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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Switch and Nintendo hardware

fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

The overall goal is to make money, having a large audience is how companies obtain maximum profit.

They dont create alot of money to obtain maximum audience.

What flashfire is saying is correct.

The overall goal is to get customers as well ... 

No point in trying to make profit if you don't have any customers at your side ... 

You're not making sense and i think you are doing it on purpose.

Customers are just a means to an end.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:

You're not making sense and i think you are doing it on purpose.

Customers are just a means to an end.

As are profits ... 



fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

You're not making sense and i think you are doing it on purpose.

Customers are just a means to an end.

As are profits ... 

No, profits arent the means to an end, they are the end.

The ultimate goal of any company is to make money, not make customers.

Maximizing the number of customers leads to potentially higher profits.

Hence how customers are the means while profit is the end.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

70 million does seem more and more plausible imo



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Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

zorg1000 said:

No, profits arent the means to an end, they are the end.

The ultimate goal of any company is to make money, not make customers.

Maximizing the number of customers leads to potentially higher profits.

Hence how customers are the means while profit is the end.

To get profit you need customers ... 

Both are equally as important ... 



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fatslob-:O said:
zorg1000 said:

No, profits arent the means to an end, they are the end.

The ultimate goal of any company is to make money, not make customers.

Maximizing the number of customers leads to potentially higher profits.

Hence how customers are the means while profit is the end.

To get profit you need customers ... 

Both are equally as important ... 

Exactly, to get profit you need customers which means that customers are the means to an end to obtaining maximum profit.

A large audience leads to large profit (potentially) but the same cannot be said if you reserve it, large profit doesnt lead to large audience.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Lonely_Dolphin said:
The_Liquid_Laser said: 

I was not surprised by Switch selling out.  I am more surprised that other people didn't see it.  Here is where I attribute the Switch's success.  

This year Switch has been mostly selling to two types of gamers:
1) People dying to play Zelda.
2) People who really want a powerful handheld console.

A really good game like Breath of the Wild might increase console sales by (optimistically) 10m, but that train runs out eventually.  The Zelda effect will be gone in 2018 and beyond.  The second group of people are going to keep buying Switch.  Eventually because of customer base and the number of games coming to Switch there are going to be three more groups showing up:

3) Handheld gamers who can't go next gen until the Switch drops in price.  (This could include a cheaper handheld only version.)

4) People who just get the most popular console at the time.  These people do not frequent gaming forums or anything.  They just look what console has a lot of games and what system their friends have.  These people have no console loyalty and can easily switch brands from one generation to the next.  The Switch is going to get a whole lot of these people.

5) There are a lot Wii gamers who bought nothing in Gen 8.  Switch will get some of these people.  It won't get the ones who only showed up for Wii Sports.  On the other hand Mario Kart Wii sold 37m, while Mario Kart 8 only sold 8m on the Wii U.  So there are a lot of people who will show back up for Switch and mostly want local multiplayer games like this.

So expect Switch sales to slow down in 2018, but then really pick up in 2019 and beyond.  Things like the next Pokemon game or a cheaper, simpler hardware version to really spike sales.  In the end Switch is going to sell incredibly well, but I expect a lot of gloom and doom predictions for Nintendo next year because the Zelda effect will have worn off.

 

I think you are either massively overestimating how much impact BotW alone has, or severely underestimating the effect of the Switch's library as a whole. I fully believe BotW by itself would have done no better than what NSMBU did for the Wii U. It's the combination of Zelda/Mario Kart/Splatoon/etc. within close proximity with more games always on the pipeline, aswell it's great hardware concept and great marketing causing it's sell out status I'd say. I also have no doubt Switch will sell more in 2018 than 2017. Zelda and Co. wont suddenly lose relevance next year, especially Odyssey n Xenoblade as they released late, and the continual stream of games will surely continue with the big highlight being Animal Crossing. Plus stock will be better, especially if that 25-30 million shipment number is true.

I agree that the hardware concept and marketing are helping the Switch become more successful than the Wii U.  However let's talk about the games.  Mario Kart, Splatoon, and 3D Mario were all present on the Wii U.  These games did not cause people to buy Wii U's.  If you are going to argue for the Switch's success, then you can't use an argument that would also apply to the Wii U.

On the other hand Breath of the Wild actually did cause people to buy Wii U's.  Most people would prefer to just buy a Switch, but because of short supply quite a few bought a Wii U instead just for Zelda.  
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/782811/Zelda-Breath-of-the-Wild-Wii-U-Nintendo-Switch-stock

This Zelda game is actually a killer app.  None of the other games that have been released so far are killer apps for the Switch.  I know this, because they were not killer apps for the Wii U.



Current Switch sales figures show the concept is great of a hybrid console but technically with it's 20nm fabrication process and slightly bulky size for a portable it can be much improved on. I can only see a revised Switch doing much better especially if at a better price and a large established software library.

Apart from shrinking the console to make it more portable or/and much better battery runtime there are other options as well for example a Switch that offers current docked performance in portable mode with a 1080p screen. This could also be the model that introduces a VR visor that the console slips into.

Unlike ps4 and xbox the Switch performance level is not so negative when each revision of the Switch adds improved portability for example.

I expect to see a minor revision or even major revision early next year. The minor may be the same Switch case as original and improved fabrication process for the chipset and longer battery runtime or they may go for a more major revision. The built in storage may be upgraded, 64GB seems likely at some point. Already 32GB has become quite a major issue and possibly the biggest issue for the console so far. I'd be quite happy with a double microSD slot to be honest as an alternative to give more flexibility with storage as well as usb hard drive support when docked.

It's always hard to predict sales but I personally think the later versions of Switch will be a better product for most people and you would expect that to have higher sales. Ultimately it's Nintendo's own games which I feel are the real driving force though.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

 

I think you are either massively overestimating how much impact BotW alone has, or severely underestimating the effect of the Switch's library as a whole. I fully believe BotW by itself would have done no better than what NSMBU did for the Wii U. It's the combination of Zelda/Mario Kart/Splatoon/etc. within close proximity with more games always on the pipeline, aswell it's great hardware concept and great marketing causing it's sell out status I'd say. I also have no doubt Switch will sell more in 2018 than 2017. Zelda and Co. wont suddenly lose relevance next year, especially Odyssey n Xenoblade as they released late, and the continual stream of games will surely continue with the big highlight being Animal Crossing. Plus stock will be better, especially if that 25-30 million shipment number is true.

I agree that the hardware concept and marketing are helping the Switch become more successful than the Wii U.  However let's talk about the games.  Mario Kart, Splatoon, and 3D Mario were all present on the Wii U.  These games did not cause people to buy Wii U's.  If you are going to argue for the Switch's success, then you can't use an argument that would also apply to the Wii U.

On the other hand Breath of the Wild actually did cause people to buy Wii U's.  Most people would prefer to just buy a Switch, but because of short supply quite a few bought a Wii U instead just for Zelda.  
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/782811/Zelda-Breath-of-the-Wild-Wii-U-Nintendo-Switch-stock

This Zelda game is actually a killer app.  None of the other games that have been released so far are killer apps for the Switch.  I know this, because they were not killer apps for the Wii U.

Software pacing is very important. Here is when those franchises released on Wii U

 

3D Mario-Nov 2013

Mario Kart-May 2014

Splatoon-May 2015

Zelda-Mar 2017

 

VS Switch

 

Zelda-Mar 2017

Mario Kart-Apr 2017

Splatoon-July 2017

3D Mario-Oct 2017

 

Those games released like a year apart on Wii U while all 4 released within 8 months of each other on Switch.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

I agree that the hardware concept and marketing are helping the Switch become more successful than the Wii U.  However let's talk about the games.  Mario Kart, Splatoon, and 3D Mario were all present on the Wii U.  These games did not cause people to buy Wii U's.  If you are going to argue for the Switch's success, then you can't use an argument that would also apply to the Wii U.

On the other hand Breath of the Wild actually did cause people to buy Wii U's.  Most people would prefer to just buy a Switch, but because of short supply quite a few bought a Wii U instead just for Zelda.  
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/782811/Zelda-Breath-of-the-Wild-Wii-U-Nintendo-Switch-stock

This Zelda game is actually a killer app.  None of the other games that have been released so far are killer apps for the Switch.  I know this, because they were not killer apps for the Wii U.

Software pacing is very important. Here is when those franchises released on Wii U

 

3D Mario-Nov 2013

Mario Kart-May 2014

Splatoon-May 2015

Zelda-Mar 2017

 

VS Switch

 

Zelda-Mar 2017

Mario Kart-Apr 2017

Splatoon-July 2017

3D Mario-Oct 2017

 

Those games released like a year apart on Wii U while all 4 released within 8 months of each other on Switch.

Yeah, i agree that is an important point.

It is good for Nintendo that 3DS third parties are now pledging to bring games to the Switch. The january direct will be very important in marking the pace for next year aswell.

I don't know what else they have on the bag though. I'm not sure Metroid prime 4 will be ready for next year, so third parties will play a pivotal role. Theres Fire emblem aswell, i guess, and i can see Pikmin 4 coming out next year.