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Forums - Politics Discussion - Australia legalizes same sex marriage

Ka-pi96 said: 
Pemalite said


One thing I hate more than an idiot... Is an idiot who denies science and that was Malcolm Roberts in a bag.

You have those in Australia? huh, I thought they were exclusive to America.

Definitely not America exclusive. Our last Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, is an outspoken climate change denier. As well as one of the leaders of the "Vote No" movement during the recent national postal survey on same sex marriage. His own sister is gay funnily enough.



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Was a bad decision, this country isn't ready for it yet. For something this huge, it should have been a majority favour, 80/85% minimum , not 60's. And with " safe schools" about to be introduced, or try to make it in the system, the fabric of society will change along with it. Where do you draw the line now? two years frm now we'll see transgender marriages, 5 years after that animal/ human marriages, like  what's begun to happen in other countries, and 15/20 yrs from now we'll have  AI robots with realistic features and people will be falling in love with them and yes, they'll have the right to a legal marriage. 

Last edited by KratosLives - on 10 December 2017

Azzanation said:

an evolutionist, than it all started out as incest from the very beginning.

Evidence for that assertion?

Azzanation said:

The problem is that because we are so vocal about gays being able to marry, I can see this becoming a trend for others to believe that they all have the right to marry. Hence why I use the term that gays use against straights. Love is Love, and it seems love comes in all shapes and sizes... and things. So what's next on the list, incest? pedolife? Bestiality?

Again I am not against gays, I voted yes for them and good on them, but damn I wont be saying love is love out to loudly or will be dealing with other scenarios at the office.

What you are proposing is a slippery slope argument which is a logical fallacy.

Pedophiles and Beastiality will NEVER be legalized. And there is a simple reason for it.
They cannot provide adult consent.

Incest is already legal in Australia up to a point and can already engage in marriage.

"Love is love" was the motto to counter all the hate and ridicule, to minimize the demonization. And it did work.
Don't turn it into something it's not.

curl-6 said:

Definitely not America exclusive. Our last Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, is an outspoken climate change denier. As well as one of the leaders of the "Vote No" movement during the recent national postal survey on same sex marriage. His own sister is gay funnily enough.

Tony Abbott always did remind me of the green goblin from Spiderman though.



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KratosLives said:

Was a bad decision, this country isn't ready for it yet. For something this huge, it should have been a majority favour, 80/85% minimum , not 60's. And with " safe schools" about to be introduced, or try to make it in the system, the fabric of society will change along with it. Where do you draw the line now? two years frm now we'll see transgender marriages, 5 years after that animal/ human marriages, like  what's begun to happen in other countries, and 15/20 yrs from now we'll have  AI robots with realistic features and people will be falling in love with them and yes, they'll have the right to a legal marriage. 

Interesting how transgenders is supposed to be considered a bad thing, I see nothing wrong with it. It's obvious though that your issue is not that the vote wasn't high enough (it's absurd though that non-gays are even the ones deciding if gays can marry), but gay marriage itself.



Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

an evolutionist, than it all started out as incest from the very beginning.

Evidence for that assertion?

Azzanation said:

The problem is that because we are so vocal about gays being able to marry, I can see this becoming a trend for others to believe that they all have the right to marry. Hence why I use the term that gays use against straights. Love is Love, and it seems love comes in all shapes and sizes... and things. So what's next on the list, incest? pedolife? Bestiality?

Again I am not against gays, I voted yes for them and good on them, but damn I wont be saying love is love out to loudly or will be dealing with other scenarios at the office.

What you are proposing is a slippery slope argument which is a logical fallacy.

Pedophiles and Beastiality will NEVER be legalized. And there is a simple reason for it.
They cannot provide adult consent.

Incest is already legal in Australia up to a point and can already engage in marriage.

"Love is love" was the motto to counter all the hate and ridicule, to minimize the demonization. And it did work.
Don't turn it into something it's not.

curl-6 said:

Definitely not America exclusive. Our last Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, is an outspoken climate change denier. As well as one of the leaders of the "Vote No" movement during the recent national postal survey on same sex marriage. His own sister is gay funnily enough.

Tony Abbott always did remind me of the green goblin from Spiderman though.

I think that's you're missing Azzanation's point. There's a growing pro-pedophilia movement that's trying to ride the coattails of LGBT (to be included in the umbrella term and become associated with that movement). There's also people who are into bestiality and incest that are also trying the same thing. They try to mirror any of the their talking points or slogans. The LGBT would be wise to counter that stuff. Alot of people are cool with gays and can accept them but there's a line with the other stuff. 



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KratosLives said:

Was a bad decision, this country isn't ready for it yet. For something this huge, it should have been a majority favour, 80/85% minimum , not 60's. And with " safe schools" about to be introduced, or try to make it in the system, the fabric of society will change along with it. Where do you draw the line now? two years frm now we'll see transgender marriages, 5 years after that animal/ human marriages, like  what's begun to happen in other countries, and 15/20 yrs from now we'll have  AI robots with realistic features and people will be falling in love with them and yes, they'll have the right to a legal marriage. 

The line is drawn with consent that doesn't harm anyone else. Simple



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Pemalite said:
Locknuts said:

Wow ok so I should be able to clear this up pretty quickly: I don't want the government involved in my marriage and I don't want to give them any more power than they already have. A major part of what makes me conservative is that I want small government. I believe that the government is already so big and powerful that our current system is unsustainable and thus: broken.

Any opportunity to give the government more power than the unsustainable amount they already have will be met with a 'no' vote from me. Whether it's involving them further with people's relationships or increasing handouts, it's always a no until the government is small enough.

Changing the entire legal and legislative structure for marriage because you don't agree with it... Is not "Conservative" by it's very definition as you are advocating change from a precedent that has already existed for hundreds of years and works fine as it is.

Besides... Australia is a secular nation, religion should have less power and influence over aspects of Australia, not more.
Well. Not until they can actually prove their particular deity exists anyway... And after thousands of years, that hasn't occurred.

Well I believe in minimum government necessary. Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I will fight change under all circumstances. In fact I will embrace change if it means giving the government less power over people's lives. It rarely seems to go that way though.

I was thinking today about the stolen generation and how the solution was not to allow the government to take children from white families, but instead to stop government interference in people's relationships, because even when the government means well, they usually get it wrong. The more power they have: the more damage they do.

On the issue of religious institutions having power, their power would only be cultural in nature. A separation of church and state ensures that there cannot be legal punishments for religious 'sins'. I don't want government influencing our nations' culture. The culture should develop naturally and government should simply represent those views. I could get into the ways in which christian values have improved western society, but that's a topic for another time. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of an actual God, but that doesn't mean his teachings weren't incredibly important in shaping the civilisation with the highest standards of living and longest life expectancy in human history.



Aeolus451 said:

I think that's you're missing Azzanation's point. There's a growing pro-pedophilia movement that's trying to ride the coattails of LGBT (to be included in the umbrella term and become associated with that movement). There's also people who are into bestiality and incest that are also trying the same thing. They try to mirror any of the their talking points or slogans. The LGBT would be wise to counter that stuff. Alot of people are cool with gays and can accept them but there's a line with the other stuff. 

I am not missing his point.
Pedophilia, Beastiality and Incest have nothing to do with Homosexuality and thus should be treated as such.

Two of those things do not account for Adult consent and thus will NEVER be socially acceptable or legalized in Australian law.
Slippery slope logical fallacies should not be something that is taken seriously.

Locknuts said:

Well I believe in minimum government necessary. Just because I am conservative doesn't mean I will fight change under all circumstances. In fact I will embrace change if it means giving the government less power over people's lives. It rarely seems to go that way though.

I tend to be on the center-left of the political spectrum.
And I would also believe in minimum government.

However... I would rather the Government have control of legislation/law than religion who have a bloody and abusive history, which in some parts of the world continue to even this day.

Smaller Government I think is something that everyone can get behind, especially if it removes bureaucratic bloat.

Locknuts said:

I was thinking today about the stolen generation and how the solution was not to allow the government to take children from white families, but instead to stop government interference in people's relationships, because even when the government means well, they usually get it wrong. The more power they have: the more damage they do.

The stolen generation and same-sex marriage aren't even in the same context though.
The stolen generation was about the destruction of families.

But you are correct that the Government shouldn't have interfered to such a degree.

Locknuts said:

On the issue of religious institutions having power, their power would only be cultural in nature. A separation of church and state ensures that there cannot be legal punishments for religious 'sins'.

Yeah nah. That's a fools errand. The Church is an extremely powerful entity and will exert influence anyway it can.
You would actually need the Government to step in and regulate the church even more heavily than it does currently, which erodes on your other desire for a smaller Government.

And none of that changes the fact that you did vote no... Which means you don't wish for all Australians to be treated and seen as equals within the eyes of the current law framework.

Locknuts said:

I don't want government influencing our nations' culture. The culture should develop naturally and government should simply represent those views

Our Government is part of our Culture, it's been an influencer of Australian culture for centuries, why should that change? That's not very conservative of you. :P

For example... The New South Wales Government owns the Sydney Opera House, which is a massive cultural landmark in Australia, would Australia be better off culturally if that building was never built? Think about it.
And think about how often that building is referenced in movies, tv and music and other forms of media. (Independence Day for example.)

Locknuts said:

I could get into the ways in which christian values have improved western society, but that's a topic for another time. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of an actual God, but that doesn't mean his teachings weren't incredibly important in shaping the civilisation with the highest standards of living and longest life expectancy in human history.

I don't believe in any of the theistic accounts outlined in the Bible as it comes into contradiction with many scientific precedents.
But I do believe in the Australian Constitution and where it protects and supports the idea of Freedom of Religion and it's implied right of Freedom from Religion.

And you know what? There are nations which have never been strongly theistic which are advanced, developed nations... And there are dozens of nations that are extremely religious and have some of the worlds worst human-rights track records that will make your skin crawl.

Ergo. Religion is not a requirement for a country to be successful.
As for "Christian Values". - The Bible is just as bad as the Torah and Quran in my opinion... And thus I would argue they are actually immoral and in some extreme cases dangerous. - Thus I would hate for them to have any kind of complete control on ANY aspect of Australian society.



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Pemalite said:
Aeolus451 said:

I think that's you're missing Azzanation's point. There's a growing pro-pedophilia movement that's trying to ride the coattails of LGBT (to be included in the umbrella term and become associated with that movement). There's also people who are into bestiality and incest that are also trying the same thing. They try to mirror any of the their talking points or slogans. The LGBT would be wise to counter that stuff. Alot of people are cool with gays and can accept them but there's a line with the other stuff. 

I am not missing his point.
Pedophilia, Beastiality and Incest have nothing to do with Homosexuality and thus should be treated as such.

Two of those things do not account for Adult consent and thus will NEVER be socially acceptable or legalized in Australian law.
Slippery slope logical fallacies should not be something that is taken seriously.

Yes, you are.

At the moment, pedophilia, bestiality and incest have nothing to do with gays but it will if those groups have their way. They want to be included in LGBT. It how's transsexualism and homosexuality have something to do with each other. Any acceptance of them or laws made on the behalf of LGBT is shared between the groups under that umbrella term. It's why they want to be included into it. I'm not really making a slippery slop argument. There's people that are pushing for pedophilia, bestiality and incest to being made legal and being socially acceptable by having them associated/treated the same as LGBT. If that happens, good luck getting anymore laws passed related to LGBT. 

I'll play the devil's advocate about the slippery slope not being a logical fallacy using what we're talking about. Yesterday, we were discussing accepting transsexuals, now we're talking about if trans-age, trans-racial, trans-species, non-binary, etc are a real thing. I'm not against transsexuals btw. 



Aeolus451 said:

Yes, you are.

At the moment, pedophilia, bestiality and incest have nothing to do with gays but it will if those groups have their way.

No. YOU aren't getting it! Those groups CANT get "their way". - You are making a false assertion.

Something that is blatantly illegal as it destroys the lives of children will NEVER be legal, because of stupidly obvious reasons.
1) It's abuse.
2) It's abuse.
3) It's abuse.
Get it now? Abuse is illegal.

Aeolus451 said:
They want to be included in LGBT.

Stiff shit. They aren't.

Aeolus451 said:
It how's transsexualism and homosexuality have something to do with each other. Any acceptance of them or laws made on the behalf of LGBT is shared between the groups under that umbrella term.

Yeah, nah. You don't have much of an idea on LGBTQI issues it seems.
Trans is a gender issue. So is Intersex.
Homosexuality, Bisexuality and so on is a sexuality issue.

All are represented equally under the rainbow.

Aeolus451 said:
I'm not really making a slippery slop argument.

You ARE making a slippery slope argument.

You are asserting that by legalizing same-sex marriage... Things like Pedophilia, Bestiality and so on will become legalized.
THAT is a slippery slope argument and THAT is a logical fallacy. Which means it's flatout wrong.

Aeolus451 said:
 There's people that are pushing for pedophilia, bestiality and incest to being made legal and being socially acceptable by having them associated/treated the same as LGBT. If that happens, good luck getting anymore laws passed related to LGBT. 

And? A few nut jobs pushing for something doesn't mean it's ever going to be legal. And those same nut jobs would have pushed for the same thing regardless if same-sex marriage was legal or not.
I mean there are flat-earth conspiracy theorists who wish for the globe-earth model to no longer be taught in schools in favor of the flat-earth model, not only are they complete and utter morons... But it's never going to happen. Period.

You need to live in the real world, not conspiracy theories, what-if scenarios, baseless fear mongering is well... Baseless.

Besides, a group of child and animal abusers is NO excuse for denying same-sex marriage to LGBTQI people... And obviously Australia (And most of the industrialized world) seems to agree.

Aeolus451 said:
I'll play the devil's advocate about the slippery slope not being a logical fallacy using what we're talking about.

You can pretend it is whatever you want. But it is certainly a slippery slope argument and a logical fallacy and thus nonsensical and thus something I cannot possible adhere to.

Aeolus451 said:
Yesterday, we were discussing accepting transsexuals, now we're talking about if trans-age, trans-racial, trans-species, non-binary, etc are a real thing. I'm not against transsexuals btw.

Transexuals have always existed. They have always been represented in the LGBT community, why you are even going on about them beats me. They have nothing to do with your prior Pedophilia or Bestiality claims/examples.

I mean think about it. (The original lettering)
L = Lesbian.
G = Gay.
B = Bi-Sexual.
T = Trans.

(More modern additions.)
Q = Queer.
I = Intersex.





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