did.   Not just fade away, without really helping the rebellion, and no one around to mourn him (on a side note, isn't it funny how Solo died like a few days/weeks ago, yet no one seems to give a shit, not even Chewy.)  Again, leaving them with his problem.  Hell, he could have showed up and projected himself while in the base, instead of killing himself by doing it lightyears away.

If it was me, I would change what made him this way.  Personally, I wouldn't have him this way, but just for argument sake.  He should have gone there to try to find some new insight into the Force, to try to find the strength to take down Snoke, Kylo, and the Knights of Ren.  He should have learned something earth shattering about the Jedi counsel that destroyed his image of the Jedi in general.  He's going to just live the remainder of his life on the island away from people, until someone uses his map to find him.  Maybe he resists at first, but he eventually accepts that Kylo and the Knights of Ren were his doing, even though unintentional, so he must face them.  I think he should have died in an epic battle against his former students.  Something that could have been Kylo's turning point back to good.  Or if he had already turned, Luke and Kylo take down the KOR together, but then Luke is mortally wounded by Snoke.  Kylo and Snoke have a showdown, either right after or maybe in the next film.

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 19 December 2017