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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
Slownenberg said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

Promoting Growth and Making Growth are 2 different things.

Trump promotes the idea of American growth, but for the most part he keeps his hands off it minus tax decreases, which encourages businesses to move back. Will it MAKE them do it? No, but considering most Americans don't want to be paid the wages that are made in China, it's about all we can do. Obama kept his hands off, but he never really promoted companies to come back, instead touting a future for America that's likely more than 50 years away. That's why it took so long to get out of the recession, because he touted a world that wasn't yet feasible, and as such unreachable.

FDR made growth, and if it wasn't for WWII, we'd be fucked. FDR made temporary policies he thought would last forever, which is a big mistake. His biggest mistake? Social Security. It made sense when no one knew how to save money, but now it's over half what we pay towards the budget, so we really cant do anything.

You are wayyyy off on social security. Most people still don't know how to save money. Sure the average white collar worker making as much or more than the average 4 person family shouldn't have a problem saving for retirement, but that isn't most people. Without social security there would be a lot more older people on the streets. I don't know where you got the idea that social security was a temporary policy, it was made for the long haul, to help people have money when they retire because quite frankly people are bad at saving money because spending money is easier than saving money. Social security costs a lot sure, but its entirely paid for by social security taxes, it doesn't take anything else away from the budget. Social Security is simply the recognition that tens of millions of poor and working class people, hell even middle class people, will be broke and homeless people when they are old without some government mandated safety net. Social Security has been and continues to be a roaring success for America. The only current problem is the baby boom generation is retiring which will create an imbalance between the input and output of the program, though that is certainly a fixable thing by changing some variables if politicians ever get up the nerve to do it.

 

Also your assessment of Obama seems way off base as well. Obama enacted measured policies to promote consistent growth, not a boom leading to another bust. And look at that we've had the longest period of continuous growth in US history. Of course now with Trump we've got huge tax giveaways to the rich combined with budget busting increases in spending combined with deregulation to take unbuckle the safety belt of the American economy, so a crash is now coming with the irresponsible and undisciplined Trump strategy of shoveling on debt during a time when we need it the least and over-heating the economy while starting trade wars to hurt America, while also personally attacking American companies (he's an idiot). Now thanks to Trump we're going to START the next recession at trillion-plus dollar deficits instead of reaching that point at the height of the recession. Trump is the answer to the question: how to make America burn?

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/report/the-historical-lessons-lower-tax-rates

Interesting read on the history of tax cuts. Tax cuts never mean a depression/recession will occur. 1920s were oversimplified in terms of prosperity in that there were a ton of poor people, but the rich worked in mostly business. As such when people stopped investing, the market crashed. This is likely the only time I have ever seen in history stocks directly effect the economy. Point is, tax cuts don't equal recession. You talk about how it only benefits the rich when in reality it helps nearly everyone. I was looking at my baseline salary for the future, and under the new standards I'd save like 5% a year starting out. In places like California it's all messed up because their laws are extremely overreaching, but more money in the wild equals more opportunity to invest

Also, Obama failed on the policy of enacting Social Programs like ACA. All that program is now is a bunch of people paying out the ass to maintain normal records and a bunch of poor people who don't have healthcare because it isn't priced reasonably. I don't like Time much anymore, but seeing how this alone is from 2016 only shows it's getting worse as time goes on.

http://time.com/money/4535394/obamacare-plan-premium-price-increases-2017-states/

And I am so tired of people saying 'well the economy grew under Obama'. No shit sherlock, we just went through a recession that was equivocal to the Great Depression. We could've had a hamster as a president and it still would have gone up. I HOPE we'd have record gains after record decreases. And you know the funny thing? You know what Obama did to start his presidency? Extend the Bush tax cuts to 2012. The only difference being the inheritance tax, which is sorta petty to me.

https://www.thebalance.com/obama-tax-cuts-3306330



Around the Network
Machiavellian said:
massimus said:

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trumps-deregulation-binge/

Some reading for you. There is my one, now it’s your turn. Which Obama’s policy was pro-economy? Name one.

That is a nice opinion article.  I personally would like to know where they get their figures from.  After reading the article I found another article where Trump cited these numbers.  Now maybe its just me but I always find it hard to believe anything that comes from Trump administration if not fact checked.  The last time someone from Trump sprouted numbers they were completely false.  

One of my problems with this article is that it does not tell you what actual regulations Trump and its administration actually either delayed or got rid of.  Here is a site that clears that up so we do not get hampared by overblown numbers but instead actual efforts.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

Now I have ready every one of these regulations Trump administration decided to put a hold on and I cannot say for myself I see this as a win.  A lot of them are environmental and we already have reports like this one where such changes seem more harm then good.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/epa-rollbacks-already-touching-americans-lives-045800944--politics.html

I am guess, because companies are making huge amounts of money and they probably continue to do so, giving them avenues to continue to make money at the expense of we the people may be seen as a win, but not in my book.  Anyway thats neither here or there and probably something to debate for another topic.

Here is an article I found, I believe some of their graphics were used in this same thread that is a counter to your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/14/comparing-the-trump-economy-to-the-obama-economy/?utm_term=.1429fc0473fa

Here is another one that gives another picture.  

https://www.ft.com/content/b5b764cc-d657-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Back at you.


Greenhouse Gas Emissions Measure
A rule requiring state departments of transportation to track and reduce carbon dioxide emissions on the national highway system

Corporate Average Fuel EcGreenhouse Gas Emissions Measure

A rule requiring state departments of transportation to track and reduce carbon dioxide emissions on the national highway systemonomy (CAFE) Standards for Model Year 2022-2025 Passenger Vehicles
Trump withdraw from Obama "environmental" regulations.


These are huge. The cafe standards have turned automobiles into pieces of shit. I deal with cars everyday. Getting rid of this regulation will save many lives. When you are trying to meet a certain fuel standard proposed by some idiots that think they will change the climate, it turns automobiles into 70 mph tin cans. Also getting rid of the "standard" opens up the market greatly. More choice is pro economy, maybe you want a bullet proof minivan that gets 10 miles to the gallon for when you pick your kids up at school. Why not? Someone will make it and someone will buy it. That second one is a huge relief to truckers that are ridiculously over-regulated. More driving = More products delivered and more workers on the road.

Net Neutrality

Like it or not, the repeal is pro-economy. I'm actually glad about it. As a person that believes in the market I couldn't care less if a corporation tries to scam someone. That's why we need alternatives and competition. You don't cry about corporate masters and then run to the government overloads. That's worst of them all, the government is where good ideas go to die. I don't care if the FCC is controlled by democrats or republicans, they have no authority to claim the internet. They are nowhere in the constitution, just some little pissant agency. Trying to say that some dusty ass phone landline law is precedent for a complete takeover. Screw that, this repeal is a righteous win for the internet in my book. The internet has never had a lot of regulation, that's why it was so successful. It was left alone. Now we're starting to understand what "pro-economic" means, right? A policy of getting the fuck out of the way and letting the market do it's thing. Simply put it's capitalism and let's be honest, that's the fight going on now. Anti-Capitalist non-sense.

That's a few and I could go on but you get the point, The numbers are there if you honestly look for it. If you have a specific regulation you disagree with then what is it? But seriously thank you for that link, it was interesting. There was stuff he repealed that even I was surprised by. And it is immediate results even though it's not full blown assault yet. He's getting the fuck out of the way and people are making more money. They need more workers to keep up with demand. More workers spend more money. You get demand with choice.  You ask about what Trump did to reach to investors and then reject the link i gave to you from investors.com lol.

You still haven't named any Obama policy that had the "get outta the way" philosophy. It's going to be hard to find one, that's why I asked lol. I could name many times Trump hasn't taken that philosophy like with the recent tariff move. That's getting in the way big time and I don't support it. That cost is put on the consumer. I guess you are a lot like Obama, no reflection, only deflection. You can't be bothered to take a minute and look at your own shitty policy because there are just too many other groups to trash lol. I can kinda respect that though, and I think that's why I like Trump. He's not on defense all of the time playing their stupid games like our current congress. He's offense, offense, offense like the left is. I wish more normal politicians were like that. Not just shit talking twitter trolls with their petty bullshit.

That yahoo link is laughable. The same old tired "no clean air or clean water" bullshit. States have their own EPAs, if california wants to ban that pesticide then ban the pesticide. Nothing is stopping them, it's just not illegal by federal regulation anymore. TRUMP killed 37  babies with apple orchard pesticide! The democrats have killed many more in more gruesome ways lol. Tax funded! Just follow the Hawaii example lol.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/hawaii-governor-signs-bill-making-hawaii-the-1st-state-to-ban-sunscreens-that-harm-coral-reefs/70005401.

The washington post and financial times are locked behind a paywall. You can quote the important parts if you want.

Current news:

Unemployment - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/155576000-employed-americans-june-10th-record-trumpcnsnewscom-our-economic

Here is all of the numbers even broken up by race. Trump has killed it in jobs in his first year and a half and all he had to do was get the fuck out of the way. - https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

LMAO! Dem minority leader! She's not the brightest bulb in the box. - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/democrats-blast-booming-jobs-report-trump-worker-agenda-reckless



I was disturbed today reading that they have kids, infants, that they don't know where they belong. What in the actual hell is this? They basically pure gross negligence of a higher degree than I was ready for.



SpokenTruth said:
Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States:

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-goes-on-nonsensical-rant-about-elton-john-organs-and-the-brain/

People were applauding Michelle Obama for giving a speech at a 12th grade reading level and I was like big deal.   And then I read this an I was like 'Ohhhhh'.  The reason politicians speak with a fourth to sixth grade reading level is because secretly they think, and sometimes justifiably so, that we are stupid.... but this is over the rainbow levels of stupid.



Should have followed the TelePrompter and stuttered more lmao. Was that from a rally? Lol. He says a lot of dumb shit there off the cuff. It’s obviously meant to light hearted. Hey look at all these job records I’m breaking! It’s not music, baseball, etc. They just posted his literal quote with all of the umm and uhh brain farts. It probably doesn’t sound as bad as it looks.



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TH3-D0S3R said:

Promoting Growth and Making Growth are 2 different things.

Trump promotes the idea of American growth, but for the most part he keeps his hands off it minus tax decreases, which encourages businesses to move back. Will it MAKE them do it? No, but considering most Americans don't want to be paid the wages that are made in China, it's about all we can do. Obama kept his hands off, but he never really promoted companies to come back, instead touting a future for America that's likely more than 50 years away. That's why it took so long to get out of the recession, because he touted a world that wasn't yet feasible, and as such unreachable.

FDR made growth, and if it wasn't for WWII, we'd be fucked. FDR made temporary policies he thought would last forever, which is a big mistake. His biggest mistake? Social Security. It made sense when no one knew how to save money, but now it's over half what we pay towards the budget, so we really cant do anything.

How many companies actually came back to America compared to taking that nice gift tax cut and guess what bought back their stock.  How many companies actually brought back all that money they have in other countries.  As was expected we got the nice little happy charge off bonus but it was back to business as usual once the media attention went elsewhere.  Its not like this was the first time tax cuts for business were done and each occasion they all did the same thing.  The current job report shows that the economy is still hot but salaries are stagnant and worst then 2017.  Meaning these companies did not raise salaries as was promised but instead just bought back their stock and paid their C level execs more money.  The tax cut was just another gift to the rich and as you will find out, listening to the talking points from these people is not doing your due diligence.  You have to keep up with what is happening to see the real picture,



massimus said:
Machiavellian said:

That is a nice opinion article.  I personally would like to know where they get their figures from.  After reading the article I found another article where Trump cited these numbers.  Now maybe its just me but I always find it hard to believe anything that comes from Trump administration if not fact checked.  The last time someone from Trump sprouted numbers they were completely false.  

One of my problems with this article is that it does not tell you what actual regulations Trump and its administration actually either delayed or got rid of.  Here is a site that clears that up so we do not get hampared by overblown numbers but instead actual efforts.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

Now I have ready every one of these regulations Trump administration decided to put a hold on and I cannot say for myself I see this as a win.  A lot of them are environmental and we already have reports like this one where such changes seem more harm then good.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/epa-rollbacks-already-touching-americans-lives-045800944--politics.html

I am guess, because companies are making huge amounts of money and they probably continue to do so, giving them avenues to continue to make money at the expense of we the people may be seen as a win, but not in my book.  Anyway thats neither here or there and probably something to debate for another topic.

Here is an article I found, I believe some of their graphics were used in this same thread that is a counter to your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/14/comparing-the-trump-economy-to-the-obama-economy/?utm_term=.1429fc0473fa

Here is another one that gives another picture.  

https://www.ft.com/content/b5b764cc-d657-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Back at you.


Greenhouse Gas Emissions Measure
A rule requiring state departments of transportation to track and reduce carbon dioxide emissions on the national highway system

Corporate Average Fuel EcGreenhouse Gas Emissions Measure

A rule requiring state departments of transportation to track and reduce carbon dioxide emissions on the national highway systemonomy (CAFE) Standards for Model Year 2022-2025 Passenger Vehicles
Trump withdraw from Obama "environmental" regulations.


These are huge. The cafe standards have turned automobiles into pieces of shit. I deal with cars everyday. Getting rid of this regulation will save many lives. When you are trying to meet a certain fuel standard proposed by some idiots that think they will change the climate, it turns automobiles into 70 mph tin cans. Also getting rid of the "standard" opens up the market greatly. More choice is pro economy, maybe you want a bullet proof minivan that gets 10 miles to the gallon for when you pick your kids up at school. Why not? Someone will make it and someone will buy it. That second one is a huge relief to truckers that are ridiculously over-regulated. More driving = More products delivered and more workers on the road.

So what you are saying you want to go back to a thick cloud of smog we use to have back in the 70s.  Did you forget about acid rain or have you forgotten about the current climate in China where some days you have to wear a mask because the air is so thick with pollution that you can barely breath.  Forget about changing the current climate, who the hell want to go back to those days or live in that kind of atmosphere.  Exactly how old are you, because it seems you have no experience why we have those regulations in place and why California is fighting for them not to go away because of past experience.
 

Net Neutrality

Like it or not, the repeal is pro-economy. I'm actually glad about it. As a person that believes in the market I couldn't care less if a corporation tries to scam someone. That's why we need alternatives and competition. You don't cry about corporate masters and then run to the government overloads. That's worst of them all, the government is where good ideas go to die. I don't care if the FCC is controlled by democrats or republicans, they have no authority to claim the internet. They are nowhere in the constitution, just some little pissant agency. Trying to say that some dusty ass phone landline law is precedent for a complete takeover. Screw that, this repeal is a righteous win for the internet in my book. The internet has never had a lot of regulation, that's why it was so successful. It was left alone. Now we're starting to understand what "pro-economic" means, right? A policy of getting the fuck out of the way and letting the market do it's thing. Simply put it's capitalism and let's be honest, that's the fight going on now. Anti-Capitalist non-sense.

As I figured, you would believe in the market.  You would be the one doing the scamming because there was no rule in place to him you in.  You would be the first exec to say throttle Netflix unless they pay us so much cash or you will make private deals with Hulu to give them max speeds while throttling everyone else because you have no deal in place.  I understand and I see where you are coming from.  Anything that is pro-economics, bring more money at the expense of consumers is ok.  Let the market work it out even though most telcos or cable companies have monopolies within certain areas. Hey, what is good for business is definitely good for the US..

That's a few and I could go on but you get the point, The numbers are there if you honestly look for it. If you have a specific regulation you disagree with then what is it? But seriously thank you for that link, it was interesting. There was stuff he repealed that even I was surprised by. And it is immediate results even though it's not full blown assault yet. He's getting the fuck out of the way and people are making more money. They need more workers to keep up with demand. More workers spend more money. You get demand with choice.  You ask about what Trump did to reach to investors and then reject the link i gave to you from investors.com lol.

Oh, I am positive you can go on and on.  I am sure you would be right there with Scott Pruit holding back research that could damage companies because it shows chemicals used within hundreds of products can cause cancer within consumers.  Hey, if its bad for business let make sure to suppress it.  I am sure you would be right there holding back that CDC report on the current standard of America water.  Another pesky report that would be bad for business that like to use pesticides close to drinkable water.  I am sure you would allow crops to use chemicals that no other countries will allow for their cancer causing effects, brain and fetal damage etc.  If our famers need it why stress them out with those silly regulations.  Hell, I am sure you would make a great employee under the Trump EPA.  Then you can get rid of all those pesky regulations that prevent business from making money.

You still haven't named any Obama policy that had the "get outta the way" philosophy. It's going to be hard to find one, that's why I asked lol. I could name many times Trump hasn't taken that philosophy like with the recent tariff move. That's getting in the way big time and I don't support it. That cost is put on the consumer. I guess you are a lot like Obama, no reflection, only deflection. You can't be bothered to take a minute and look at your own shitty policy because there are just too many other groups to trash lol. I can kinda respect that though, and I think that's why I like Trump. He's not on defense all of the time playing their stupid games like our current congress. He's offense, offense, offense like the left is. I wish more normal politicians were like that. Not just shit talking twitter trolls with their petty bullshit.

I do not have any policy from Obama that was "get out of the way".  I guess his administration was way to concerned with public health and consumers rights.  Oh well, one person savior another person killer.  Maybe if you were not so concerned about making money and actually knowing the impact of why a regulation was put into place, you wouldn't be so quick to champion stuff that might be beneficial to you outside of making money.  I personally do not like or hate Trump.  I just believe he is incompetent.  I really do not need to like the President, but I would like to be able to respect that they take the time to do their job.  With Trump, he always seem unprepared and that bothers me a lot.  Even if he made bad decisions if it was because he had wrong data or worked hard and came to the wrong conclusions I can see that but it looks like he does none of those things.

That yahoo link is laughable. The same old tired "no clean air or clean water" bullshit. States have their own EPAs, if california wants to ban that pesticide then ban the pesticide. Nothing is stopping them, it's just not illegal by federal regulation anymore. TRUMP killed 37  babies with apple orchard pesticide! The democrats have killed many more in more gruesome ways lol. Tax funded! Just follow the Hawaii example lol.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/hawaii-governor-signs-bill-making-hawaii-the-1st-state-to-ban-sunscreens-that-harm-coral-reefs/70005401.

The washington post and financial times are locked behind a paywall. You can quote the important parts if you want.

Current news:

Unemployment - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/155576000-employed-americans-june-10th-record-trumpcnsnewscom-our-economic

Nothing about this is any different then during the last 4 years of Obama term where there was regular 200K jobs in a month.

Here is all of the numbers even broken up by race. Trump has killed it in jobs in his first year and a half and all he had to do was get the fuck out of the way. - https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

LOL, since you give nothing to the previous administration, why would anyone give any to this one.  Its very easy to say that if Trump just sat on his hands things would have been the same since majority of how the countries goes takes years to shift and definitely not in a 1 1/2

LMAO! Dem minority leader! She's not the brightest bulb in the box. - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/democrats-blast-booming-jobs-report-trump-worker-agenda-reckless

You talking about bright bulbs but you support someone who barely can speak correctly is known to not read anything and sounds like a complete idiot most of the times yeah so what.



Why even bother responding? You didn’t say anything lol. And still haven’t named a pro-economic policy from Obama lmao! You are incapable of even starting the thought process, it’s hilarious. Attack, attack, attack!



massimus said:

Why even bother responding? You didn’t say anything lol. And still haven’t named a pro-economic policy from Obama lmao! You are incapable of even starting the thought process, it’s hilarious. Attack, attack, attack!

This is why economic debates are pointless. Nobody knows anything about it. Hell, investors are going insane about Nintendo because they thought their E3 was weak, when in reality Gamestop says Switch sales have doubled this time compared to last year. If people who are experts in the field don't know what the hell they're doing, I'm sure as hell the common person is even more lost.

I'm not saying I know everything because it isn't possible to know everything, but I cant comprehend how you can spell doom and gloom when the field itself doesn't give one damn about an individual. I can find agenda in just about everything, doesn't mean I'm right.



TH3-D0S3R said:
massimus said:

Why even bother responding? You didn’t say anything lol. And still haven’t named a pro-economic policy from Obama lmao! You are incapable of even starting the thought process, it’s hilarious. Attack, attack, attack!

This is why economic debates are pointless. Nobody knows anything about it. Hell, investors are going insane about Nintendo because they thought their E3 was weak, when in reality Gamestop says Switch sales have doubled this time compared to last year. If people who are experts in the field don't know what the hell they're doing, I'm sure as hell the common person is even more lost.

I'm not saying I know everything because it isn't possible to know everything, but I cant comprehend how you can spell doom and gloom when the field itself doesn't give one damn about an individual. I can find agenda in just about everything, doesn't mean I'm right.

See but that’s the future. It’s practically impossible to guess what the market will do, if it were easy then everyone would be filthy rich with worthless money. It’s not dumb to discuss current or past economics though. If you or I can comprehend it then anyone can. I don’t have a degree in economics, I’m not moving to wall st to sell stock. All you need is basics for comprehension. It’s probably the most complex thing on the planet but fairly simple to understand. It’s a billion piece puzzle and you can see which areas are coming together faster and which are falling behind.

 

Guessing what tomorrow is going to do is another story though, I agree. The more thorough the analysis on the patterns the more successful people will be. Some people are just lucky and hit gold. Trying to say “what would have happened if this happened” doesn’t have much concrete to stand on. Changing one thing changes everything. Like you say, experts can be full of shit too like weathermen but it’s fairly easy to spot dumb, restrictive policy that gets in the way. It’s predictable failure. Im against making the market more predictable by rigging it with stupid policy. I can find an agenda in everything as well but I can easily change my mind if I’m convinced. I’m not tied to any certain philosophy like a religious zealot, if something is objectively better than it needs to be considered.