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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

Why not? Diplomacy does not seem to work so it would be best just to nuke their bomb sites and try to send the troops we have in SK in to get rid of Kim.

Because that their probably violates a half dozen international treaties and accords. NK still has sovereignty.  Now if they start to impact other nations, then we can move in.

Who cares if it violates international laws? There is really nothing other countries can do to stop us. At the end of the day we will be solving a major problem.



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the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

1. Sadly our federal government attracts corrupt people. When you are the most powerful country in the world that sort of thing happens. That's why I am all about the downsizing of the federal government and giving more power to the states. Since states have to attract people in order to make money, they will have more incentives on doing what's right.

 

2. She must be lying because she didn't have proof and decided to say something after all these years. Not to mention all of the excuses and "conveniently forgetting key moments".

 

2 A. You do realize people in general base your group on a few bad apples or in the case of Democrats a lot of bad apples. Not saying it is right, but if you have a bunch of Democrat candidates running for president saying stupid stuff like that, it hurts the group.

 

3. Losing our jobs due to currency manipulation is ripping us off. There are other ways China is ripping us off as well.

1.
That's why medicare for all isn't likely to happen.  It isn't the reason why healthcare is so expensive in the US.  The federal government is required to make a medicare for all system work.  

2.  

What kind of evidence could someone possibly share?   She came out at that time because she didn't think he was the right person for the job.  

2b:
That's not how it works.  People are individuals, who make individual choices.  That's practically a corner stone of being a democrat.  

3.  

Sure, but a trade war probably isn't the best way to go about it.  

 

1. No, Medicare for all is ridiculously expensive at its current state. We need to lower the price of Medicare by removing a lot of regulations.

 

2. Again, she came out 35 years later when Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed for supreme court justice. That is very suspicious.

2B. People are individual, however, people like to group others. That is why there are discrimination and racism.

3. There are plenty of countries that can replace China. The leaders of China know this and they will start playing by the rules.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 06 March 2019

jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Because that their probably violates a half dozen international treaties and accords. NK still has sovereignty.  Now if they start to impact other nations, then we can move in.

Who cares if it violates international laws? There is really nothing other countries can do to stop us. At the end of the day we will be solving a major problem.

Your comments give the impression of having an extremely simplistic view of the world... Like you just drop a couple of nukes, send in the troops and everyone will be home for supper.

In reality the consequences of such action could lead to who knows where...

We're talking about a potential major loss of life here and the language you choose to use is extremely flippant and sounds more than a little arrogant & entitled...



Biggerboat1 said:
jason1637 said:

Who cares if it violates international laws? There is really nothing other countries can do to stop us. At the end of the day we will be solving a major problem.

Your comments give the impression of having an extremely simplistic view of the world... Like you just drop a couple of nukes, send in the troops and everyone will be home for supper.

In reality the consequences of such action could lead to who knows where...

We're talking about a potential major loss of life here and the language you choose to use is extremely flippant and sounds more than a little arrogant & entitled...

Im not saying we got after the innocent people but if we bombed their nuke sites where there are no people and send troops to not hurt the innocent but go after NK troops and Kim it would work. Yeah there would be consequences but other countries wont do shit to US anyway.



the-pi-guy said:
Snoopy said:

1. No, Medicare for all is ridiculously expensive at its current state. We need to lower the price of Medicare by removing a lot of regulations.

And yet it's a lot cheaper than what we currently have.  

One of the expensive aspects of our system is that in order for a hospital to work with an insurance company requires having people on staff for administration.  Having tons of insurance companies requires a lot of administration.  Some regulations have an impact on it, but so do the  large number of insurance companies.  Not to mention artificially raised prices, the cost to advertise insurance, as well as the need to maximize profits. 

Snoopy said:

2. Again, she came out 35 years later when Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed for supreme court justice. That is very suspicious.

This is what I'm talking about.  You seem bothered by that.  I don't.  I believe there's a perfectly logically explanation to that.  

2 scenarios:

Nothing happened.  Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed for supreme court justice.  She lied for politically motivated reasons. 

Something happened.  She decided not to come forward with it.  Kavanaugh is about to be confirmed for supreme court justice. She decides that she has to come forward with it, because she did not want her attacker to become a supreme court justice.  

 

Which scenario seems more plausible is going to depend on the type of person someone is.  Some people are apparently going to find the second scenario implausible because that's not the way they are.   Other people do act that way though.  I've seen people that act that way.  

My cousin came forward like 20 years after he was abused to make complaints about someone.  

The only reason it looks suspicous is because how partisan politics is getting.  There's nothing otherwise suspicious about the timing.

Snoopy said:

2B. People are individual, however, people like to group others. That is why there is to some degree discrimination.

Right, but Democrats make not discrimating for being in a group a big deal.  

Snoopy said: 

3. There are plenty of countries that can replace China. The leaders of China know this and they will start playing by the rules.

If you say so, still waiting for that to happen.

1. Artificial price rises is because of the federal government. If the federal government is willing to pay for everyone's medical problems, the hospital, insurance company, ect have no incentive to lower the price.

2. But Democrats do discriminate all the time. Calling Trump supporters deplorables....

3. It already has happened. The United States outsource work everywhere. China has been proven to be easily replaceable.



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SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

Who cares if it violates international laws? There is really nothing other countries can do to stop us. At the end of the day we will be solving a major problem.

You're young, I get that but this is opening a Pandora's Box of the likes we haven't seen in a long time. 

People are just too scared of the unknown. Realistically the worst that can happen are some countries giving us a slap on the wrist and China and the US having bad trade relations for a few years but honestly in my eyes its worth it if we can get rid of a cruel dictator.



jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Because that their probably violates a half dozen international treaties and accords. NK still has sovereignty.  Now if they start to impact other nations, then we can move in.

Who cares if it violates international laws? There is really nothing other countries can do to stop us. At the end of the day we will be solving a major problem.

This comment disturbs me for a very good reason.



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Immersiveunreality said:
Runa216 said:
It saddens me that we live in a world that demands both sides of an argument get equal respect when there is, at least in this case, a clear line between what's right and what's wrong. I hate that we have to pretend anything Trump says is reasonable or good for the country. I hate that we can't just dismiss modern republicans as the villains they are and fight against them as enemies. I hate that there's so much hypocrisy but you can't call out people on their hypocrisy. I hate that there are so many blatant, repeated examples of poor logic, pushing faulty facts or outright lies, bias, and shady debate tactics here but instead of just saying 'no, you can't do that, that's wrong because [insert logical fallacy of the day here]', you have to actually debate their broken, flawed, untrue points.

Never argue with a fool. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Bolded 1 :Life is never black and white and you should not see it this way,i do not like Trump myself but to state that we should be totally against anything he says sounds unfair and ignorant.

Bolded 2 :You fight against them as enemies and others fight against them as people,flawed people.

Bolded 3: this can be used against yourself,a great way to shut down conversation.

I do feel empathic towards you,your faith in humanity seems to be pretty low, just remember that atleast on this forum you argue with others mostly over petty things while having the same ideals as them and the only thing that differs is the trust in certain media.

In many ways you're right, but that's also the crux of what's wrong with the world right now. 

The world isn't black and white...most of the time. as such, we should be carefully considering what people say and respecting opinions...most of the time. 

This is not one of those times. Trump is only one step above the drunkard ranting about the end times on the street corner. His followers are only a few levels removed from nazis. I really, REALLY hate saying that because Nazis were terrible but have you actually listened to the rhetoric they spew? It's not as vitriolic as what Hitler was saying back in the 30's and 40's but if you don't see the xenophobic overtones that parallel one another and how, yes, the stuff like the holding cages is just a prelude to concentration camps, then that's on you. 

Under most circumstances I would be on the other side of the issue, saying that we as a people should show more compassion and carefully consider the points of our enemies. However, we live in a world where 50 million people voted for a certifiably crazy person who is so removed from reality he is a very real threat and danger to his people and the world around them. 

Sometimes, like in this case, action needs to be taken against that which would threaten the way of life of all decent people. 

And I actually have VERY high faith in humanity as a whole. On the worldwide scale the Human Race has never been better. I just find it disgusting that the last stand of the racists somehow manifested as a white nationalist in office who has an open hatred towards anyone with darker skin, be it mexicans, middle easterners, or black folks from 'shithole countries'. The rest of us have moved on, the US is stunningly stuck in the past, the world's racist uncle who 'means well' but does so by saying the world would be better without jews (or in this case 'filthy mexicans'.) 

On the whole we really shouldn't be respecting these people. 



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SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

People are just too scared of the unknown. Realistically the worst that can happen are some countries egiving us a slap on the wrist and China and the US having bad trade relations for a few years but honestly in my eyes its worth it if we can get rid of a cruel dictator.

That's really all you see coming out of that scenario?  First off, start looking at the impact that would have in the US itself.

Yeah I don't think anything worse would happen. The rest of the world would be happy Kim is gone anyway.

Edit: I know it's a bit extreme but the time foe diplomacy is over. We need to destroy the Kim regime and finally get results. 



Snoopy said:

 

2. Again, she came out 35 years later when Kavanaugh was about to be confirmed for supreme court justice. That is very suspicious.

2B. People are individual, however, people like to group others. That is why there are discrimination and racism.

No, that's literally the exact opposite of suspicious. It's almost like you're not a woman and therefore have absolutely no idea what it's like to be sexually harassed or how you'd respond to it, ESPECIALLY back in the 80's when it happened. 

Not sure if you've noticed, but this response here is exactly the problem. Women don't come forward TODAY (let alone back in the 80's) when they get sexually harassed or outright assaulted/raped because of people like you who don't believe them, don't trust them, or question their 'motives'. Proving rape is remarkably challenging, proving sexual harassment is just as hard. Even when rapists are accused and taken to court a disheartening number of them go free because it's her word vs his and that's never 'beyond reasonable doubt', as the modern law systems require for a conviction. 

It almost never works out when a woman (or man, let's not be sexist here) calls out their accuser. all it does is put the spotlight on them and never ends up resolving anything. Not until recently, anyway. 

I'll tell you a story about a female friend of mine on the receiving end of forceful, unwanted sexual advances so you maybe have a slightly more personal explanation rather than some big national event that went to court. 

I have a roommate who moved in around Summer 2017. I'd known him a while through work but it was nice to finally have him living with me because we're both pretty cool and open about certain elements of our sexuality. We never fooled around together but we could happily talk about that sort of thing with ease. After a few months living with me, he started dating some girl off the internet, a dating app of some sort. I'm not familiar.  She immediately got bad vibes from him because he was being creepy and was acting like since they were out 'on a date' it meant he could kiss her, grab her ass, and get in REAL close for those selfie shots. She shot him down, told him no, and moved on. 

However, he managed to convince her that it was just 'first date jitters' and she agreed to a second date wherein he actually smartened up and was far more respectful of her. They got to know each other, she came to the house and met me, we all got along and all was well, at least for a short while. 

Soon thereafter this roommate of mine ended up pushing she and I, trying to get us all to do a threesome, and after we both laughed it off, he ignored us for a while. By this time She had become friends (strictly platonic), but that didn't stop my roommate from pushing. He'd insist and joke and butt his head into all of our conversations and try to convince us to do a threesome with him. At first we thought it was kinda funny but I guess one time we were all in the mood so we fooled around. After that, he NEVER LEFT US ALONE! It was like a dog with a bone, a caveman who discovered sex for the first time. Once he had it, he wanted more and more and more but REFUSED to accept no as an answer. The only way we could get him to bugger off was to just say she was on her period or that we just weren't interested, we couldn't say that he was being a creeper because this would send him into a fit of rage about how 'he's trying' and how we 'shouldn't have kept silent for so long', blaming us for not telling him soon enough about his inappropriate behaviour. 

This persisted for a while until one time she and I were fooling arond and he just walked on in on us and started masturbating as he watched...we couldn't finish, but said we did. after that we gave him a long talking-to about his behaviour once more, where once again he threw a 'woe is me' fit about how he couldn't learn if we didn't tell him. 

Months passed without us talking about it, things settled down, and eventually, we all got back on good terms. They started chatting online, and his behaviour was better. It seemed like all was well so she foolishly decided 'hey, maybe we can try dating again!' (In retrospect we all knew this was a bad idea but this roommate has a tendency to put on the charm when he's not being an immature sex-pest so at the time it seemed reasonable.) 

Well, I was out of the house for the month of January 2018, which proved to be a VERY bad decision. See, by this point she hardly visited unless I was home, and almost refused to come over if it was just my roommate and her because he had shown himself to be unstable and dangerous (Did I mention he's tall and in good shape and she's petite and meek?). She hoped through all this she could perhaps fix him, the same thing I'd been doing for a year by now.) 

While they were here alone, without me or my roommate in the house, he suddenly got VERY sexually aggressive. Groping her even when she pushed him off, holding her tight when she tried to pull away, and trying to force his hands down her pants after REPEATED insistences that she didn't want that and that she wasn't comfortable. However, he 'put on the charm' and kept trying. She was worried by this point that if she gave a stern enough 'no' he'd lose his temper with her, so she finally gave in, let him have his way with her, then packed up and left and didn't return to visit for many months after that. She stayed in contact with me online, confided in me what happened, but asked me not to make a fuss about it because she knew it wouldn't do anything. Perhaps we both assumed it was because my roommate was young and just needed a lesson in consent. 

She did eventually come back to visit, but she only came to visit me. Never him. She didn't even want to visit if she was worried he'd be around. she was afraid of him, but she still never pressed charges because...obviously...she eventually said yes. Sure, she said no dozens of times, going so far as to be physically forceful with him in ensuring he didn't shove his hands down her pants or invade her space, but she eventually said yes, and there are many people out there who foolishly think 'well she said yes once' nullifies the dozens of times she said no. In her mind, she just wanted to put it behind her, forget it happened, and move on with her life. 

And since I'd experienced this roommate's sexual aggression on MANY occasions and saw his temper tantrums first hand, I knew she wasn't lying about a word  of it. 

Fast forward to December 2018. This roommate of mine has just discovered a friend of mine that he's got his eyes on. A friend I respect. a friend I'm eager to reaquaint myself with after years of drifting apart. so you know what I do? I WARN MY FRIEND about my roommate's poor understanding of consent. I warn my friend that once my roommate smells sex in the air he won't take no for an answer. My friend, finding this oddly charming and not alarming at all, simply tells me he's fine and that I should let him make his own decisions. So I do. I leave it alone until a fateful day right before Christmas when I'm inviting this female friend of mine over and my roommate is inviting my male friend over. Male friend asks about female friend, so I tell him straight up, no euphemisms or soft language: "This is the woman he raped." 

Drama ensues. Not because my roommate raped my female friend, but because I had the audacity to SAY that he did, thus risking his relationship to my male friend. 

And why did I wait for almost a full year to make this information known? Because my roommate was now setting his sights upon a person that mattered to me. I didn't want to see his shitty behaviour have an impact on those around me any longer. I kept silent and so did she because we felt it had no chance of making a difference if we spoke. but the moment came when this rapist roommate of mine was eyeing someone else and I wanted to protect my friend from my roommate's shitty behaviour. 

In many ways it's the same way here. She didn't testify for 35 years because she knew it wouldn't make a difference, ESPECIALLY not back then. Now, however, this man - whom she knows to be the scum of the earth - is about to be signed in as one of the most powerful men in America, one who's ethics are a key driving factor in his ability to do his job well. She knows that she can't take him to court, but it's important as hell to have the story known because NOW he's in a position to do some real damage to others if his behaviour isn't brought to light. 

I am not the woman in this story - either of them - but having witnessed a vaguely similar case myself, I think it's REMARKABLY important for people like you to know why women keep their mouths shut when assaulted (hint: it's people like you), but also why, when their assailant is about to acquire a position of power or affect others, that it may be pertinent to raise your voice. The fact that #MeToo is so prevalent now helps. 

So yeah, stop trying to devalue her story just because you don't find it timely. You need a dose of reality in your life, because your privelege is showing. 



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