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Where is Microsoft headed from here on out?

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Where do you think Microsoft will focus on?

PC 62 54.87%
 
Xbox 14 12.39%
 
Equal focus on both 37 32.74%
 
Total:113
Errorist76 said:

 

You’re just proving my point tbh. The console market grew to almost 300% the size. So 1/3 Of 40 Million is 13.3 Million. 13 Million 4th gen would have been slightly more than PC Engine. You call that a success?!

I never said I agreed or disagreed with your point. But I was going to present the information either way, the onus is on you to decide what to do with it. - Not everything is about taking sides you know.

With that in mind... If a console sells 40 million... Then it sold 40 million.
If it sells 10 million it sells 10 million, you don't get to inflate/deflate the numbers to fit your own narrative.

As long as a profit is being made then it is still a success, it really is that simple.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 08 December 2017

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After seeing this DF video about Microsoft's Backwards compatibility(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8nYLO43zs), it all makes sense to me know....
In the next couple of years Microsoft will drop the console side and release Xbox branded PCs (probably top end laptops to make it portable) as the next iteration. With the new emulator tech (as per above vidoe) they are developing, they could shoehorn that into the next release of Windows (Windows 11) and you can then play all your XBox One, Xbox 360 and Xbox Original games on your Xbox XI PC. I don't believe the move to release games on both Xbox and PC is happenstance. I think there is a longer term agenda. I think we'll see this strategy revealed in the next 3 years.



CartBlanche said:
After seeing this DF video about Microsoft's Backwards compatibility(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8nYLO43zs), it all makes sense to me know....
In the next couple of years Microsoft will drop the console side and release Xbox branded PCs (probably top end laptops to make it portable) as the next iteration. With the new emulator tech (as per above vidoe) they are developing, they could shoehorn that into the next release of Windows (Windows 11) and you can then play all your XBox One, Xbox 360 and Xbox Original games on your Xbox XI PC. I don't believe the move to release games on both Xbox and PC is happenstance. I think there is a longer term agenda. I think we'll see this strategy revealed in the next 3 years.

Microsoft doesn't seem to care about hardware, but only their applications and os spreading like wildfire.



CartBlanche said:
After seeing this DF video about Microsoft's Backwards compatibility(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd8nYLO43zs), it all makes sense to me know....
In the next couple of years Microsoft will drop the console side and release Xbox branded PCs (probably top end laptops to make it portable) as the next iteration. With the new emulator tech (as per above vidoe) they are developing, they could shoehorn that into the next release of Windows (Windows 11) and you can then play all your XBox One, Xbox 360 and Xbox Original games on your Xbox XI PC. I don't believe the move to release games on both Xbox and PC is happenstance. I think there is a longer term agenda. I think we'll see this strategy revealed in the next 3 years.

Not sure how you came up with "Xbox Emulation on the PC" from watching that Digital Foundry video.
Did you miss the part where the Xbox One chip retains partial backwards compatibility with prior consoles in hardware? PC doesn't have that... Rather. It can't.



Pemalite said:

Not sure how you came up with "Xbox Emulation on the PC" from watching that Digital Foundry video.
Did you miss the part where the Xbox One chip retains partial backwards compatibility with prior consoles in hardware? PC doesn't have that... Rather. It can't.

Please point out where in that video they say they have a PowerPC chip inside Xbox One to support Xbox 360 HW? How does the x86 chip contain PowerPC instructions?? Microsoft are basically running a the equivalent of HiperVisor Virtual Machine for each console they support. The guy in the video specifically says "Microsoft has a FULL emulation layer (meaning NO HW) for XBox One that makes the system believe that it IS an Xbox 360". He also points out the PowerPC code is converted to an intermediary language then recompiled for x86 so it running a close to full speed as possible. Please watch the video again from about 1 minute in and try to understand fully what is being said.

So...as I mentioned in my original post, since it is all running in software, in theory you could run it on any PC, that has enough CPU/GPU power. Hell if Microsoft made the code available, it could be ported to PS4 and you'd have the whole Xbox library running on the PS4 or PS5!!



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CartBlanche said:

Please point out where in that video they say they have a PowerPC chip inside Xbox One to support Xbox 360 HW?

Please point out where I made the assertion that it did have a PowerPC chip.

CartBlanche said:

How does the x86 chip contain PowerPC instructions??


x86 chip doesn't need to contain PowerPC instructions. - Digital Foundry explained this.

Why do you think x86 Android tablets/phones can run the full suite of ARM Android apps? (I.E. Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 10.1/Intel Medfield and so on.)
I'll tell you why. It is a technique known as "Binary Translation". - Where instructions are translated/interpreted to be compatible with an entirely different hardware environment.
Here is some reading material to catch you up to speed on the topic:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/2480/4
and:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/5365/intels-medfield-atom-z2460-arrive-for-smartphones/5
and:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_translation
and:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_recompilation

Thank me later.

Microsoft are basically running a the equivalent of HiperVisor Virtual Machine for each console they support.

Correct. But we have known this for a stupidly long time anyway.
In-fact, Microsoft was already dealing with virtualization before backwards compatibility came along on the Xbox One, it was baked into the system from the very beginning.

CartBlanche said:

The guy in the video specifically says "Microsoft has a FULL emulation layer (meaning NO HW) for XBox One that makes the system believe that it IS an Xbox 360".

You should probably watch the video again.

CartBlanche said:

He also points out the PowerPC code is converted to an intermediary language then recompiled for x86 so it running a close to full speed as possible.

So you just refuted the first and second of your quotes. You make my job a little easier at-least.

CartBlanche said:

 Please watch the video again from about 1 minute in and try to understand fully what is being said.

I wouldn't make the false assumption that I am tech illiterate.

CartBlanche said:

So...as I mentioned in my original post, since it is all running in software, in theory you could run it on any PC, that has enough CPU/GPU power. Hell if Microsoft made the code available, it could be ported to PS4 and you'd have the whole Xbox library running on the PS4 or PS5!!

It is not all running in software.
You should really watch that Digital Foundry video again... Especially the part where they start talking about the texture formats and audio tech being baked into the Xbox One's chip.

Or do I really need to do a Youtube embed that starts the video right when they make that statement?

Last edited by Pemalite - on 09 December 2017

Xbox one sold over 1.4m in the us last month and nearly doubled switch number. They are doing just fine.



 

Pemalite said: 

Especially the part where they start talking about the texture formats and audio tech being baked into the Xbox One's chip.

Or do I really need to do a Youtube embed that starts the video right when they make that statement?

Baking the texture format and audio decompression into the chip just means it takes less speed to decompress the image and audio assets to be used on the Xbox One, when the Xbox 360 game needs it. So that decision was made to gain a speed advantage. If you had enough CPU power you could decompress the 360 textures and audio assets in software. Eg. On a high end PC for instance. So no need for it to be in HW except it frees up the X1 CPU to do other important stuff

So in short when you say ...

Pemalite said: 

Rather. It can't.

You can run it ALL on a PC and I believe that by the next gen, we will see that happening. And if Microsoft decide to go via the Xbox PC route, as I mentioned previously, they could "bake" stuff into that HW too, to speed up those aspects of emulation, but they don't have to, if they don't want to or think it will be harder to update the firmware.

While we are here, please tell me how many years of software development experience you have and how many compression or decompression routines you've tried to write over the last 20+ years. Or how many game development APIs you've worked on? 

To give you a hint of my background.... game development APIs I've worked on (actually lead the team for 3-4 years, not doing so anymore) has been used in games such as Bastion, Fez to name 2. The code worked on Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS and Android. So a variety of processors and platforms. The team currently heading up that codebase now has it running on Xbox One, PS4, PSVita and recently Switch. I'd like to think I know a little about game dev and what is and isn't possible on both the HW and SW side of the equation.



Pinkie_pie said:
Xbox one sold over 1.4m in the us last month and nearly doubled switch number. They are doing just fine.

Having 1 good month out of 12 is better than none, but once they have 11 good months out of 12 then, IMO, they would be doing fine. They have a LOT of work to do this gen.



Pinkie_pie said:
Xbox one sold over 1.4m in the us last month and nearly doubled switch number. They are doing just fine.

Those numbers are incorrect. Those numbers also include months of pre-orders and the launch numbers of a new console AND a hugely discounted base console without stock issues on Black Friday.

I'd be careful to overhype those numbers.