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Justice League Reviews - 46 Metacritic (49 Critics) - 39% RottenTomatoes (228 Critics)

Forums - Movies Discussion - Justice League Reviews - 46 Metacritic (49 Critics) - 39% RottenTomatoes (228 Critics)

irstupid said:
Nymeria said:

I thought BvS was a real mixed bag of trying to do too much and I wasn't crazy about the tone or interpretation of Superman.

Suicide Squad just felt like a mess of a film that did nothing for me.

I adore Wonder Woman even if the end played it safe.

Justice League is a solid movie that felt like a soft reboot in tone.  I really noticed the color and brightness being cranked up.  Its main flaws are a very by the numbers plot and feeling a bit rushed.  They got Wonder Woman and Superman right for me though, so helped it immensely in my estimation.

BvS - 5/10, SS - 2/10, WW - 9/10, JL - 7/10

I really don't get people saying they all of a sudden got superman right.

What did they do in this movie that they didn't in others? Lets go over Superman in this movie. Spoilers below obviously.

1. Cell Footage of Superman talking to kids after saving stuff. (Stands around looking heroic and not answering questions. Is this it?)

2. First scene is his resurrection. He is evil. He fights the league and threatens to kill Batman. (Clearly Superman right)

3. Next scene is Farm scene. Scene looked identical to a dozen scenes from MoS/BvS. (According to you, he was not superman in those movies, so it can't be here that we finally see superman.)

4. Shows up for final fight. Makes a cheesy entrance saying "Truth, I believe in truth, and Justice" Then he just beats the shit out of Steppenwolf easily. During fight leaves to save some people. He did that in Man of Steel as well. Oh and he makes a joke about wanting to die after splitting boxes. 

5. We see clark run into ally and rip open his shirt to fly off and save stuff. (I assume this one 3 second scene is what your talking about) Though why didn't his montage of saving stuff in BvS not count?

6. Superman races Flash.

So what was it that made him so much more Supermany in this movie?

That face when Supes ask...do you bleed. Bizzaro.....



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GameAnalyser said:
irstupid said:

I really don't get people saying they all of a sudden got superman right.

What did they do in this movie that they didn't in others? Lets go over Superman in this movie. Spoilers below obviously.

1. Cell Footage of Superman talking to kids after saving stuff. (Stands around looking heroic and not answering questions. Is this it?)

2. First scene is his resurrection. He is evil. He fights the league and threatens to kill Batman. (Clearly Superman right)

3. Next scene is Farm scene. Scene looked identical to a dozen scenes from MoS/BvS. (According to you, he was not superman in those movies, so it can't be here that we finally see superman.)

4. Shows up for final fight. Makes a cheesy entrance saying "Truth, I believe in truth, and Justice" Then he just beats the shit out of Steppenwolf easily. During fight leaves to save some people. He did that in Man of Steel as well. Oh and he makes a joke about wanting to die after splitting boxes. 

5. We see clark run into ally and rip open his shirt to fly off and save stuff. (I assume this one 3 second scene is what your talking about) Though why didn't his montage of saving stuff in BvS not count?

6. Superman races Flash.

So what was it that made him so much more Supermany in this movie?

That face when Supes ask...do you bleed. Bizzaro.....

Ha, if this universe was as successful as Marvel and they were able to do a Bizzaro, that would be a perfect way of doing superman. Have him film all his Superman scenes normally, then have him grow a mustache for the CG team to edit out for all of his Bizarro scenes. Then the scenes were there was something bugging you about superman just looking off for some reason would be perfect.



irstupid said:
Nymeria said:

I thought BvS was a real mixed bag of trying to do too much and I wasn't crazy about the tone or interpretation of Superman.

Suicide Squad just felt like a mess of a film that did nothing for me.

I adore Wonder Woman even if the end played it safe.

Justice League is a solid movie that felt like a soft reboot in tone.  I really noticed the color and brightness being cranked up.  Its main flaws are a very by the numbers plot and feeling a bit rushed.  They got Wonder Woman and Superman right for me though, so helped it immensely in my estimation.

BvS - 5/10, SS - 2/10, WW - 9/10, JL - 7/10

I really don't get people saying they all of a sudden got superman right.

What did they do in this movie that they didn't in others? Lets go over Superman in this movie. Spoilers below obviously.

1. Cell Footage of Superman talking to kids after saving stuff. (Stands around looking heroic and not answering questions. Is this it?)

2. First scene is his resurrection. He is evil. He fights the league and threatens to kill Batman. (Clearly Superman right)

3. Next scene is Farm scene. Scene looked identical to a dozen scenes from MoS/BvS. (According to you, he was not superman in those movies, so it can't be here that we finally see superman.)

4. Shows up for final fight. Makes a cheesy entrance saying "Truth, I believe in truth, and Justice" Then he just beats the shit out of Steppenwolf easily. During fight leaves to save some people. He did that in Man of Steel as well. Oh and he makes a joke about wanting to die after splitting boxes. 

5. We see clark run into ally and rip open his shirt to fly off and save stuff. (I assume this one 3 second scene is what your talking about) Though why didn't his montage of saving stuff in BvS not count?

6. Superman races Flash.

So what was it that made him so much more Supermany in this movie?

1. Yes. He expressed a sense of calm understanding with the excited kids. It was equivalent of a good father exercising patience.

2. The rebirth scene I excuse because they state he is "not himself" until Lois shows up. I personally did not like "Do you bleed?" call back.

3. This was a neutral scene, and yes those existed in MoS and BvS as well. I didn't dislike everything about those movies.

4. Yes. I eat that cheese up. He seemed happy to be there, confident in his role and wanting to help. I loved that building scene.

5. That montage scene in BvS was maybe the saddest thing I've seen in a super hero movie. It is so dour and gloomy like a reluctant hero obligated to do these things. It belonged more in Watchman (which had an excellent opening credit montage where that tone fit that world) than it did Superman.

6. That was great too, he had great rapport with Flash acting as a leader bringing along a young nervous hero.

A lot of what made it what it is is what it wasn't.  I didn't see people hating Superman or being told not to save people because he owes them nothing.  The coloring in this was much more saturated and bright making him pop like Wonder Woman in her solo movie.  His only negative scene is explained via plot, but he snaps out of it and isn't fighting friends or in anguish.  The worst part of BvS was I watched Superman die and I felt nothing, it seemed like release for a poor soul who suffered and was unappreciated by our world.  My hope is we see the seeds here to really show a Superman who inspires us past cynicism to the best aspects of our nature.

Superman has been around now for nearly a century. He has had countless versions across media of him.  I've always been partial to Reeves 1978 I grew up with.  I understand if people find that "lame" or "corny" but that is what I love about him. Batman can be all the angst and darkness anti-hero mold, Superman compliments that with hope, and for the first time in a long time I felt hope watching him. I cannot tell you how to feel watching images on a  screen, I can only rely my own.



Nymeria said:
irstupid said:

I really don't get people saying they all of a sudden got superman right.

What did they do in this movie that they didn't in others? Lets go over Superman in this movie. Spoilers below obviously.

1. Cell Footage of Superman talking to kids after saving stuff. (Stands around looking heroic and not answering questions. Is this it?)

2. First scene is his resurrection. He is evil. He fights the league and threatens to kill Batman. (Clearly Superman right)

3. Next scene is Farm scene. Scene looked identical to a dozen scenes from MoS/BvS. (According to you, he was not superman in those movies, so it can't be here that we finally see superman.)

4. Shows up for final fight. Makes a cheesy entrance saying "Truth, I believe in truth, and Justice" Then he just beats the shit out of Steppenwolf easily. During fight leaves to save some people. He did that in Man of Steel as well. Oh and he makes a joke about wanting to die after splitting boxes. 

5. We see clark run into ally and rip open his shirt to fly off and save stuff. (I assume this one 3 second scene is what your talking about) Though why didn't his montage of saving stuff in BvS not count?

6. Superman races Flash.

So what was it that made him so much more Supermany in this movie?

1. Yes. He expressed a sense of calm understanding with the excited kids. It was equivalent of a good father exercising patience.

How about his interview with Lois Lane in Man of Steel. That scene was better imo than this kid one.

2. The rebirth scene I excuse because they state he is "not himself" until Lois shows up. I personally did not like "Do you bleed?" call back.

3. This was a neutral scene, and yes those existed in MoS and BvS as well. I didn't dislike everything about those movies.

4. Yes. I eat that cheese up. He seemed happy to be there, confident in his role and wanting to help. I loved that building scene.

The building scene was a gag. That was it. Superman was just a small outline of a person on it. Not to mention the building could not be carried like that. Realism breakage there. Didn't need that family at all, or civilians there.

5. That montage scene in BvS was maybe the saddest thing I've seen in a super hero movie. It is so dour and gloomy like a reluctant hero obligated to do these things. It belonged more in Watchman (which had an excellent opening credit montage where that tone fit that world) than it did Superman.

I thought it was good. Showed how he is doing good and yet the world is questioning him, his motive, can he do that in foreign countries, ect. Should he be smiling when he is saving people that have lost evertyhing? It looked stupid as F when he started fighting Steppenwolf and as he was dodging in slow motion he had this big grin on his face. Since when do people not deadpool smile during big fights?

6. That was great too, he had great rapport with Flash acting as a leader bringing along a young nervous hero.

Might as well be a Marvel movie eh? Shitty movie, but 10 second end credit scene makes people forget whole thing.

A lot of what made it what it is is what it wasn't.  I didn't see people hating Superman or being told not to save people because he owes them nothing.  The coloring in this was much more saturated and bright making him pop like Wonder Woman in her solo movie.  His only negative scene is explained via plot, but he snaps out of it and isn't fighting friends or in anguish.  The worst part of BvS was I watched Superman die and I felt nothing, it seemed like release for a poor soul who suffered and was unappreciated by our world.  My hope is we see the seeds here to really show a Superman who inspires us past cynicism to the best aspects of our nature.

The saturation was glaring. It broke me out of the movie. The scene would be one color and then all of a sudden it was like there was a filter on supermans scene to make him look more bright red/blue. You know the same suit used as before, but to make it look classic just up saturation. It was bad. I didn't mind the brighter colors on him, just the method to do it was bad.

The best part of Supermans death was that he was underappreciated by our world. This wasn't a celebrity loved by all sacrificing himself, it was a man that was constantly being told by everyone that everything he does is wrong. No matter his intentinos he is doing something wrong. As Martha says, he doesn't owe the world anything, yet despite that he gave the world everything. He gave the world his life.

Now obviously if you didn't like Superman in those movies, then of course his death would mean nothing. Doesn't matter how emotional a death is or meaningful or whatever, if the person watching doesn't like the character. I liked him, and though this death was done very proper. Much better than being say a 4th stand alone movie and all about doomsday. Talk about telegraphing your death. Even though we all knew doomsday was in this movie due to trailers, no one expected his death cause its "too soon" as you all say. To that too soon, I say it was like 5 1/2 hours of Superman. That is like 3 movies worth.

Be like if Iron Man dies in an upcoming movie. I woupdnt care. If he died in Avengers 1 during his sacrifice i would have. But now, dont care. 

Superman has been around now for nearly a century. He has had countless versions across media of him.  I've always been partial to Reeves 1978 I grew up with.  I understand if people find that "lame" or "corny" but that is what I love about him. Batman can be all the angst and darkness anti-hero mold, Superman compliments that with hope, and for the first time in a long time I felt hope watching him. I cannot tell you how to feel watching images on a  screen, I can only rely my own.

Reeves isn't corny, just as Batman in the 60's isn't corny. They are just versions of the characters for that time. I will say though that that show and movies are bad. I mean reversing time, kissing to make people forget, throwing superman shields. Batman has the fault of being a TV show, every TV show ends up with a dozen horrible episodes and a billion cringy moments even Game of Thrones.

Last edited by irstupid - on 20 November 2017

We have difference of opinions based on personal bias of what we desire from a character. I'm not going to say you're wrong, just that we have different tastes in Superman. I like seeing him save people, comfort them, and be beloved for his contribution to make us better by his example. Can call things unrealistic due to physics, but my suspension of disbelief shifts in a movie about an alien that flies and shoots lasers out of his eyes. Superman is about an emotion, he embodies hope and for me when that fails I feel disconnected from the character and movie.

I don't expect to change your mind and I respect your different interpretation even if I disagree with your conclusions. I can watch X-Men and appreciate outcast heroes hated by society, I can watch Punisher kill people and take no issue. I turn to golden age heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and feel inspired that the world can be made better. I don't even mind alternative takes like Kingdom Come or Injustice as thought experiments, but as core telling of these characters I do prefer classic iterations.



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Nymeria said:
We have difference of opinions based on personal bias of what we desire from a character. I'm not going to say you're wrong, just that we have different tastes in Superman. I like seeing him save people, comfort them, and be beloved for his contribution to make us better by his example. Can call things unrealistic due to physics, but my suspension of disbelief shifts in a movie about an alien that flies and shoots lasers out of his eyes. Superman is about an emotion, he embodies hope and for me when that fails I feel disconnected from the character and movie.

I don't expect to change your mind and I respect your different interpretation even if I disagree with your conclusions. I can watch X-Men and appreciate outcast heroes hated by society, I can watch Punisher kill people and take no issue. I turn to golden age heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and feel inspired that the world can be made better. I don't even mind alternative takes like Kingdom Come or Injustice as thought experiments, but as core telling of these characters I do prefer classic iterations.

I'll agree with that.

 

BTW, some petition made by fans to get Zack Snyder cut released. It's like 75k signatures right now. Both Snyder and Batmans stunt double have signed it.

I signed it. Not because I hate the Justice League movie, but I don't like it when directors don't get to share their visions. I would like to see how Zack Snyders trilogy was completed. I want to see his vision.

I hated all this talk of course correction when Wheden was on. That is going to just going to make no one happy. Those that like Snyder's vision will be upset in the abrubt change in the final of a trilogy. Those that hate Snyder have to still deal with the fact that Mos/BvS are still a part of this DCEU. Their favorite Superman/Batman still killed people, or Doomsday was shit or Martha stopped the fight, ect. whatever complaints they have.

So why not just finish Justice League as was and if that bombed, then Reboot?



irstupid said:
Nymeria said:
We have difference of opinions based on personal bias of what we desire from a character. I'm not going to say you're wrong, just that we have different tastes in Superman. I like seeing him save people, comfort them, and be beloved for his contribution to make us better by his example. Can call things unrealistic due to physics, but my suspension of disbelief shifts in a movie about an alien that flies and shoots lasers out of his eyes. Superman is about an emotion, he embodies hope and for me when that fails I feel disconnected from the character and movie.

I don't expect to change your mind and I respect your different interpretation even if I disagree with your conclusions. I can watch X-Men and appreciate outcast heroes hated by society, I can watch Punisher kill people and take no issue. I turn to golden age heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and feel inspired that the world can be made better. I don't even mind alternative takes like Kingdom Come or Injustice as thought experiments, but as core telling of these characters I do prefer classic iterations.

I'll agree with that.

 

BTW, some petition made by fans to get Zack Snyder cut released. It's like 75k signatures right now. Both Snyder and Batmans stunt double have signed it.

I signed it. Not because I hate the Justice League movie, but I don't like it when directors don't get to share their visions. I would like to see how Zack Snyders trilogy was completed. I want to see his vision.

I hated all this talk of course correction when Wheden was on. That is going to just going to make no one happy. Those that like Snyder's vision will be upset in the abrubt change in the final of a trilogy. Those that hate Snyder have to still deal with the fact that Mos/BvS are still a part of this DCEU. Their favorite Superman/Batman still killed people, or Doomsday was shit or Martha stopped the fight, ect. whatever complaints they have.

So why not just finish Justice League as was and if that bombed, then Reboot?

WB was so arrogant that they thought they could just do changes their ways that made them feel comfortable by distancing from Zack. Bringing in Joss Whedon that MCU already phased out as a director post Utron was actually the move that royally backfired. The amount of time JW was given to oversee the reshoots and the editing was  a ridiculous 5-6 month frame. WB technically had no clue what further damage they were doing to the brand, post Snyder exit.

This movie should ideally have been postponed by WB to allow  more room for Snyder to recoup and return. None of the Danny Elfman/2hr/scenes being cut would have come to fruition if WB were patient enough to salvage it genuinely.  Two movies that emanated out of a singular vision were basically building everything on a tone set by Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL score. That being ditched was the biggest mistake WB ever opted for.  I personally feel the run-time mandate by CEO was that hard blow beyond repair, which led to many Snyder shots ending up on the cutting room floor. If WB had to learn this the hard way, it better be so as they repeatedly failed to entrust to the Director's vision. The third act and the CGI wouldn't have popped up the same way it did, had Snyder been on board to oversee final editing with VFX team. JL potentially could have worked more favorably as the success that MOS was where Snyder had full creative control. After all that movie earned  an A- cinemascore  and great praise from few critics.