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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Palestine: Which "solution" do you prefer?

CrazyGamer2017 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Their land ? LOL, it wasn't the Jews to begin with since organized power first emerged under ancient Egypt and they haven't controlled Israel for a long time either since the last rule was British and the one before that was the Ottoman empire so how does it feel to know the possibility that the Turks have more right to reclaim Israel than the Jews themselves ?

Yeah except the Jews have been in that land for thousands of years and no matter what you say, this fact can never change (unless they find a way to change the past, oh wait, they do with a thing called revisionism)

But we have been down this argument already so yeah we'll just have to continue to disagree, that's all.

Revisionism isn't just "changing" the past, it's updating information to incorporate new discoveries and information that is brought to light. Yes, people lie about the past, but the thing is, the past doesn't change, it's merely our understanding of it that does.



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VGPolyglot said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Yeah except the Jews have been in that land for thousands of years and no matter what you say, this fact can never change (unless they find a way to change the past, oh wait, they do with a thing called revisionism)

But we have been down this argument already so yeah we'll just have to continue to disagree, that's all.

Revisionism isn't just "changing" the past, it's updating information to incorporate new discoveries and information that is brought to light. Yes, people lie about the past, but the thing is, the past doesn't change, it's merely our understanding of it that does.

Yeah, sometimes things need revised, when there is new evidence.  I agree there (I love me history).  

Now, Onto CrazyGamer's crazy assertion that organized power first emerged under ancient Egypt, is not completely true.  There are actually some older civilizations before them, but most people are not being taught them in schools (except in some history classes in college).  Also, the Jews, as well as other Semitic groups, lived in the Syria-Palenstine area (which was constantly assaulted by other nations in those days).  They eventually did leave the area, when the Romans expelled them because they were tired of dealing with them.  

But, with all that said, the real problem with that region is that it is at the mercy of Western politics, and the politicians do not give a damn about the people in that region, only getting elected and getting fat checks at home.



andrewclear said:

Yeah, sometimes things need revised, when there is new evidence.  I agree there (I love me history).  

Now, Onto CrazyGamer's crazy assertion that organized power first emerged under ancient Egypt, is not completely true.  There are actually some older civilizations before them, but most people are not being taught them in schools (except in some history classes in college).  Also, the Jews, as well as other Semitic groups, lived in the Syria-Palenstine area (which was constantly assaulted by other nations in those days).  They eventually did leave the area, when the Romans expelled them because they were tired of dealing with them.  

But, with all that said, the real problem with that region is that it is at the mercy of Western politics, and the politicians do not give a damn about the people in that region, only getting elected and getting fat checks at home.

Excuse me but I'm not the one who talked about organized power emerging first under ancient Egypt.

I don't mind you disagreeing with stuff I say but please at least make sure I said it. Kindly don't associate my name to what someone else said.



First.off the current « jews » occupying palestine are not jews! They are khazars, the khazars adopted the jewish religion because they were a smart people (still are) who wanted to rip the benefit of not having to pay tax and do certain business dealings not allowed in the area they lived in unless if you had another religion. Their territory was located between eastern europe and asia. Then in the 19 century came zionism, it emerged in central and eastern europe ( where those people are really from) as a reaction to antisemitism at the time. If you are looking for the hebrew (not the jews who only represented Judah) then you better look at the ethiopian jews they barely let in, they have been following the tora longer than the khazars have been around and also share blood with the bible hebrew. The Khazars were just an opportunistic people and still are to this day.

Last edited by Dwindle - on 19 December 2017

And the line into outright anti-Semitism has been crossed.

There is no historical basis for the Khazar claim. While the ruling class of the Khazars did convert to Judaism, historians have no idea if the populace as a whole did or not, or their descendants stayed Jewish after that kingdom fell.

The migratory history of the Jewish people in Europe is clear, on the other hand. Jews were living throughout Roman-controlled Europe before the Romans exiled the majority of Judea's population. The population that became known as the Ashkenazim spread northward from Italy into Germany and France. Ashkenaz is a term for Germany. The Jewish population of eastern Europe was relatively small until Poland invited Jews in in the 1300s and 1400s. At the time Poland was actually very hospitable to the Jews, who were being expelled from England, France, and Spain, and who had endured terrible massacres during the crusades. Jews flocked to Poland-from the west, not from Turkic lands. Even Sephardic Jews from Spain moved to Poland. That was when the eastern European Jewish population began to rise to prominence in numbers and centrality.

In addition, genetic testing has shown most Jewish populations around the world to be both related and originating from the Middle East, including the Ashkenazi population. There is also a distinct lack of any remnants of any Turkish or Khazar dialect in Yiddish, the language spoken by the Jews of eastern Europe. Yiddish combined Hebrew and the languages of their host countries, such as German and Polish, but contains no traces of any language associated with the Khazars.  It is possible that a small number of descendants of the Khazars joined the already-existing Jewish communities of Europe, but that is all.

The Khazar theory is a groundless and unscientific theory originally conceived in a misguided attempt to argue that anti-Semites shouldn't care about Jews since they aren't the Jews who supposedly killed Jesus, but it has instead become a justification for anti-Semitism, and any time the subject is brought up that is an immediate red flag of anti-Semitism.



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Dna tests do not lie, people do



CrazyGamer2017 said:

Yeah except the Jews have been in that land for thousands of years and no matter what you say, this fact can never change (unless they find a way to change the past, oh wait, they do with a thing called revisionism)

But we have been down this argument already so yeah we'll just have to continue to disagree, that's all.

So have the Christians and the Arabs but you didn't see them getting expelled so how does that grant them sovereignty over a territory over the others ? 

That's a FACT and your denialism won't change that either ...  

Birimbau said:

If the muslims were treated in Israel the same way christians/jews are treated in most muslim countries, they would be in jail or in the death row or be stoned in public.

Israel is a democracy and muslims that live there have freedom of religion, which doesn't exist in most muslim countries.

Denying that Jerusalem is their capital is like China that denies that Taiwan is an independent country.

Except China is in denial that Taiwan is an independent nation ...

That's why Taiwan isn't declaring independence from PRC and isn't recognized as a sovereign nation by the UN ...



fatslob-:O said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Yeah except the Jews have been in that land for thousands of years and no matter what you say, this fact can never change (unless they find a way to change the past, oh wait, they do with a thing called revisionism)

But we have been down this argument already so yeah we'll just have to continue to disagree, that's all.

So have the Christians and the Arabs but you didn't see them getting expelled so how does that grant them sovereignty over a territory over the others ? 

That's a FACT and your denialism won't change that either ...  

Birimbau said:

If the muslims were treated in Israel the same way christians/jews are treated in most muslim countries, they would be in jail or in the death row or be stoned in public.

Israel is a democracy and muslims that live there have freedom of religion, which doesn't exist in most muslim countries.

Denying that Jerusalem is their capital is like China that denies that Taiwan is an independent country.

Except China is in denial that Taiwan is an independent nation ...

That's why Taiwan isn't declaring independence from PRC and isn't recognized as a sovereign nation by the UN ...

It doesn't change the fact Taiwan is a full independent country. Staying in denial won't change reality.



Birimbau said:

It doesn't change the fact Taiwan is a full independent country. Staying in denial won't change reality.

Taiwan being a truly independent country has yet to be determined otherwise China wouldn't keep threatening the island with force ... 

The UN does not recognize Taiwan as such and in fact most nations see Taiwan to be a rogue province under the "one China policy" ... 

China so to speak has every right to be in denial when their trying to bring Taiwan under their full sovereignty ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Birimbau said:

It doesn't change the fact Taiwan is a full independent country. Staying in denial won't change reality.

Taiwan being a truly independent country has yet to be determined otherwise China wouldn't keep threatening the island with force ... 

The UN does not recognize Taiwan as such and in fact most nations see Taiwan to be a rogue province under the "one China policy" ... 

China so to speak has every right to be in denial when their trying to bring Taiwan under their full sovereignty ... 

Again, it doesn't chage reality. Only a military invasion of Taiwan killing million could change it.