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Locked: Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.83%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.78%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.43%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.22%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 14 2.43%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 372 64.70%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.04%
 
Total:575
jason1637 said:
MrWayne said:

I heard Dems and Reps already made a deal but trump didn't agree to it. I personally guess it's about the money, Trump want the full money but the Dems want a compromise on the money too.
They should just end the government shutdown and deal with the wall at a late date. The people need their money to buy food and pay their rent, that's more important.

I agree that this should end so people can get back to work but Trump knows that this will be his only leverage to getting his wall so I can see why he is so resistent.

And yeah the first psending bill was passed by the house and senate but it did not give border funding so trump used his veto.

Lets be honest, 2 years in office with both the house and Senate under GOP control and where was his wall demand.  Nothing came from the House and nothing was done on the Senate and Trump never tried to implement any wall funding or really any Immigration security measure during that time.  The only time the wall was even a question was when the Dems was willing to vote for it for DACA amnesty.  All this time he had the advantage to get something done and you expect us to believe its suddenly a crisis to shutdown the government now.

The Dems have stated they will not deal on the wall period as part of funding the government.  That should be a totally separate thing and it should.  It should be brought up in the house and senate just like any other issue and should not be tied to getting federal government employees paid because the President decided now was the time to go this route when he had 2 years to do it when his party had total control.

We are hear today because right wing media said some bad things when Trump was going to sign the funding bill without the wall.  Its not like he even put any effort or his people on any real boarder security plan.  Just like his campaign, a bunch of empty talk with nothing behind it.



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jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

That's apprehensions and inadmissions at the border.  You said illegal entry.  That's very different.

Illegal entry means they got in.  This chart shows those they prevented from getting in.   In fact, this really shows we don't need a wall at all.  Looks like we already do a damn good job stopping most attempts.

There are still millions of peop;e that enter unauthorized from the southern border. rougly 45% of the 12m Mxicans in the US entered illegeally and most people that enter from the southern border are not even Mexican so the total number is way higher.

So, you still lied and you've moved the goal posts.  You said hundreds of thousands ever year.  DHS says only 70,000 illegal immigrants are entering the US annually since 2015 and that includes all means of entry (checkpoints, southern border, northern border, overstayed Visas, boats, etc...).

Your other facts are wrong too.  There are currently 10.7 million undocumented immigrants in the US.  5.4 million are of Mexican nationality while 1.9 million are from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras.  That's 7.3 million from the southern border. 

What makes this a crisis now?  Why not back when it really was several hundred thousand illegal entries per year?  Why not back when he had full Republican control?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

There are still millions of peop;e that enter unauthorized from the southern border. rougly 45% of the 12m Mxicans in the US entered illegeally and most people that enter from the southern border are not even Mexican so the total number is way higher.

So, you still lied and you've moved the goal posts.  You said hundreds of thousands ever year.  DHS says only 70,000 illegal immigrants are entering the US annually since 2015 and that includes all means of entry (checkpoints, southern border, northern border, overstayed Visas, boats, etc...).

Your other facts are wrong too.  There are currently 10.7 million undocumented immigrants in the US.  5.4 million are of Mexican nationality while 1.9 million are from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras.  That's 7.3 million from the southern border. 

What makes this a crisis now?  Why not back when it really was several hundred thousand illegal entries per year?  Why not back when he had full Republican control?

1. I'm not sure where you got the 70k a year from. The last published report about illegal immigration i found was from 2015 and it had over 710k people entered the country from 2010-2015. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/18_1214_PLCY_pops-est-report.pdf

2. The correct number is 11.9m. I got that from the report i posted above. Overall more Mexicans have come here illegally but I was refering to in most recent years. There have been more non Mexican people from below the border enter than Mexican people. 

3. I never claimed that it's a crisis because it's really not. It's just a problem that can be solved with a wall. And I agree that Trump should have pushed for the wall when Republicans controlled both chambers of congress.



jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

So, you still lied and you've moved the goal posts.  You said hundreds of thousands ever year.  DHS says only 70,000 illegal immigrants are entering the US annually since 2015 and that includes all means of entry (checkpoints, southern border, northern border, overstayed Visas, boats, etc...).

Your other facts are wrong too.  There are currently 10.7 million undocumented immigrants in the US.  5.4 million are of Mexican nationality while 1.9 million are from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras.  That's 7.3 million from the southern border. 

What makes this a crisis now?  Why not back when it really was several hundred thousand illegal entries per year?  Why not back when he had full Republican control?

1. I'm not sure where you got the 70k a year from. The last published report about illegal immigration i found was from 2015 and it had over 710k people entered the country from 2010-2015. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/18_1214_PLCY_pops-est-report.pdf

2. The correct number is 11.9m. I got that from the report i posted above. Overall more Mexicans have come here illegally but I was refering to in most recent years. There have been more non Mexican people from below the border enter than Mexican people. 

3. I never claimed that it's a crisis because it's really not. It's just a problem that can be solved with a wall. And I agree that Trump should have pushed for the wall when Republicans controlled both chambers of congress.

Your 710,000 figure is from 2010 to 2015.  This is from page 4 of your PDF.  That's not per year.

 

Let's think about it.  That huge caravan thing we had recently was just 5-7k asylum seeking immigrants.  To reach 710,000 per year, there would need to be hundreds of these per year. I'm only using it as a number reference.  Obviously the caravan is a separate issue but it gives a comparable figure and perspective to work with.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Came across some interesting links yesterday.

The feasibility of the border wall.

Not long ago hitting record lows and net outflow of illegal immigrants.

And an interesting old quote about the nature of 'national security'.



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SpokenTruth said:
jason1637 said:

1. I'm not sure where you got the 70k a year from. The last published report about illegal immigration i found was from 2015 and it had over 710k people entered the country from 2010-2015. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/18_1214_PLCY_pops-est-report.pdf

2. The correct number is 11.9m. I got that from the report i posted above. Overall more Mexicans have come here illegally but I was refering to in most recent years. There have been more non Mexican people from below the border enter than Mexican people. 

3. I never claimed that it's a crisis because it's really not. It's just a problem that can be solved with a wall. And I agree that Trump should have pushed for the wall when Republicans controlled both chambers of congress.

Your 710,000 figure is from 2010 to 2015.  This is from page 4 of your PDF.  That's not per year.

 

Let's think about it.  That huge caravan thing we had recently was just 5-7k asylum seeking immigrants.  To reach 710,000 per year, there would need to be hundreds of these per year. I'm only using it as a number reference.  Obviously the caravan is a separate issue but it gives a comparable figure and perspective to work with.

710k in 5 years is in the hundred thousands but not all of that number includes border crossings. 

A lot of people that came from the Caravan were apprehended iirc so they would be included in the table i posted a few pages back. That graph does show that tens of thousands of people per month do try to come from the southern border. The whole situation si pretty sad honestly since a lot of these people are trying to flee annd create a better life for their families but as a country we can't just let people enter without proper documentation.



jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Your 710,000 figure is from 2010 to 2015.  This is from page 4 of your PDF.  That's not per year.

 

Let's think about it.  That huge caravan thing we had recently was just 5-7k asylum seeking immigrants.  To reach 710,000 per year, there would need to be hundreds of these per year. I'm only using it as a number reference.  Obviously the caravan is a separate issue but it gives a comparable figure and perspective to work with.

710k in 5 years is in the hundred thousands but not all of that number includes border crossings. 

A lot of people that came from the Caravan were apprehended iirc so they would be included in the table i posted a few pages back. That graph does show that tens of thousands of people per month do try to come from the southern border. The whole situation si pretty sad honestly since a lot of these people are trying to flee annd create a better life for their families but as a country we can't just let people enter without proper documentation.

Yes, they do try to come to the US but you are talking about illegally crossing.  This is the part where you have to show that number represent people cross illegally over the southern boarder not just general numbers coming to the US.  Also that graph shows how much illegal immigration has fallen during the years.  The problem with the wall as shone by a few links in this thread is that if you believe 5.6 billion is going to really do anything you are kidding yourself.  As many expert on the subject has stated, such an engineering project is a huge task costing north of 50 Billion.

Ask yourself exactly where will Trump build this perfect wall.  There is no plan because its a talking point not a real project.  It's the same plan he had for healthcare where he stated he had a plan but end of having nothing.  If he had a plan he would be presenting it to show the American public how much work he and his administration has put into getting this beautiful wall in place.  How much will this cover and where, who land will get confiscated to do it.  It's a political game and he really isn't trying to negotiate because that is when we really see how incompetent his administration is when they have to actually put it into place.

I personally want him to go the Emergency route.  I want him to play that card and then show us what his administration plan is for the project.  I want to see all the GOP support him going this route because we know, once you open that Pandora box, they will have fun times when a Dem President get into the WH.  When all is said and done, the GOP will fall on this sword supporting Trump and it will be interesting to see how the party fares afterwards.



Machiavellian said:
jason1637 said:

710k in 5 years is in the hundred thousands but not all of that number includes border crossings. 

A lot of people that came from the Caravan were apprehended iirc so they would be included in the table i posted a few pages back. That graph does show that tens of thousands of people per month do try to come from the southern border. The whole situation si pretty sad honestly since a lot of these people are trying to flee annd create a better life for their families but as a country we can't just let people enter without proper documentation.

Yes, they do try to come to the US but you are talking about illegally crossing.  This is the part where you have to show that number represent people cross illegally over the southern boarder not just general numbers coming to the US.  Also that graph shows how much illegal immigration has fallen during the years.  The problem with the wall as shone by a few links in this thread is that if you believe 5.6 billion is going to really do anything you are kidding yourself.  As many expert on the subject has stated, such an engineering project is a huge task costing north of 50 Billion.

Ask yourself exactly where will Trump build this perfect wall.  There is no plan because its a talking point not a real project.  It's the same plan he had for healthcare where he stated he had a plan but end of having nothing.  If he had a plan he would be presenting it to show the American public how much work he and his administration has put into getting this beautiful wall in place.  How much will this cover and where, who land will get confiscated to do it.  It's a political game and he really isn't trying to negotiate because that is when we really see how incompetent his administration is when they have to actually put it into place.

I personally want him to go the Emergency route.  I want him to play that card and then show us what his administration plan is for the project.  I want to see all the GOP support him going this route because we know, once you open that Pandora box, they will have fun times when a Dem President get into the WH.  When all is said and done, the GOP will fall on this sword supporting Trump and it will be interesting to see how the party fares afterwards.

The spending bill has already been written. But the current bill only gave 1.3 billion to border security while Trump wants 5.6 billion. Personally I think the 50 billion for a wall is bs. 5.6 billion should be enough if you budget correctly. 

If the democrats don't agree to increase border spending then yeah I'd like to see the emergency route so the government can open up.



jason1637 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yes, they do try to come to the US but you are talking about illegally crossing.  This is the part where you have to show that number represent people cross illegally over the southern boarder not just general numbers coming to the US.  Also that graph shows how much illegal immigration has fallen during the years.  The problem with the wall as shone by a few links in this thread is that if you believe 5.6 billion is going to really do anything you are kidding yourself.  As many expert on the subject has stated, such an engineering project is a huge task costing north of 50 Billion.

Ask yourself exactly where will Trump build this perfect wall.  There is no plan because its a talking point not a real project.  It's the same plan he had for healthcare where he stated he had a plan but end of having nothing.  If he had a plan he would be presenting it to show the American public how much work he and his administration has put into getting this beautiful wall in place.  How much will this cover and where, who land will get confiscated to do it.  It's a political game and he really isn't trying to negotiate because that is when we really see how incompetent his administration is when they have to actually put it into place.

I personally want him to go the Emergency route.  I want him to play that card and then show us what his administration plan is for the project.  I want to see all the GOP support him going this route because we know, once you open that Pandora box, they will have fun times when a Dem President get into the WH.  When all is said and done, the GOP will fall on this sword supporting Trump and it will be interesting to see how the party fares afterwards.

The spending bill has already been written. But the current bill only gave 1.3 billion to border security while Trump wants 5.6 billion. Personally I think the 50 billion for a wall is bs. 5.6 billion should be enough if you budget correctly. 

If the democrats don't agree to increase border spending then yeah I'd like to see the emergency route so the government can open up.

The Dems are more then happy to give him funding for boarder security, they are not going to give a dime to the wall

I believe you will get your wish because I see nothing so far that will make the Dems fold and Trump really has not offered anything but demands.  As long as the polls favor the Dems, why would the move on this issue.  Playing the National Emergency card has a lot of risk and if it fails he will look even worst.  Its the whole reason he keeps the threats without pulling the trigger.  Anyway, I am tried of him making the threat, he should pull the trigger and let see what happens.  



Machiavellian said:
jason1637 said:

The spending bill has already been written. But the current bill only gave 1.3 billion to border security while Trump wants 5.6 billion. Personally I think the 50 billion for a wall is bs. 5.6 billion should be enough if you budget correctly. 

If the democrats don't agree to increase border spending then yeah I'd like to see the emergency route so the government can open up.

The Dems are more then happy to give him funding for boarder security, they are not going to give a dime to the wall

I believe you will get your wish because I see nothing so far that will make the Dems fold and Trump really has not offered anything but demands.  As long as the polls favor the Dems, why would the move on this issue.  Playing the National Emergency card has a lot of risk and if it fails he will look even worst.  Its the whole reason he keeps the threats without pulling the trigger.  Anyway, I am tried of him making the threat, he should pull the trigger and let see what happens.  

In the spending bill he wants them to increase the amount of money used on border security so that it can go to a wall. The funny thing is that back in 2013 democrats pushed foward a bill that would build a 700 mile border fence in the southern border and every Democratic senator voted for it.