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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Breath of the Wild is a great game, but a not-so-great Zelda experience (Mild spoilers)

I sort of agree. I'm hoping on a BotW sequel with more traditional Zelda stuff.

However, I don't think that would make the game any better. I just don't want the old Zelda to die.



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Wright said:
OTBWY said:

No. For one single reason: In BotW you don't have to upgrade or anything else to beat the game, in Zelda II you absolutely do. You're basically comparing a true open world game to a linear one.

And besides, nothing really says you have to do the dungeons in BotW, unless you really want to. That also pretty much separates it more from Zelda II.

Whether the games are linear or open world doesn't take away from a RPG feeling, in my opinion. As far as I've played, Vagrant Story for the PS1 is extremely linear, especially in comparison to other PS1 RPGs, but it's still a RPG by heart. Link's Adventure might be linear and Breath of the Wild might be entirely open, but I did feel a RPG vibe from both. Lesser on the later, but still.

You're forced to upgrade once in BotW, as well as forced to undertake four shrines at the very start of the game, and learn how to use buffs/specific clothing for a certain area. You also have to take a small choice of what path to upgrade at the very start of the game because of the forced upgrade. I know, this is merely limited to the tutorial area of the game and does not strictly represent the rest of the experience, but just wanted to point it out.

If you can't separate them as a linear and open world game, then I don't know what to say. The second part is a reach and a nitpick. The first area serves as an intro and a tutorial. You can finish the game in 45 minutes including the intro. You still can't compare them.



OTBWY said:

If you can't separate them as a linear and open world game, then I don't know what to say. The second part is a reach and a nitpick. The first area serves as an intro and a tutorial. You can finish the game in 45 minutes including the intro. You still can't compare them.

I mean, when I replied to you, I meant in terms of the RPG angle we were discussing, since that's the part you bolded when you replied back and what I assumed you were pointing at. Obviously I can tell the big difference between the linearity and open-world aspect of one or another, that's something I've admitted as well. My whole reply came with the RPG part, which is why I quoted Vagrant Story, and why I assumed you were making a distinction for RPGs in regards of them being open world or not.

EDIT: it's also why I pointed out the tutorial area. Because it makes you taste the RPG aspect of it, in terms of having to upgrade the hero and choose his path, and also experience wind-resistance buffs through food or clothes, even if the rest of the game makes this entirely optional.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Glad you enjoyed it!

Yes, it's unlike Zelda 1992-2013. No, I don't think that's a bad thing per se.

I mean, I adore A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, and The Wind Waker. I love that modern Zelda formula where you get a particular item in a themed dungeon, and with that item defeat the dungeon boss. It's a great formula that's made The Legend of Zelda the best video series of all time.

But a Zelda game doesn't need to conform to that standard to be great. The strength of BotW comes from its emergent gameplay, and from the way it encourages players to experiment with tool sets, enemy AI, and the game's physics and chemistry engines. It's all about freedom: freedom to experience a story or skip it; freedom to finish the dungeons; freedom to explore optional shrines; freedom to cook, or hunt, or collect, or ride a horse into the sunset.

BotW's dungeons and boss fights are on the weak side -- minus Hyrule Castle, which is spectacular -- but it makes up for those flaws in so many other ways.

I'm not going to talk about my opinion on the game, but let me interject a bit here. I understand that Wright's first few paragraphs are literally him saying that this isn't like other Zelda games and that he wants that Zelda charm, but a reply like this just feels like a way to shut down criticism. Wright's complaints don't really have as much to do with it not being Zelda enough and more to do with the fact that the substitutes for those Zelda elements are lacking in quality. At least in the way he explained it. These criticisms would stand with or without the gaming being a Zelda game. Being part of that franchise just makes more comparisons validated.



Wright said:
OTBWY said:

If you can't separate them as a linear and open world game, then I don't know what to say. The second part is a reach and a nitpick. The first area serves as an intro and a tutorial. You can finish the game in 45 minutes including the intro. You still can't compare them.

I mean, when I replied to you, I meant in terms of the RPG angle we were discussing, since that's the part you bolded when you replied back and what I assumed you were pointing at. Obviously I can tell the big difference between the linearity and open-world aspect of one or another, that's something I've admitted as well. My whole reply came with the RPG part, which is why I quoted Vagrant Story, and why I assumed you were making a distinction for RPGs in regards of them being open world or not.

EDIT: it's also why I pointed out the tutorial area. Because it makes you taste the RPG aspect of it, in terms of having to upgrade the hero and choose his path, and also experience wind-resistance buffs through food or clothes, even if the rest of the game makes this entirely optional.

Well, my response was that whatever RPG's elements they both have, it really doesn't matter because the two games are separate with one being open world and the other linear. That means that whatever RPG elements BotW has, it isn't necessary to beat the game. In Zelda II, it absolutely is needed to beat the game. That is why the RPG part of the argument went that way. The tutorial area argument is a moot point since I already explained that since you can beat the game right after that area.



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In my opinion it was the worst Zelda game ever. I stopped playing after 14 hours or so. There were far to many temples with not overly difficult puzzles. Some enemies were seriously over powered killing you in just a couple of hits. The story progression was very slow and it felt too much like hard work. It is the only Zelda game I've given up on.

Still I have to praise the level design. The environments were great but that wasn't enough to grip me.



Nothing to live for but I like it that way. 

Even though I do agree that this isn't the best Zelda experience specifically, I'm glad they tried to change things up. By Skyward Sword, I was sick to death of the formula. I couldn't even get through that game. Sure, there were things in BOTW that could be improved, but I had a lot more fun with it than I would have if they made a more traditional Zelda game.



I just wish linear Zelda could coexist with this open-world one since I never cared much about the overworld in Zelda games and I also never asked for crafting/survival/durability elements in them.

Why should one replace the other when they're completely different experiences?



OTBWY said:

Well, my response was that whatever RPG's elements they both have, it really doesn't matter because the two games are separate with one being open world and the other linear. That means that whatever RPG elements BotW has, it isn't necessary to beat the game. In Zelda II, it absolutely is needed to beat the game. That is why the RPG part of the argument went that way. The tutorial area argument is a moot point since I already explained that since you can beat the game right after that area.

I guess I didn't see the distinction to be that abroad between both. Especially when I still feel like they're the two odd entries in the franchise, and with other noticeable similarities despite the strinking different approach to its linearity/non-linearity (The return of Ganon, Zelda's state, regaining lives through sleeping in towns/item usage, attack techniques, overworld being full with towns, citizens and dungeons, optional sidequests for similar rewards, unscripted and avoidable overworld encounters, and some more examples). We're probably looking at these two from different approachs, though.

I should fully play the first Zelda one of these days.



Wright said:
SvennoJ said:

The game is best when you simply set out in one direction and see what you'll find.

Until you beat the Yiga's headmaster. Then oh Hylia goddess save my soul with dem katana-wielding ninjas. Those sure were bloodthirsty fuckers claiming for revenge.

Ugh, don't remind me, it never ended. I must have killed at least a hundred of them, then I simply outran them with full stamina. I don't want your windcleaver! Luckily they took breaks now and then or perhaps it depended on the region how much they harassed you. I did the Yiga hideout quite early in game :(