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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Switch and Nintendo hardware


The_Liquid_Laser said:
zorg1000 said:

Software pacing is very important. Here is when those franchises released on Wii U

 

3D Mario-Nov 2013

Mario Kart-May 2014

Splatoon-May 2015

Zelda-Mar 2017

 

VS Switch

 

Zelda-Mar 2017

Mario Kart-Apr 2017

Splatoon-July 2017

3D Mario-Oct 2017

 

Those games released like a year apart on Wii U while all 4 released within 8 months of each other on Switch.

A steady stream of good software certainly doesn't hurt, but a killer app moves hardware much more than pacing does.  Pacing actually helps more in keeping people on the console they already own.  People used to joke that they would put the Wii in their closet and never get it out.  That's what happens when there is a pacing problem.  Gamers get tired of their console and start looking for a new one.

All of those games listed above are worth a $60 price tag, but they may not be worth a $360 price tag.  That is why a killer app is needed, a game so good that customers will want to lay down the full $360.  Mario Kart, 3D Mario, and Splatoon were all available on one console starting May 2015 (along with several other good games), but that was still not enough to get most people to buy.  Take Zelda out of the equation and the Wii U's library is better May 2015 than the Switch's library is now.  So why is the Switch in so much higher demand?  It must be Zelda.

Both are extremely important, most people wont buy a console for a single game, for most people a console needs a steady flow of games that interest them.

You are oversimplying things, there is alot more than just Zelda that is causing Switch to be more desirable than Wii U.

1. The overall hardware concept. The ability to seamlessly switch between console and handheld mode and play anywhere is very appealing. The same cannot be said for the Wii U gamepad which had like a 15ft range and really added little to the experience.

2. Marketing/branding/advertising. Switch is marketed to multiple demographics and advertised all over the place and the branding makes it clear its a brand new device. Wii U was marketed almost exclusively to kids/families and advertised almost exclusively on childrens television networks and continuing with the Wii brand (which was in heavy decline at this point) either turned people away or made them think it was an expensive add-on.

3. Software output. You're right that individual system sellers are important but a system also needs a steady flow of quality titles ranging from small, medium and big. Switch has had a medium-large sized exclusive basically every month along with a handful of smaller indie titles on a weekly basis. Wii U would generally go a few months between notable releases.

4. Price. You might be thinking they both cost $299, how is that an advantage for Switch? Well if a console has appealing hardware, a strong software lineup and well executed marketing/advertising than $299 is a great price, however if all those things are poor than $299 is expensive.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:

The_Liquid_Laser said:

A steady stream of good software certainly doesn't hurt, but a killer app moves hardware much more than pacing does.  Pacing actually helps more in keeping people on the console they already own.  People used to joke that they would put the Wii in their closet and never get it out.  That's what happens when there is a pacing problem.  Gamers get tired of their console and start looking for a new one.

All of those games listed above are worth a $60 price tag, but they may not be worth a $360 price tag.  That is why a killer app is needed, a game so good that customers will want to lay down the full $360.  Mario Kart, 3D Mario, and Splatoon were all available on one console starting May 2015 (along with several other good games), but that was still not enough to get most people to buy.  Take Zelda out of the equation and the Wii U's library is better May 2015 than the Switch's library is now.  So why is the Switch in so much higher demand?  It must be Zelda.

Both are extremely important, most people wont buy a console for a single game, for most people a console needs a steady flow of games that interest them.

You are oversimplying things, there is alot more than just Zelda that is causing Switch to be more desirable than Wii U.

1. The overall hardware concept. The ability to seamlessly switch between console and handheld mode and play anywhere is very appealing. The same cannot be said for the Wii U gamepad which had like a 15ft range and really added little to the experience.

2. Marketing/branding/advertising. Switch is marketed to multiple demographics and advertised all over the place and the branding makes it clear its a brand new device. Wii  U was marketed almost exclusively to kids/families and advertised almost exclusively on childrens television networks and continuing with the Wii brand (which was in heavy decline at this point) either turned people away or made them think it was an expensive add-on.

3. Software output. You're right that individual system sellers are important but a system also needs a steady flow of quality titles ranging from small, medium and big. Switch has had a medium-large sized exclusive basically every month along with a handful of smaller indie titles on a weekly basis. Wii U would generally go a few months between notable releases.

4. Price. You might be thinking they both cost $299, how is that an advantage for Switch? Well if a console has appealing hardware, a strong software lineup and well executed marketing/advertising than $299 is a great price, however if all those things are poor than $299 is expensive.

I agree with all of your points except we have a subtly different view on your #3.  It is the amount of quality titles that matter more than the pacing.  For example if a person bought a Wii U three years after release then pacing wouldn't matter at all, because there would be a 3 year backlog of games to choose from.  The main reason why a person wouldn't buy a Wii U at after 3 or more years is if they didn't really like the collection of games to begin with.  (Most people clearly did not like the collection of Wii U games.)  

Right now the Switch is on track to outsell the Wii U's entire lifetime in just 1 fiscal year.  What is the difference?  Most of the major games on the Switch are similar to Wii U games.  The only game that would make a difference is Zelda. 

I agree with all of your points though and I would say that #1 is the factor that will have the biggest long term effect.  Switch is going to sell to both the handheld and home markets.  But I don't think that is why Switch is selling so fast right out of the gate.  Zelda is accelerating sales.  Next year the Zelda effect will be gone, and Switch sales will slow down somewhat until Pokemon comes out.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
zorg1000 said:

Both are extremely important, most people wont buy a console for a single game, for most people a console needs a steady flow of games that interest them.

You are oversimplying things, there is alot more than just Zelda that is causing Switch to be more desirable than Wii U.

1. The overall hardware concept. The ability to seamlessly switch between console and handheld mode and play anywhere is very appealing. The same cannot be said for the Wii U gamepad which had like a 15ft range and really added little to the experience.

2. Marketing/branding/advertising. Switch is marketed to multiple demographics and advertised all over the place and the branding makes it clear its a brand new device. Wii  U was marketed almost exclusively to kids/families and advertised almost exclusively on childrens television networks and continuing with the Wii brand (which was in heavy decline at this point) either turned people away or made them think it was an expensive add-on.

3. Software output. You're right that individual system sellers are important but a system also needs a steady flow of quality titles ranging from small, medium and big. Switch has had a medium-large sized exclusive basically every month along with a handful of smaller indie titles on a weekly basis. Wii U would generally go a few months between notable releases.

4. Price. You might be thinking they both cost $299, how is that an advantage for Switch? Well if a console has appealing hardware, a strong software lineup and well executed marketing/advertising than $299 is a great price, however if all those things are poor than $299 is expensive.

I agree with all of your points except we have a subtly different view on your #3.  It is the amount of quality titles that matter more than the pacing.  For example if a person bought a Wii U three years after release then pacing wouldn't matter at all, because there would be a 3 year backlog of games to choose from.  The main reason why a person wouldn't buy a Wii U at after 3 or more years is if they didn't really like the collection of games to begin with.  (Most people clearly did not like the collection of Wii U games.)  

Right now the Switch is on track to outsell the Wii U's entire lifetime in just 1 fiscal year.  What is the difference?  Most of the major games on the Switch are similar to Wii U games.  The only game that would make a difference is Zelda. 

I agree with all of your points though and I would say that #1 is the factor that will have the biggest long term effect.  Switch is going to sell to both the handheld and home markets.  But I don't think that is why Switch is selling so fast right out of the gate.  Zelda is accelerating sales.  Next year the Zelda effect will be gone, and Switch sales will slow down somewhat until Pokemon comes out.

Pacing is definitely a big factor, I agree that Zelda is a major system seller but if Switch had a 6-8 month post launch drought like Wii U had than sales would not have remained so high during the summer/fall.

As for Wii U library after 3 years, the damage was done by that point, the console had 3 years of negative press and it was pretty clear that it had no long term future. But even with all the issues Wii U had, about ~14 million people bought one to play about a half dozen major Nintendo games so they were in fact system sellers.

 

You ask what is the difference between Switch and Wii U, well like i said its a combination of superior hardware, marketing/advertising, software output, and percieved value.

Its not just Zelda, Splatoon 2 has sold nearly twice as much as Zelda in Japan. Globally Mario Kart is only a few 100k behind Zelda despite releasing about 2 months later and Odyssey will overtake it in the long run.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Mandalore76 said:
Slarvax said:

More like Wii U + 3DS losses to Switch + Mobile profits

?  Nintendo has profited on every 3DS sale since July 25, 2012.  It's global hardware and software sales propped up the company to annual profits in 2015 and 2016 before Nintendo's entrance into the mobile market or Switch came on the scene this year.

If 3DS sold before then weren't profitable, than the Switch only has to sell around 60 million at a profit to be better, not 80M



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

spurgeonryan said:
Munchies said:
Lmao.

You think 80 million is too much?

No, I have high hopes for the Switch actually. I think it's trending above Nintendo's average console and it has potential to do better than last-gen hardware.

I posted "Lmao." because the OP accidentally posted the thread before finishing it, so it was incomplete. 



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Nem said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
So Nem is a Kerotan alt? Nice.

Well, the Switch will sell 100M, so 80M as a marker doesn't concern me.

Everyone is keeping it civil, so don't start nonsense hm?

No one makes an alt 5 years in advance.

That's the sneaky way of doing it. Very clever of you.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

flashfire926 said:
Nem said:

Correct.

It would be interesting to know Nintendo's expectations, but no matter what happens they will always claim it to be a success.

But i think it makes sense thinking that if it sells very south of Wii U+3DS it would be a disappointment. I wanted to know what the perception is though. There's many factors that come into how successful a system is, wich i am not considering here, in particular software sales.

I don't think sales is the real metric of success, it's profit earned. If people remember, 3DS got a huge price cut a few months after launch of sluggish sales. At $169, did each 3DS earn the same as every switch? Probably not. Chances are, switch's profit margin is much higher, and let's say 40 million switch units earned the same as 60 million 3DS units, cause of a higher profit margin. (I'm just giving these numbers as a ballpark guess, nothing confirmed)

For profit probably game sales are more important. So lower profit on the hardware may be irrelevant if games sell fabulous.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Slownenberg said:
Nem said:

Hey guys.

So, it has become apparant to me with several game announcements and teases that the Switch is looking like it will suceed the 3DS aswell as the Wii U.

This means that the Switch would have to sell about 80m to match the combined Wii U+3DS sales.

What do you think? Will the switch sell above 80m or will Nintendo launch a sucessor to the 3DS?

Would you still consider the Switch a sucess if it didn't reach those numbers? I'm curious to know what people think.

You JUST realized this? You didn't realize this when the Switch was announced a year ago??!

Personally I think yes Switch will sell at least 80 million. Though I already consider it a success now. It's a fantastic system (really the perfect system if I were to come up with the design for a perfect system the Switch is it - outside of the still crappy Nintendo online gaming setup), with great games, selling loads, and a bright future.

Yes. I only realized when portable game sequels started to get announced for it.

I am pretty sure that everyone was seeing how the Switch was gonna do before putting all their eggs on it. Even Nintendo themselves.

But sure, we can pretend this was always a sure thing.



couchmonkey said:
VAMatt said:

The thing is PS4 sold better than PS3 (so far) and XB1 is just a bit behind X360 numbers (though it has fallen off this year, it seems likely that the XBX will fuel a strong Q4 and bring it back in line).   Certainly handhelds are in a tough space, as mobile gaming has taken hold.  But, I don't see any evidence that home console sales are in bad shape, or even declining significantly industry-wide.  

                       

For my two cents, everyone keeps on blaming mobile for poor sales of handhelds, but if mobile is the wave of the future, could it be even worse for home consoles?  Will the tablet-loving kid of today buy a TV set at all?

Personally, I think weak economics and big miss-steps also play a factor in 3DS sales, at least.  The 3DS launch year was awful, I sold my launch system that Christmas to try to get some of my money back, with nothing but Street Fighter IV to show for like 7 months of ownership.  I don't think 3DS ever fully recovered, which is reflected in mediocre third party support.  Meanwhile, the past decade has not been an easy time economically - DS and PSP faced that starting in 2008, but they also had a couple of years worry-free on the market first.

As for Vita, I'd be happy to hear someone more informed explain what went right or wrong for that system.  If Switch's success is predicated on "powerful handheld", then why didn't Vita do better?

You may well be right.  I think we all just reflexively point to mobile as the killer or handhelds.  We could be wrong, at least to some extent. 

I think its a certainty that mobile gaming has had a negative impact on handheld sales.  But, I don't guess it is possible to know exactly how much impact.  It is certainly possible that a stronger 3DS launch would have resulted in much higher LT sales.  And, yeah, I have no idea about Vita.  

As to your other point about mobile's impact on home consoles......  That's a great point, and something that will be interesting to see over the next decade or two. The thing is though, there does not seem to be any end in sight to the power gap between portable and stationary hardware.  So, as long as there are gamers that care about "power", there will be demand for home consoles and/or PCs for gaming.   It will be interesting to see if the percentage of people that value portability over power shifts significantly though.  

For the record, I don't see any of the possible shifts as necessarily bad for gaming.  Changes happen, and the world still turns.  



The_Liquid_Laser said: 

Next year the Zelda effect will be gone, and Switch sales will slow down somewhat until Pokemon comes out.

I'll ignore you ignoring my post as I'm sure we all know why you did that, so now I'm only curious why you think the "Zelda effect" will disappear next year specifically. What's stopped it from disappearing sooner? What's suddenly gonna stop it next year, especially when it's selling like an evergreen title? Since it's supposedly the only killer app on Switch thus the highest selling game, you have to also be saying that proven evergreen series like 3D Mario, Splatoon, and Mario Kart are also gonna suddenly stop selling. Otherwise, they'd well overtake Zelda and cleary prove it's not the only killer app, heck not even the biggest one (though MK8D is gonna do that regardless).