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Looking into a 4K TV, any recommendations?

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kowenicki said:

But of course VGC ends up saying "buy a sony!!!"

If you must go LED, buy a samsung QLED.   Simple.

 

kowenicki said:
Seem to like these guys here so.....

www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/video-gaming

Do you not read the things you link?

More Versatile Alternative

Sony X900E

If you're not very sensitive to input lag or if you simply play games more casually, the Sony X900E is a good alternative to the Vizio P Series. It offers a more versatile set of features to fit a more varied usage. It doesn't have quite as low an input lag as the P Series with standard video games, but it doesn't suffer from higher latencies with HDR games, making it better suited for those looking to invest in an HDR capable console in the near future.


Sometimes I get hooked on a game for a long time. Like Elite Damgerous 9 months continuously, game running for many hours a day, in the background while doing other stuff. Same with racing games. Now I leave GT Sport on with the timer countdown, do the occasional sport race when it's up then it sits idle again for 20 minutes or more with the Tag Heuer logo right in the middle. Do I want to worry about switching inputs frequently for a small gain in image quality that might not even last over the lifetime of the tv? Would you recommend it to people playing the same online games year round for hours every night?

I'm sure damage won't be as fast or extreme as that test shows. However what they prove is that the tv shows wear from day one. All you can do is make sure to distribute that wear evenly. Yet image quality is still slowly degrading from day 1. As a living room tv that sees over 10 hours a day of use and is expected to be used for 10 years, that doesn't sound all that great. LED maintains proper white balance during it's lifespan, and although LG claims OLED can now match the 100,000 hour lifespan of LCD, this test shows that its clearly showing wear much faster than LCD.



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Azuren said:
kowenicki said:

Testing last years models, also testing in ridiculous conditions imo.  But anyway, from this very test where they actually recommend the LG as the best TV for gaming (lol):

 

Hi, why not do the burn-in test on a newer model OLED since they say they "fixed" / "improved" the problem?

Thank you for your question. Unfortunately, our resources are limited and we couldn't justify the costs of buying an additional LG C7 for this test (we still require our review unit for the rest of the year). While it is true that more modern models might have some features to slow-down image retention and reduce the speed at which it happens, it is our understanding that aging is an inherent limitation of OLED technology that to this day has not been completely solved.

 

and more importantly...


I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

  

    

But of course VGC ends up saying "buy a sony!!!"

If you must go LED, buy a samsung QLED.   Simple.

Ridiculous conditions? Good job reading the test instead of just getting upset that the OLED is failing the rest.

What are you even trying to say here? These conditions are nothing like what any sane person would put their OLED through...

Throughout this thread all you've done is vent bile on OLED & owners thereof - it's like it makes you feel good or something...

Your views are so imbalanced that even though it is pointed out to you that on the very same page you link to, the outlet actually recommend OLED as the best TV for gaming - that all you can do is immediately aim an unfounded statement that they don't understand the test... amazing! You could have actually, you know - engaged with his actual point...

I've witnessed plenty of rabid fanboyism of console manufacturers but TV technology - really...?

I can understand that you have an issue with the technology - fair enough, there are definitely pros & cons, but go back and read your comments and more importantly note the tone of them - there's something else going on there...



Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

Ridiculous conditions? Good job reading the test instead of just getting upset that the OLED is failing the rest.

What are you even trying to say here? These conditions are nothing like what any sane person would put their OLED through...

Throughout this thread all you've done is vent bile on OLED & owners thereof - it's like it makes you feel good or something...

Your views are so imbalanced that even though it is pointed out to you that on the very same page you link to, the outlet actually recommend OLED as the best TV for gaming - that all you can do is immediately aim an unfounded statement that they don't understand the test... amazing! You could have actually, you know - engaged with his actual point...

I've witnessed plenty of rabid fanboyism of console manufacturers but TV technology - really...?

I can understand that you have an issue with the technology - fair enough, there are definitely pros & cons, but go back and read your comments and more importantly note the tone of them - there's something else going on there...

Half of the logos that are burnt-in had run 2 hours on, 3.5 hours off. The VA and IPS running alongside the TV had no issue not burning in with even the torture tests, but the OLED can't even handle the gaming test.

 

Not only that, but the lower brightness is supposed to reduce burn-in, and it's been running with pixel shift active. OLED was given every opportunity to pass at least the standard 50% opacity test (10 minutes on, 2 minutes off), but it didn't.

Last edited by Azuren - on 28 November 2017

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kowenicki said:
Seem to like these guys here so.....

www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/video-gaming

Just as a side note, expect a heavy drop in gaming score for the OLEDs next month when they add Burn-in to the scoring process (that is the point of this test, after all-time to deduce the difference between burn-in on different panel technologies).



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

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I bought mine in october of last year. The Sony XBR-X800D.  But if I was to buy one right now, based on a similar budget I allowed myself to spend last year, I'd most likely go for this:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900e

Which is offered in the 49", 55", 65" and 75" brackets.

As for the PS4 Pro upgrade being worthwhile or not, I'd say it depends on the games you play. Horizon, GTS and FF XV, three games I play, all look phenomenal in Pro mode. Especially Horizon, with its unmatched use of 4k checkerboard, and a HDR implementation second only to GTS.

I see quite a difference between 1080p games and games that have a resolution boost via their Pro patch. And I wish all games would have that kind of added picture quality. I play Persona 5 right now, and while it still looks quite good thanks to its bombastic visual style, there are a lot of jaggies. 

The Pro isn't a game changer, and isn't necessary depending on your gaming needs, but I do enjoy the added picture fidelity as well as the performance boost it provides for some games. There are more and more games making use of the added horsepower of the Pro, and with The Last of Us 2 coming out eventually, I'll be set to enjoy it the way it was meant to be experienced.

Last edited by Hynad - on 28 November 2017

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Azuren said:
Biggerboat1 said:

What are you even trying to say here? These conditions are nothing like what any sane person would put their OLED through...

Throughout this thread all you've done is vent bile on OLED & owners thereof - it's like it makes you feel good or something...

Your views are so imbalanced that even though it is pointed out to you that on the very same page you link to, the outlet actually recommend OLED as the best TV for gaming - that all you can do is immediately aim an unfounded statement that they don't understand the test... amazing! You could have actually, you know - engaged with his actual point...

I've witnessed plenty of rabid fanboyism of console manufacturers but TV technology - really...?

I can understand that you have an issue with the technology - fair enough, there are definitely pros & cons, but go back and read your comments and more importantly note the tone of them - there's something else going on there...

Half of the logos that are burnt-in had run 2 hours on, 3.5 hours off. The VA and IPS running alongside the TV had no issue not burning in with even the torture tests, but the OLED can't even handle the gaming test.

 

Not only that, but the lower brightness is supposed to reduce burn-in, and it's been running with pixel shift active. OLED was given every opportunity to pass at least the standard 50% opacity test (10 minutes on, 2 minutes off), but it didn't.

Already posted above :

 

I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

 

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

 



SvennoJ said:
Slimebeast said:
OLED picture quality just is so much above everything else.

Slightly bitter people who recently bought LED TVs from other manufacturers because the OLEDs were still quite high price in 2016 will tell you otherwise though.

1500 euro currently for a 55 inch LG B7V OLED is dirty cheap for the revolution you get.

Blame the stores if you think that. I've looked at OLED and quality LEDS side by side in multiple shops, picture wasn't much above. Better blacks on screens with mostly black, yet with normal programming it looked about the same.

Perhaps the slightly bitter people are those who forked out more for an OLED while having to worry about responsible use for not much extra gain ;)

Stores are never a good place to look at pitcture quality. The rooms are horrible lighting, the TV's are set on a setting that is not one you would want at home, ect.

Responsible use? You do realize gaming consoles have settings that do some sort of flicker so often to prevent any IR burn in. MY Xbox asked about this pretty sure when set it up. Also the game mode screen setting on the tv does the same. I've not onced fussed over my TV since I had it and have had no burn in. Whatever TV these days is better than the gen 1 plasmas for burn in. Hell even the most latest plasmas had practically already fixed their burn in.

Feel like anyone getting burn in are those that have their desktop on their screen all day every day.



irstupid said:
SvennoJ said:

Blame the stores if you think that. I've looked at OLED and quality LEDS side by side in multiple shops, picture wasn't much above. Better blacks on screens with mostly black, yet with normal programming it looked about the same.

Perhaps the slightly bitter people are those who forked out more for an OLED while having to worry about responsible use for not much extra gain ;)

Stores are never a good place to look at pitcture quality. The rooms are horrible lighting, the TV's are set on a setting that is not one you would want at home, ect.

Responsible use? You do realize gaming consoles have settings that do some sort of flicker so often to prevent any IR burn in. MY Xbox asked about this pretty sure when set it up. Also the game mode screen setting on the tv does the same. I've not onced fussed over my TV since I had it and have had no burn in. Whatever TV these days is better than the gen 1 plasmas for burn in. Hell even the most latest plasmas had practically already fixed their burn in.

Feel like anyone getting burn in are those that have their desktop on their screen all day every day.

Indeed. All the sets found in stores have their backlight set to max or near their max, with dynamic contrast and other "picture boosting" features activated. This is what we call "torch mode" in the jargon, and TV manufacturers come up with these picture settings to make their sets look more catchy/attractive in environments that have a lot of lighting (store lighting, other TVs and whatnot) from all sides of the sets, as well as to fight against glare and reflection.

You can't properly judge the quality of a TV when you see them "as is" at the stores. 

Last edited by Hynad - on 28 November 2017

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Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

Half of the logos that are burnt-in had run 2 hours on, 3.5 hours off. The VA and IPS running alongside the TV had no issue not burning in with even the torture tests, but the OLED can't even handle the gaming test.

 

Not only that, but the lower brightness is supposed to reduce burn-in, and it's been running with pixel shift active. OLED was given every opportunity to pass at least the standard 50% opacity test (10 minutes on, 2 minutes off), but it didn't.

Already posted above :

 

I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

 

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

 

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Azuren said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Already posted above :

 

I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

 

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

 

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?

Which makes sense as is obviously a negative aspect of the technology, but it is only one aspect and only under certain conditions that according to them "we expect this to not be a problem for most people"

 

Now, can you actually answer my point or do you prefer to simply deflect by answering questions with questions?