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Looking into a 4K TV, any recommendations?

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LivingMetal said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Which makes sense as is obviously a negative aspect of the technology, but it is only one aspect and only under certain conditions that according to them "we expect this to not be a problem for most people"

 

Now, can you actually answer my point or do you prefer to simply deflect by answering questions with questions? 

Answering a question with a question is not deflection. It's proving that if you can't answer the question using similar logic then your original question failed as a question.

I have never denied that OLED burn-in is a thing so being asked to explain why it is going to be included in future review summaries doesn't really make any sense... Especially when this question is a response to me asking why the outlet in question is advocating an OLED as gaming TV of choice... How exactly was my initial question not logical?



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Come to think of it - there's a version of the Vita that has an OLED screen & have to say all I've ever heard from Vita owners is how beautiful it is... and that system is built to play games...

Again, I'm sure there must be issues there due to the innate nature of the technology but think it is being somewhat overstated here in this thread...



Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

Except a little bit more research into their comments on Twitter or YouTube will reveal that it actually is a problem for most gamers.

 

And how many TVs do you deal with on a daily basis? One? Maybe two? I deal with dozens. I also deal with up to three cases of OLED burn-in a week, because I'm manager of an Audio/Video department in a national chain store. So you can speak from others' experience all you want, but I have actual first-hand experience. OLED burns in, it burns in often, and honestly any dunces who buy OLEDs for gaming despite all the warning signs deserve what they get. I'm just here trying to make sure people are as fully aware of the impending burn-in as possible.

I stated earlier that it all depends on use-case & not even how often you game but which games you play as each will have it's own in impact on burn-in. If that's a headache any given consumer can do without then yes, they're better off buying a non-OLED. But if you're willing keep an eye on how much & what you're playing then it really does offer the best experience for gaming, not to mention pretty much everything else.

I'll take you on your word that you receive that many returns for OLED burn-in but I find it odd that there doesn't seem to be 1 OLED owner on this thread with similar issues (who I'd assume are on the upper end of the spectrum for hours gaming...).

Comments & Youtube videos are fine but they really give no indication of the actual scale of the problem - according to comments sections & youtube videos you'd have been forgiven for believing that half of all joy-cons were faulty at launch - when in actual reality we now know this issue was far smaller.

I'm 2 years in with my OLED and have experienced ZERO issues (out of curiosity I cycled through various test screens a couple of nights ago and nothing to report) - so I get a little tired of being told that I should be bitter and/or regret my purchase. Maybe I just lucked out with my set... but again no other owners on this thread seem to be suffering either...

Just out of interest how many OLEDs does your store sell per week?

It sounds less like you play what you want and more like you're a prisoner to your OLED when you put it like that.

 

As far as other people not coming in to post about their burn-in, there's a phenomenon where people vehemently defend products they put their money behind. Even if there was someone here with burn-in on their OLED, it's likely they wouldn't even admit to it because they believe in their product. Anecdotally, there's a guy who works in my department who insists OLED doesn't burn-in and owns one for gaming. When some co-workers and I went to his place for CAH and pizza, I examined his OLED and pointed out where his health bar from Dark Souls was beginning to burn-in. He still denied it.

 

My department sells anywhere from 7 to 15 OLEDs a week, but last week we sold 34. The only OLED burn-in I deal with for customers is burn-in from the first 30 days (return window) or burn-in on TVs with our protection plans in them. Burn-in is otherwise directed to LG, so I don't even deal with 100% of our burn-in.

 

And as a side note that I'm not sure I mentioned yet: LG does not cover burn-in on their warranties.



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Biggerboat1 said:
Come to think of it - there's a version of the Vita that has an OLED screen & have to say all I've ever heard from Vita owners is how beautiful it is... and that system is built to play games...

Again, I'm sure there must be issues there due to the innate nature of the technology but think it is being somewhat overstated here in this thread...

It is technically a good looking screen. OLED technology gives a fantastic picture. I replaced my OLED Vita recently for a combination of worries, the main worry being a reason that I'm apparently not supposed to share with customers: OLEDs have half-lives on their blues.

 

According to Sony themselves in our training, that's the big reason they were so hesitant about using OLED technology and why the A1E isn't their flagship model. According to Sony OLED panels will lose over 50% of their blue saturation in 7 years, so I wanted to replace my Vita before that became an issue (fear of burn-in was also an issue).



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Azuren said:
Ajax said:

OLEDs are the best
LG, Panasonic, Philips and Sony have them
LG has got mid-range priced ones

People who say something else don’t know what they are talking about

After OLED there come many tvs
The Sony’s LEDs are good and some are reasonably priced
The Samsungs from last years are good and good priced
The Samsung QLEDs are good but way overpriced
Also alway look at Panasonic to see what they have

That’s it

The USA also has some very good cheaper brands that are not available in Europe for some reason

(I have a Sony 55XE9005)

Hi. Hundreds of hours of hands-on training between Sony, LG, and Samsung. Personally deal with selling TV's and inspecting returns. Been doing this for several years. Now let me tell you why you're wrong:

 

Burn-in is a real thing that can happen almost at random if an image stays on screen for too long. Every individual set is different, and some burn in much faster than others even in the same model. Burn-in happens often. The most common things to burn in are health bars and the LG logo. Pixel shift will not save you. The pixel refresh will not save you. Your screen will likely burn in within 12 months, and guess what? LG, Phillips, Panasonic, and Sony don't cover it on their warranties.

 

Now for your individual points:

 

Sony LEDs are objectively the best LEDs as a whole this year, so you are correct.

Samsungs from last year are mostly the same as this year, with exception of the KS series, all of which use split panels and have a high failure rate. Avoid unless you intend on buying protection.

Correct, QLEDs are overpriced, but still good TVs.

Panasonic has more often than not released garbage TVs since plasma was rendered obsolete. Avoid.

 

Most cheaper brands available in the US are 8-bit (NOT HDR) , suffer from high input lag, or both. Good for guest rooms, not for gaming.

 

Also, nice pick on your TV.

Holy shit, this is a nice insight!

Glad to have you in the community, i hope you can help me next year to choose my new TV.



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Azuren said:
Biggerboat1 said:
Come to think of it - there's a version of the Vita that has an OLED screen & have to say all I've ever heard from Vita owners is how beautiful it is... and that system is built to play games...

Again, I'm sure there must be issues there due to the innate nature of the technology but think it is being somewhat overstated here in this thread...

It is technically a good looking screen. OLED technology gives a fantastic picture. I replaced my OLED Vita recently for a combination of worries, the main worry being a reason that I'm apparently not supposed to share with customers: OLEDs have half-lives on their blues.

 

According to Sony themselves in our training, that's the big reason they were so hesitant about using OLED technology and why the A1E isn't their flagship model. According to Sony OLED panels will lose over 50% of their blue saturation in 7 years, so I wanted to replace my Vita before that became an issue (fear of burn-in was also an issue).

I think this whole debate comes down to expectations. As I stated earlier I don't mind replacing my TV every 5 years if it means having the best viewing experience. At that point I can retire the old OLED to the secondary set in the bedroom or something - I'm sure even with a little burn-in and loss of blues it'll still do a decent enough job in that capacity.

If you want your TV to last up to 10 years as your primary then yes, I guess there are better options. Although, I have to say that it seems a bit of an exception in the world of tech to expect that length of optimal performance out of a product... Just look at phones & PCs...

Sony may be skeptical of OLED in some regards but not too skeptical to have offered a Vita using the tech and also currently available TVs...

My issue is the lack of moderation in these comments - it seems very one-sided & it took the mention of the Vita to have you say something overtly positive about the tech...

I'll have another look at some test screens tonight and really have a thorough examination as I'm genuinely interested. If it turns out there's some burn-in hiding somewhere I won't be happy but I'm not going to lose sleep over it, especially as even with some subtle burn-in which is only visible on test screens, I'm still be delighted with the overall day-to-day viewing experience...



Azuren said:
Biggerboat1 said:

I stated earlier that it all depends on use-case & not even how often you game but which games you play as each will have it's own in impact on burn-in. If that's a headache any given consumer can do without then yes, they're better off buying a non-OLED. But if you're willing keep an eye on how much & what you're playing then it really does offer the best experience for gaming, not to mention pretty much everything else.

I'll take you on your word that you receive that many returns for OLED burn-in but I find it odd that there doesn't seem to be 1 OLED owner on this thread with similar issues (who I'd assume are on the upper end of the spectrum for hours gaming...).

Comments & Youtube videos are fine but they really give no indication of the actual scale of the problem - according to comments sections & youtube videos you'd have been forgiven for believing that half of all joy-cons were faulty at launch - when in actual reality we now know this issue was far smaller.

I'm 2 years in with my OLED and have experienced ZERO issues (out of curiosity I cycled through various test screens a couple of nights ago and nothing to report) - so I get a little tired of being told that I should be bitter and/or regret my purchase. Maybe I just lucked out with my set... but again no other owners on this thread seem to be suffering either...

Just out of interest how many OLEDs does your store sell per week?

It sounds less like you play what you want and more like you're a prisoner to your OLED when you put it like that.

 

As far as other people not coming in to post about their burn-in, there's a phenomenon where people vehemently defend products they put their money behind. Even if there was someone here with burn-in on their OLED, it's likely they wouldn't even admit to it because they believe in their product. Anecdotally, there's a guy who works in my department who insists OLED doesn't burn-in and owns one for gaming. When some co-workers and I went to his place for CAH and pizza, I examined his OLED and pointed out where his health bar from Dark Souls was beginning to burn-in. He still denied it.

 

My department sells anywhere from 7 to 15 OLEDs a week, but last week we sold 34. The only OLED burn-in I deal with for customers is burn-in from the first 30 days (return window) or burn-in on TVs with our protection plans in them. Burn-in is otherwise directed to LG, so I don't even deal with 100% of our burn-in.

 

And as a side note that I'm not sure I mentioned yet: LG does not cover burn-in on their warranties.

Well, that sounds like a huge % of affected sets and if that bore out throughout the entire industry then surely we'd hear more about it and/or stores would simply stop stocking as the time/costs of returns would negate the profits made on selling the actual sets...?

Where was the deluge of OLED Vita owners complaints in the first month after purchase? The joy-con issue seemed to be shouted from the rooftops as vocally as possible for what ended up being quite a small percentage of effected units so it seems a very odd difference in consumer behaviour... Unless I just missed the backlash (I don't follow Sony particularly closely)

Anyway, as I've said in my other post - I'll def have another look at my set tonight.



Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

It is technically a good looking screen. OLED technology gives a fantastic picture. I replaced my OLED Vita recently for a combination of worries, the main worry being a reason that I'm apparently not supposed to share with customers: OLEDs have half-lives on their blues.

 

According to Sony themselves in our training, that's the big reason they were so hesitant about using OLED technology and why the A1E isn't their flagship model. According to Sony OLED panels will lose over 50% of their blue saturation in 7 years, so I wanted to replace my Vita before that became an issue (fear of burn-in was also an issue).

I think this whole debate comes down to expectations. As I stated earlier I don't mind replacing my TV every 5 years if it means having the best viewing experience. At that point I can retire the old OLED to the secondary set in the bedroom or something - I'm sure even with a little burn-in and loss of blues it'll still do a decent enough job in that capacity.

If you want your TV to last up to 10 years as your primary then yes, I guess there are better options. Although, I have to say that it seems a bit of an exception in the world of tech to expect that length of optimal performance out of a product... Just look at phones & PCs...

Sony may be skeptical of OLED in some regards but not too skeptical to have offered a Vita using the tech and also currently available TVs...

My issue is the lack of moderation in these comments - it seems very one-sided & it took the mention of the Vita to have you say something overtly positive about the tech...

I'll have another look at some test screens tonight and really have a thorough examination as I'm genuinely interested. If it turns out there's some burn-in hiding somewhere I won't be happy but I'm not going to lose sleep over it, especially as even with some subtle burn-in which is only visible on test screens, I'm still be delighted with the overall day-to-day viewing experience...

And as I tell people in my store, if you're the rope to buy a new TV every few years, don't worry about it and grab an OLED. But most people aren't like that, and it's irresponsible to suggest OLEDs to people looking for a 7-8 year TV. A 10 year TV doesn't really happen anymore.

 

Sony is skeptical, which is why they stopped releasing OLED Vita's. They worked with OLED for years before LG made larger OLED screens, and this have much more experience with it than LG does. So I'll trust Sony's opinion on OLED before LG's.

 

It seems you misunderstand: I've never completely dogged OLED picture quality. Aside from a loss in black definition on LG models (Sony models can more properly display black detail thanks to better video processing), the OLEDs have perfect picture quality. The problem is it's a dead end technology, just like plasma. The shortcomings of OLED will never be overcome, and the industry will change gears to the QLEDs after Samsung makes them self-emitting. ((Quick lesson: the thing that makes OLED so great is the fact that the diodes are self-emitting, meaning every pixel is lighting itself. So instead of displaying a black that is lit up like an LED, the diode just turns off, giving a perfect black with infinite contrast and zero light bleed/bloom. Should a QLED become self-emitting, it's be an OLED with 100% color volume, zero burn-in, and no half-life.))



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Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

It sounds less like you play what you want and more like you're a prisoner to your OLED when you put it like that.

 

As far as other people not coming in to post about their burn-in, there's a phenomenon where people vehemently defend products they put their money behind. Even if there was someone here with burn-in on their OLED, it's likely they wouldn't even admit to it because they believe in their product. Anecdotally, there's a guy who works in my department who insists OLED doesn't burn-in and owns one for gaming. When some co-workers and I went to his place for CAH and pizza, I examined his OLED and pointed out where his health bar from Dark Souls was beginning to burn-in. He still denied it.

 

My department sells anywhere from 7 to 15 OLEDs a week, but last week we sold 34. The only OLED burn-in I deal with for customers is burn-in from the first 30 days (return window) or burn-in on TVs with our protection plans in them. Burn-in is otherwise directed to LG, so I don't even deal with 100% of our burn-in.

 

And as a side note that I'm not sure I mentioned yet: LG does not cover burn-in on their warranties.

Well, that sounds like a huge % of affected sets and if that bore out throughout the entire industry then surely we'd hear more about it and/or stores would simply stop stocking as the time/costs of returns would negate the profits made on selling the actual sets...?

Where was the deluge of OLED Vita owners complaints in the first month after purchase? The joy-con issue seemed to be shouted from the rooftops as vocally as possible for what ended up being quite a small percentage of effected units so it seems a very odd difference in consumer behaviour... Unless I just missed the backlash (I don't follow Sony particularly closely)

Anyway, as I've said in my other post - I'll def have another look at my set tonight.

You'd be surprised what companies will stock for a profit. Just take RGBW panels, for example. They aren't real 4K, yet are legally advertised as such because they can be 4K when Monochromatic. ((For those wishing to avoid RGBW panels, only LG makes them. They are the UH6300, UJ6200, UJ6300, UJ7700, and SJ8000))

 

Can't have a deluge of complaints if there isn't a deluge of sales. Plus, the UI of the Vita was designed to be in constant motion (except the top bar showing the time/battery/etc), thus acting as it's own form of pixel shift. Finally, the Vita didn't kick off in Japan much until after the slim model launched, so most models on the market lack the OLED display.

 

And good luck. I don't wish burn-in on people, I'm here to make sure they make informed decisions.



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ThisGuyFooks said:
Azuren said:

Hi. Hundreds of hours of hands-on training between Sony, LG, and Samsung. Personally deal with selling TV's and inspecting returns. Been doing this for several years. Now let me tell you why you're wrong:

 

Burn-in is a real thing that can happen almost at random if an image stays on screen for too long. Every individual set is different, and some burn in much faster than others even in the same model. Burn-in happens often. The most common things to burn in are health bars and the LG logo. Pixel shift will not save you. The pixel refresh will not save you. Your screen will likely burn in within 12 months, and guess what? LG, Phillips, Panasonic, and Sony don't cover it on their warranties.

 

Now for your individual points:

 

Sony LEDs are objectively the best LEDs as a whole this year, so you are correct.

Samsungs from last year are mostly the same as this year, with exception of the KS series, all of which use split panels and have a high failure rate. Avoid unless you intend on buying protection.

Correct, QLEDs are overpriced, but still good TVs.

Panasonic has more often than not released garbage TVs since plasma was rendered obsolete. Avoid.

 

Most cheaper brands available in the US are 8-bit (NOT HDR) , suffer from high input lag, or both. Good for guest rooms, not for gaming.

 

Also, nice pick on your TV.

Holy shit, this is a nice insight!

Glad to have you in the community, i hope you can help me next year to choose my new TV.

Oh, thanks. If you have any questions, just message me. I'm always glad to help.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames