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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
Machiavellian said:
TH3-D0S3R said:
I never really like to connect economy with a president purely because the market is an entirely different monster. I think Trump's Pro-American Job policy has convinced some companies to invest once again, but in hindsight this demographic is likely overblown by MSM to simplify it to the casual audience.


Sure the economy did gradually get better under Obama, but we had a crash so bad that we were gonna name it the Great Depression, but since that already happened they changed it to Recession at the last moment. Obama could've put both hands under his rear end the whole time and the market would have likely corrected itself the way it ended up doing. To say that Obama fixed the economy is a borderline fantasy statement that doesn't take the whole picture into account, and same goes for Trump.

What Pro - American Job policy did Trump institute that you believe has convinced companies to invest once again.  Are we seeing trends under this administration where the number of jobs are more than what was under the previous administration.  Hell, I do not even believe we have enough data from this Administration to make such assumption.  If anything the trend seems to be the same which means Trump did a good job not Fing anything up.  We will see how long that goes with the Tariffs.  No matter how you look at it, this will start to impact the country.  It will be interesting to see if Trump stays his course if things get bad or will he show weakness and cave in.  

Personally I believe he will hold fast, until its so bad that he will have no choice but to cave in.  Other nations already are making deals without the US gearing up for a fight.  

I'm not talking direct policy, I'm talking the general vibe of the direction. Safe to say Obama wasn't pro jobs, if he were the economy would've boomed slightly faster due to pure vibe and influence. Just the fact that Trump promotes growth in American industry signaled to invest, and as such you saw a period of growth. Now the market is volatile, and sorta starting a slope downwards due to Trump's want for increase tariffs. Im actually in favor of this, because the countries who produce goods the best tend to end up on top 99% of the time, and if you like at BASIC output models, America is on top in terms of output in accordance to population, it is RIDICULOUS. So most likely we will end up on top, and the economy will continue to improve. Minus possibly China, and even then their output in respect to population is sorta pathetic, there is nothing these countries can do to match the output of American products.

There is only one president who I can say directly influenced the economy, and that was FDR. Trust me, there is a reason the New Deal was not the Savior of the market, mostly because it was terrible and resulted in excess spending when people had no money left.



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Machiavellian said:
massimus said:

Exactly. In fact, it would have gotten to that point much faster if not for those economic policies. It went back down to 9% in spite of him. They couldn’t name one policy that drove those numbers down. What was it, shutting down the coal mines? Sending our jobs to other countries? Taking over the health insurance companies? 

I am pretty positive you will find something else to use once these numbers cannot be used to as any indication of Trump success.  Just like Trump was using the stock market as an indication of his success until the bottom fell out, I am sure we will see the same thing here as well.  So what economic policies did Trump bring about that help with job growth.  How many months has he consistently had better Job growth over Obama in the last 4 years.  How many of those coal mines are now going strong under Trump.  How many jobs are still going overseas under Trump. Has any of his polices actually been in effect long enough to even measure any real change over the previous administration.  Its not like this stuff ever changes on a dime but it seems you want to give all the credit to Trump as if any trend shows he is doing a better job then the last.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trumps-deregulation-binge/

Some reading for you. There is my one, now it’s your turn. Which Obama’s policy was pro-economy? Name one.



So apparently President Trump signed a CD of Elton's John's that features the song Rocket Man and sent it along with Pompeo to give to Kim Jon Un as a gift.

Awesome. That's all I can say to that.



massimus said:
Machiavellian said:

I am pretty positive you will find something else to use once these numbers cannot be used to as any indication of Trump success.  Just like Trump was using the stock market as an indication of his success until the bottom fell out, I am sure we will see the same thing here as well.  So what economic policies did Trump bring about that help with job growth.  How many months has he consistently had better Job growth over Obama in the last 4 years.  How many of those coal mines are now going strong under Trump.  How many jobs are still going overseas under Trump. Has any of his polices actually been in effect long enough to even measure any real change over the previous administration.  Its not like this stuff ever changes on a dime but it seems you want to give all the credit to Trump as if any trend shows he is doing a better job then the last.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trumps-deregulation-binge/

Some reading for you. There is my one, now it’s your turn. Which Obama’s policy was pro-economy? Name one.

That is a nice opinion article.  I personally would like to know where they get their figures from.  After reading the article I found another article where Trump cited these numbers.  Now maybe its just me but I always find it hard to believe anything that comes from Trump administration if not fact checked.  The last time someone from Trump sprouted numbers they were completely false.  

One of my problems with this article is that it does not tell you what actual regulations Trump and its administration actually either delayed or got rid of.  Here is a site that clears that up so we do not get hampared by overblown numbers but instead actual efforts.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

Now I have ready every one of these regulations Trump administration decided to put a hold on and I cannot say for myself I see this as a win.  A lot of them are environmental and we already have reports like this one where such changes seem more harm then good.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/epa-rollbacks-already-touching-americans-lives-045800944--politics.html

I am guess, because companies are making huge amounts of money and they probably continue to do so, giving them avenues to continue to make money at the expense of we the people may be seen as a win, but not in my book.  Anyway thats neither here or there and probably something to debate for another topic.

Here is an article I found, I believe some of their graphics were used in this same thread that is a counter to your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/14/comparing-the-trump-economy-to-the-obama-economy/?utm_term=.1429fc0473fa

Here is another one that gives another picture.  

https://www.ft.com/content/b5b764cc-d657-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e

Back at you.



TH3-D0S3R said:
Machiavellian said:

What Pro - American Job policy did Trump institute that you believe has convinced companies to invest once again.  Are we seeing trends under this administration where the number of jobs are more than what was under the previous administration.  Hell, I do not even believe we have enough data from this Administration to make such assumption.  If anything the trend seems to be the same which means Trump did a good job not Fing anything up.  We will see how long that goes with the Tariffs.  No matter how you look at it, this will start to impact the country.  It will be interesting to see if Trump stays his course if things get bad or will he show weakness and cave in.  

Personally I believe he will hold fast, until its so bad that he will have no choice but to cave in.  Other nations already are making deals without the US gearing up for a fight.  

I'm not talking direct policy, I'm talking the general vibe of the direction. Safe to say Obama wasn't pro jobs, if he were the economy would've boomed slightly faster due to pure vibe and influence. Just the fact that Trump promotes growth in American industry signaled to invest, and as such you saw a period of growth. Now the market is volatile, and sorta starting a slope downwards due to Trump's want for increase tariffs. Im actually in favor of this, because the countries who produce goods the best tend to end up on top 99% of the time, and if you like at BASIC output models, America is on top in terms of output in accordance to population, it is RIDICULOUS. So most likely we will end up on top, and the economy will continue to improve. Minus possibly China, and even then their output in respect to population is sorta pathetic, there is nothing these countries can do to match the output of American products.

There is only one president who I can say directly influenced the economy, and that was FDR. Trust me, there is a reason the New Deal was not the Savior of the market, mostly because it was terrible and resulted in excess spending when people had no money left.

Why would it be safe to say Obama was not pro jobs.  Now I know this is an opinion but exactly how is the trend we see with Trump any different in that area.  Trump in his first year did not beat Obama in his last 4 years in office for the number of Jobs gained.  Not only that but even with the Tax cut to the wealthy, pay is still stagnant and no better than it was during his administration as well. 

What is the sector that Trump is promoting growth.  Just saying Trump is promoting growth but with no real evidence is two different things.  Also it would be good to see actual policy within those sectors and show stats how improvement over the previous administration.  Saying something and doing it is totally different.

As for the tariffs, I really do not mind him going in that direction but as always, I do not believe he or his administration knows what they are doing.  Its one thing to just go after China,  If you bring them to the table with a better deal, you get the win and go after others.  To go after everyone, Canada, Mexico, and Europe seems stupid. Being on top is only good if you are the sole producer of those items.  Now you have all of them not willing to bend to the US and thus we will get tic for tac and no one will be willing to concede to Trump.  This is why him keeping his mouth shut and just doing his job is for the best.  Making each move a public event only harden everyone else and so this whole thing can drag on for years.  We are already seeing the results of this as other nations start to do business excluding the US.  We may be strong today but if the world decides to push us to the side, we will see a lot of our items sitting on the self and businesses closing up.  If you believe the US economy can take retaliatory tariffs from all everyone you will see how fast our economy free falls real soon.

My key point is that the US economy is very complex and there is nothing within Trump background that shows me he understand macroeconomics.  The people he has put within his administration do not have a good track record in this area and it appears they cannot even be trust to tell the truth when asked basic questions.  I would feel more confident if Trump was someone I believe did the research, check his numbers understood the concepts and knew how to execute a plan that doesn't appear sloppy, ill informed or lacking any form of cohesive understandings of the topics.  Either way we will see how this shape up but I would easily bet that Trump and his administration F it all up to where we will be left in a worst state then going in.



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Machiavellian said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

I'm not talking direct policy, I'm talking the general vibe of the direction. Safe to say Obama wasn't pro jobs, if he were the economy would've boomed slightly faster due to pure vibe and influence. Just the fact that Trump promotes growth in American industry signaled to invest, and as such you saw a period of growth. Now the market is volatile, and sorta starting a slope downwards due to Trump's want for increase tariffs. Im actually in favor of this, because the countries who produce goods the best tend to end up on top 99% of the time, and if you like at BASIC output models, America is on top in terms of output in accordance to population, it is RIDICULOUS. So most likely we will end up on top, and the economy will continue to improve. Minus possibly China, and even then their output in respect to population is sorta pathetic, there is nothing these countries can do to match the output of American products.

There is only one president who I can say directly influenced the economy, and that was FDR. Trust me, there is a reason the New Deal was not the Savior of the market, mostly because it was terrible and resulted in excess spending when people had no money left.

Why would it be safe to say Obama was not pro jobs.  Now I know this is an opinion but exactly how is the trend we see with Trump any different in that area.  Trump in his first year did not beat Obama in his last 4 years in office for the number of Jobs gained.  Not only that but even with the Tax cut to the wealthy, pay is still stagnant and no better than it was during his administration as well. 

What is the sector that Trump is promoting growth.  Just saying Trump is promoting growth but with no real evidence is two different things.  Also it would be good to see actual policy within those sectors and show stats how improvement over the previous administration.  Saying something and doing it is totally different.

As for the tariffs, I really do not mind him going in that direction but as always, I do not believe he or his administration knows what they are doing.  Its one thing to just go after China,  If you bring them to the table with a better deal, you get the win and go after others.  To go after everyone, Canada, Mexico, and Europe seems stupid. Being on top is only good if you are the sole producer of those items.  Now you have all of them not willing to bend to the US and thus we will get tic for tac and no one will be willing to concede to Trump.  This is why him keeping his mouth shut and just doing his job is for the best.  Making each move a public event only harden everyone else and so this whole thing can drag on for years.  We are already seeing the results of this as other nations start to do business excluding the US.  We may be strong today but if the world decides to push us to the side, we will see a lot of our items sitting on the self and businesses closing up.  If you believe the US economy can take retaliatory tariffs from all everyone you will see how fast our economy free falls real soon.

My key point is that the US economy is very complex and there is nothing within Trump background that shows me he understand macroeconomics.  The people he has put within his administration do not have a good track record in this area and it appears they cannot even be trust to tell the truth when asked basic questions.  I would feel more confident if Trump was someone I believe did the research, check his numbers understood the concepts and knew how to execute a plan that doesn't appear sloppy, ill informed or lacking any form of cohesive understandings of the topics.  Either way we will see how this shape up but I would easily bet that Trump and his administration F it all up to where we will be left in a worst state then going in.

Promoting Growth and Making Growth are 2 different things.

Trump promotes the idea of American growth, but for the most part he keeps his hands off it minus tax decreases, which encourages businesses to move back. Will it MAKE them do it? No, but considering most Americans don't want to be paid the wages that are made in China, it's about all we can do. Obama kept his hands off, but he never really promoted companies to come back, instead touting a future for America that's likely more than 50 years away. That's why it took so long to get out of the recession, because he touted a world that wasn't yet feasible, and as such unreachable.

FDR made growth, and if it wasn't for WWII, we'd be fucked. FDR made temporary policies he thought would last forever, which is a big mistake. His biggest mistake? Social Security. It made sense when no one knew how to save money, but now it's over half what we pay towards the budget, so we really cant do anything.



SpokenTruth said:
Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States:

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-goes-on-nonsensical-rant-about-elton-john-organs-and-the-brain/

What are we supposed to get out of this?



KLAMarine said:
SpokenTruth said:
Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States:

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-goes-on-nonsensical-rant-about-elton-john-organs-and-the-brain/

What are we supposed to get out of this?

That Beloved Leader is just a badly written filler character in Red vs Blue.



SuaveSocialist said:
KLAMarine said:

What are we supposed to get out of this?

That Beloved Leader is just a badly written filler character in Red vs Blue.

No, he's the president.



TH3-D0S3R said:
Machiavellian said:

Why would it be safe to say Obama was not pro jobs.  Now I know this is an opinion but exactly how is the trend we see with Trump any different in that area.  Trump in his first year did not beat Obama in his last 4 years in office for the number of Jobs gained.  Not only that but even with the Tax cut to the wealthy, pay is still stagnant and no better than it was during his administration as well. 

What is the sector that Trump is promoting growth.  Just saying Trump is promoting growth but with no real evidence is two different things.  Also it would be good to see actual policy within those sectors and show stats how improvement over the previous administration.  Saying something and doing it is totally different.

As for the tariffs, I really do not mind him going in that direction but as always, I do not believe he or his administration knows what they are doing.  Its one thing to just go after China,  If you bring them to the table with a better deal, you get the win and go after others.  To go after everyone, Canada, Mexico, and Europe seems stupid. Being on top is only good if you are the sole producer of those items.  Now you have all of them not willing to bend to the US and thus we will get tic for tac and no one will be willing to concede to Trump.  This is why him keeping his mouth shut and just doing his job is for the best.  Making each move a public event only harden everyone else and so this whole thing can drag on for years.  We are already seeing the results of this as other nations start to do business excluding the US.  We may be strong today but if the world decides to push us to the side, we will see a lot of our items sitting on the self and businesses closing up.  If you believe the US economy can take retaliatory tariffs from all everyone you will see how fast our economy free falls real soon.

My key point is that the US economy is very complex and there is nothing within Trump background that shows me he understand macroeconomics.  The people he has put within his administration do not have a good track record in this area and it appears they cannot even be trust to tell the truth when asked basic questions.  I would feel more confident if Trump was someone I believe did the research, check his numbers understood the concepts and knew how to execute a plan that doesn't appear sloppy, ill informed or lacking any form of cohesive understandings of the topics.  Either way we will see how this shape up but I would easily bet that Trump and his administration F it all up to where we will be left in a worst state then going in.

Promoting Growth and Making Growth are 2 different things.

Trump promotes the idea of American growth, but for the most part he keeps his hands off it minus tax decreases, which encourages businesses to move back. Will it MAKE them do it? No, but considering most Americans don't want to be paid the wages that are made in China, it's about all we can do. Obama kept his hands off, but he never really promoted companies to come back, instead touting a future for America that's likely more than 50 years away. That's why it took so long to get out of the recession, because he touted a world that wasn't yet feasible, and as such unreachable.

FDR made growth, and if it wasn't for WWII, we'd be fucked. FDR made temporary policies he thought would last forever, which is a big mistake. His biggest mistake? Social Security. It made sense when no one knew how to save money, but now it's over half what we pay towards the budget, so we really cant do anything.

You are wayyyy off on social security. Most people still don't know how to save money. Sure the average white collar worker making as much or more than the average 4 person family shouldn't have a problem saving for retirement, but that isn't most people. Without social security there would be a lot more older people on the streets. I don't know where you got the idea that social security was a temporary policy, it was made for the long haul, to help people have money when they retire because quite frankly people are bad at saving money because spending money is easier than saving money. Social security costs a lot sure, but its entirely paid for by social security taxes, it doesn't take anything else away from the budget. Social Security is simply the recognition that tens of millions of poor and working class people, hell even middle class people, will be broke and homeless people when they are old without some government mandated safety net. Social Security has been and continues to be a roaring success for America. The only current problem is the baby boom generation is retiring which will create an imbalance between the input and output of the program, though that is certainly a fixable thing by changing some variables if politicians ever get up the nerve to do it.

 

Also your assessment of Obama seems way off base as well. Obama enacted measured policies to promote consistent growth, not a boom leading to another bust. And look at that we've had the longest period of continuous growth in US history. Of course now with Trump we've got huge tax giveaways to the rich combined with budget busting increases in spending combined with deregulation to take unbuckle the safety belt of the American economy, so a crash is now coming with the irresponsible and undisciplined Trump strategy of shoveling on debt during a time when we need it the least and over-heating the economy while starting trade wars to hurt America, while also personally attacking American companies (he's an idiot). Now thanks to Trump we're going to START the next recession at trillion-plus dollar deficits instead of reaching that point at the height of the recession. Trump is the answer to the question: how to make America burn?