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Forums - General Discussion - ‘I have no idea what I saw’: Pentagon admits to secret UFO hunting program

CrazyGamer2017 said:

As for the speed of light, even with our limited human knowledge, scientists discuss of theoretical means to go faster than light because astrophysicists have realized (actually since Einstein) that the universe is relative and that space time can be bent and even torn. We don't have the knowledge and technology to do that ourselves but a super advanced civilization could. So we cannot go faster than light using conventional ways like propulsion because the amount of energy needed to reach the speed of light is equal to infinite. But that's only part the puzzle, not all of it.

You are just grasping at straws. It is completely irrelevant how far advanced a possible species might be. If they came to us, they'd have to follow OUR laws of physics in OUR back garden. Those are basically based on two theories, Quantum Physics and General Relativity. QP is the most solid and successful theory that has ever existed (on GR, there possibly still is some leeway), and those two theories tell us: Sorry, no aliens in our backyards. (Strangely, those aliens seem to have a knack of rectally probing middle aged, overweight, possibly sexually frustrated white american women living in small town , if we go by the plethoria of "alien contact "reports).

Now you can dream up Star Trek "science" as much as you like, but here's the truth for you: It's only a TV series. Without gimmiks like warp drives, transporters, phasers, there would not have been a show. As for bending space and wormholes and all that stuff, yes physics can calculate theoretical solutions to overcome the speed of light. They all come down to completely, absolutely ridiculous amounts of energy required.

So why all the fuss about meeting aliens in backyards? Well books sell (much easier than "boring science books"), and there is a large circus wagon train selling those books to the gullible.



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drkohler said:

You are just grasping at straws. It is completely irrelevant how far advanced a possible species might be. If they came to us, they'd have to follow OUR laws of physics in OUR back garden. Those are basically based on two theories, Quantum Physics and General Relativity. QP is the most solid and successful theory that has ever existed (on GR, there possibly still is some leeway), and those two theories tell us: Sorry, no aliens in our backyards. (Strangely, those aliens seem to have a knack of rectally probing middle aged, overweight, possibly sexually frustrated white american women living in small town , if we go by the plethoria of "alien contact "reports).

Now you can dream up Star Trek "science" as much as you like, but here's the truth for you: It's only a TV series. Without gimmiks like warp drives, transporters, phasers, there would not have been a show. As for bending space and wormholes and all that stuff, yes physics can calculate theoretical solutions to overcome the speed of light. They all come down to completely, absolutely ridiculous amounts of energy required.

So why all the fuss about meeting aliens in backyards? Well books sell (much easier than "boring science books"), and there is a large circus wagon train selling those books to the gullible.

Our laws of physics? You think the laws of physics we know only apply here? The laws of physics are universal. As for quantum physics and general relativity, it is precisely those laws of physics that make possible travel faster than light. It is already thought that some particles could travel faster than light and I'm not even talking about multi-dimensions thought possible through string theory and I won't even mention time travel which general relativity has proven to be a fact, relatively speaking.



drkohler said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

As for the speed of light, even with our limited human knowledge, scientists discuss of theoretical means to go faster than light because astrophysicists have realized (actually since Einstein) that the universe is relative and that space time can be bent and even torn. We don't have the knowledge and technology to do that ourselves but a super advanced civilization could. So we cannot go faster than light using conventional ways like propulsion because the amount of energy needed to reach the speed of light is equal to infinite. But that's only part the puzzle, not all of it.

You are just gr,asping at straws. It is completely irrelevant how far advanced a possible species might be. If they came to us, they'd have to follow OUR laws of physics in OUR back garden. Those are basically based on two theories, Quantum Physics and General Relativity. QP is the most solid and successful theory that has ever existed (on GR, there possibly still is some leeway), and those two theories tell us: Sorry, no aliens in our backyards. (Strangely, those aliens seem to have a knack of rectally probing middle aged, overweight, possibly sexually frustrated white american women living in small town , if we go by the plethoria of "alien contact "reports).

Now you can dream up Star Trek "science" as much as you like, but here's the truth for you: It's only a TV series. Without gimmiks like warp drives, transporters, phasers, there would not have been a show. As for bending space and wormholes and all that stuff, yes physics can calculate theoretical solutions to overcome the speed of light. They all come down to completely, absolutely ridiculous amounts of energy required.

So why all the fuss about meeting aliens in backyards? Well books sell (much easier than "boring science books"), and there is a large circus wagon train selling those books to the gullible.

so pretty much, you are claiming we have reached the pinnacle of our understanding of physics?

at a time where one of the biggest debates is over how inefficient our methods of transportation are

 

its thinking like this that caused people to burn witches back in the day



Flilix said:
Zoombael said:

That's not a good example. You know what your bed is comprised of, you can examine it thouroughly. How common life is in the Universe/Galaxy is something we don't know and can't say for certain, since we are incapable of observing and exploring adequatly.

To which extent can I trust my senses and my knowledge? I can think that my bed is made of wood, and I believe that wood can't move, but I can't be sure of either. It looks and feels like wood to me, but that idea is created in my head. I can never tell something with absolute certainty about the object itself. I can only tell things about how it appears to me. And even if it is actual wood, I can't know for sure if it's able to move or not. According to science it can't move, but I'm 'only' 99.9999...% sure that I can trust science.

You could argue that aliens visiting the earth is more likely than my bed moving, and that's probably true (although there's no way to actually calculate the likeliness). However, both are so unlikely that it makes absolutely no sense to believe either.

I told you where your error lies. I repeat, you do have a very clear picture what your bed contains, there are no unknown factors. It is a different story when it comes to science and the universe. However, you pretend you have the knowledge to determine how unlikely an extraterrestrial explorer is, that the human race is the pinnacle of intelligent life, we know all there is to know and we won't advance further - no matter the timeframe - 1 year, 1000 years, 10.000 years, that's it we are at the end of the line. Why pump money in all those sci fi technologies, if it's not going to lead anywhere? Sure, let's call it a day and be satisfied with what we have.

Hell, the universe propably doesn't exist anyway and we just imagine shit (including aliens).

https://futurism.com/cern-research-finds-the-universe-should-not-actually-exist/



Hunting Season is done...

Zoombael said:
Flilix said:

To which extent can I trust my senses and my knowledge? I can think that my bed is made of wood, and I believe that wood can't move, but I can't be sure of either. It looks and feels like wood to me, but that idea is created in my head. I can never tell something with absolute certainty about the object itself. I can only tell things about how it appears to me. And even if it is actual wood, I can't know for sure if it's able to move or not. According to science it can't move, but I'm 'only' 99.9999...% sure that I can trust science.

You could argue that aliens visiting the earth is more likely than my bed moving, and that's probably true (although there's no way to actually calculate the likeliness). However, both are so unlikely that it makes absolutely no sense to believe either.

I told you where your error lies. I repeat, you do have a very clear picture what your bed contains, there are no unknown factors. It is a different story when it comes to science and the universe. However, you pretend you have the knowledge to determine how unlikely an extraterrestrial explorer is, that the human race is the pinnacle of intelligent life, we know all there is to know and we won't advance further - no matter the timeframe - 1 year, 1000 years, 10.000 years, that's it we are at the end of the line. Why pump money in all those sci fi technologies, if it's not going to lead anywhere? Sure, let's call it a day and be satisfied with what we have.

Hell, the universe propably doesn't exist anyway and we just imagine shit (including aliens).

https://futurism.com/cern-research-finds-the-universe-should-not-actually-exist/

That's a bit of a hyperbole. Of course we're still pumping money in new technology because we aren't yet able to do stuff that we already know we can do. While we do see our limits right now we're still far away from even reaching that limit.

As I said before in this thread, assuming that there might be things possible that we don't think are possible today is not useful at all. It's just dreaming. If you want to assess reality you have to take the numbers and calculations you can do now. Or else you might as well assume that magic exists and throw all probabilities out of the window. That's just stupid. There are smarter people than us working to expand our understanding but right now it's best to roll with what we know and keep using the scientific method, which has never failed on us and has advanced our knowledge and understanding and will do so in the future.

By forgoing the scientific method we do all of science a disservice. I'd rather believe someone who says "it's highly unlikely because I did the math" than someone who says "it could easily be because of magic!" Because one of those people will advance our understanding even if he is wrong right now and the other one is rambling incoherent nonsense that will lead nowhere.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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Azuren said:
Flilix said:

I think there's very little we can be 100% sure of. I'd even argue that there isn't anything at all.

As unlikely as the existence of unicorns is, what about them would make them impossible? You didn't define 'magic', but it is technically possible that there are animals (whether they live on our planet or not) that have abilities that contradict our current scientific beliefs.

Scientists have proven that it's impossible to go faster than the speed of light. So unless the aliens are able to travel for thousands, maybe millions of years, it's not possible for them to reach us according to our scientific system.

Although everything is technically possible, we should not consider the possibility of all of these things. The chances of them being true are just way to small. Another example: my bed can suddenly start attacking me (because of reasons that I cannot understand, since I don't know absolutely everything that there is to know about our universe), but that doesn't mean that I need to be afraid of my bed (since I know enough about our universe to safely assume that the chances of this happening are extremely low).

Actually, it's impossible to reach the speed of light. One form of theoretical warp drive involves displacement at the exact point of light speed, allowing for a vessel to exit that displacement at FTL speeds.

 

Then there's the other type of warp drive that utilizes worm holes. No, you're not traveling faster than the speed of light, but you are traveling light-years at a time.

There's also an interesting space bending theory doing the rounds to potentially go ftl. Our race are dreamers!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive



vivster said:
Zoombael said:

I told you where your error lies. I repeat, you do have a very clear picture what your bed contains, there are no unknown factors. It is a different story when it comes to science and the universe. However, you pretend you have the knowledge to determine how unlikely an extraterrestrial explorer is, that the human race is the pinnacle of intelligent life, we know all there is to know and we won't advance further - no matter the timeframe - 1 year, 1000 years, 10.000 years, that's it we are at the end of the line. Why pump money in all those sci fi technologies, if it's not going to lead anywhere? Sure, let's call it a day and be satisfied with what we have.

Hell, the universe propably doesn't exist anyway and we just imagine shit (including aliens).

https://futurism.com/cern-research-finds-the-universe-should-not-actually-exist/

That's a bit of a hyperbole. Of course we're still pumping money in new technology because we aren't yet able to do stuff that we already know we can do. While we do see our limits right now we're still far away from even reaching that limit.

As I said before in this thread, assuming that there might be things possible that we don't think are possible today is not useful at all. It's just dreaming. If you want to assess reality you have to take the numbers and calculations you can do now. Or else you might as well assume that magic exists and throw all probabilities out of the window. That's just stupid. There are smarter people than us working to expand our understanding but right now it's best to roll with what we know and keep using the scientific method, which has never failed on us and has advanced our knowledge and understanding and will do so in the future.

By forgoing the scientific method we do all of science a disservice. I'd rather believe someone who says "it's highly unlikely because I did the math" than someone who says "it could easily be because of magic!" Because one of those people will advance our understanding even if he is wrong right now and the other one is rambling incoherent nonsense that will lead nowhere.

There is no hyperbole in what i wrote. You simply dont understand the implications. Knowledge and technology build up consecutively. What we learned  over two millenia ago we still use today. 

 

You re the one ignoring the scientific method, believing in an inadequate equation. Real scientist did the math, and what they found is the universe doesnt exist. Ergo, you believe in a magical non existent place called "our universe", the home of unicorns, fairies and FTL aliens.



Hunting Season is done...

Zoombael said:

There is no hyperbole in what i wrote. You simply dont understand the implications. Knowledge and technology build up consecutively. What we learned  over two millenia ago we still use today. 

You re the one ignoring the scientific method, believing in an inadequate equation. Real scientist did the math, and what they found is the universe doesnt exist. Ergo, you believe in a magical non existent place called "our universe", the home of unicorns, fairies and FTL aliens.

I don't understand that last paragraph.

I believe in what has been proven by the scientific method with our current understanding. And if that understanding changes one day, my belief will change as well because it is the only thing that is actually graspable. All new discoveries have been made by relying on current data, so it's only prudent to believe in current data until we gain new information and can properly update that data.

There is no point believing in things that cannot be understood yet. People thousands of years ago did that and they came up with religion and now we're stuck with that shit. Because people couldn't wait to understand and prove something before believing in it.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.