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Texas church shooting leaves many dead (atleast 27).

Forums - Politics Discussion - Texas church shooting leaves many dead (atleast 27).

WagnerPaiva said:

You got to be kidding me.

They aren't. I know this because I used to think the same way as the left. I also have friends who think like this as well. I was basically taught to believe everything I was told by adults or authority figures, within reason, which meant whatever the TV said, was the truth. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started to wake up and be able to read between the lines. These friends of mine, either clearly understand the truth when it's laid out in front of them, and just deny it for many reasons, or they truly believe it no matter what, like I used to. It's frustrating, but I understand because I know exactly what it's like. It took a fairly major event in my life to snap me out of it.

How much of what you've said is complete truth and how much is misdirection is hard to tell, but there is definitely some truth to it. The evidence is there for those who take the time to look and think it through. Just wait until Mueller finishes his investigation. What people think he's going to find, and what he really finds, are going to be two very different things. The reason the dems are coming clean now, is because they know the jig is up, and the people who were part of the problem, are being weeded out so the dems can keep themselves as separate as possible from the backlash that's going to occur.

If you think Trump is a big mouth now, just wait until he's proven mostly right. The left is either going to riot like never seen before, or they are going to end up depressed, like I was, when the truth just became way to evident. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but it's necessary to move on.



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

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monocle_layton said:
sundin13 said:

Mental illness is often used as a scapegoat whenever something like this happens, but in actuality, it is a pretty poor predictor of violence. Removing the rights of thousands of people who pose a minimal risk does virtually nothing to increase our safety. (I should clarify, some individuals are clearly unfit to possess firearms, but there is little need to broadly expand the definition of "mentally ill")

If you wish to increase safety, instead of going after the mentally ill, reduce access to guns of individuals with violent misdemeanors or a history of drug or alcohol abuse or temporary restraining orders.

https://jhupress.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1421411113_updf.pdf
https://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/resources/digtal_update_Webster_Vernick.pdf

Ignoring homicides, gun suicides are a problem too. Besides investing in programs for suicide prevention, shouldn't we reject anyone buying a gun who is medically diagnosed with depression? I know Australia managed to decrease gun suicides by implementing certain restrictions, and I honestly think it's worth tackling.

Suicide is certainly much more of a concern when it comes to mental illness than homicide. However, as is, depression isn't a condition which disqualifies someone from owning a gun. Should it be? I personally don't think so. While access to guns should be limited to anyone involuntarily committed or deemed a suicide risk, barring gun ownership to everybody with depression may do more harm than good. By including depression in a list of conditions which prevents gun ownership, you drive people away from seeking treatment and further stigmatize mental illness which also drives people away from treatment. 

Arguably, access and quality of care are two of the most important things for individuals facing depression, so working towards getting these people the help they need I believe would be more impactful than stripping them of their guns (although again, if they are getting help, removing access to guns should be very high on the priority list of the medical professionals treating them and if they are ever deemed a suicide risk, they should likely lose access to their weapons). 

That said, I am not aware of too much research on the efficacy of the programs you seem to be suggesting so what I am saying is largely based on what I believe is most important for those suffering from depression. If you have any relevant research, I would love to read it.

Aeolus451 said:
monocle_layton said:

What if we implemented universal background checks and updated our gun laws to prevent discrimination? I feel that would check off your (justified) causes for concern

There's already universial background checks and the gun laws are constantly being changed because niether side agrees on a fundenmentallevel about gun ownership. 

Private sales of firearms do not require a background check in most states, which largely undermines the idea of "universal background checks". 

Last edited by sundin13 - on 06 November 2017

Per usual, one must ask what new law would have prevented this. The guy shouldn't have been able to purchase the guns, as he had a felony-equivalent court-marshall involving domestic violence, but the military failed to put him in the database which allowed him to pass the background checks. 

Additionally good civilians with guns might or might not have (depending on the specifics -- they are currently vague) prevented even greater loss of life when they pursued this guy. 

If anything, this incident shows us the limits of gun-control legislation when it comes to preventing mass shootings. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 06 November 2017

Torillian said:
OhNoYouDont said:

Would be nice to know how many of these were considered gang related. I suspect it makes this metric far less incendiary

Would that really matter? If I'm on the pro gun control side I don't think it matters to me whether a mass shooting was gang related or not, just that it occurred and would be less likely with proper gun control. 

Oh it definitely matters. If a substantial percentage of these are gang related then I don't have anything to fear as someone who isn't in a gang. Plus, why do I care if a bunch of animals want to have a localized war with each other?

If, on the other hand, most of these are like Vegas then I should be scared shitless of attending any events with more than 100 people.

This is basic risk assessment. I didn't even make any commentary about gun control.



EricHiggin said:
WagnerPaiva said:

You got to be kidding me.

They aren't. I know this because I used to think the same way as the left. I also have friends who think like this as well. I was basically taught to believe everything I was told by adults or authority figures, within reason, which meant whatever the TV said, was the truth. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started to wake up and be able to read between the lines. These friends of mine, either clearly understand the truth when it's laid out in front of them, and just deny it for many reasons, or they truly believe it no matter what, like I used to. It's frustrating, but I understand because I know exactly what it's like. It took a fairly major event in my life to snap me out of it.

How much of what you've said is complete truth and how much is misdirection is hard to tell, but there is definitely some truth to it. The evidence is there for those who take the time to look and think it through. Just wait until Mueller finishes his investigation. What people think he's going to find, and what he really finds, are going to be two very different things. The reason the dems are coming clean now, is because they know the jig is up, and the people who were part of the problem, are being weeded out so the dems can keep themselves as separate as possible from the backlash that's going to occur.

If you think Trump is a big mouth now, just wait until he's proven mostly right. The left is either going to riot like never seen before, or they are going to end up depressed, like I was, when the truth just became way to evident. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but it's necessary to move on.

You are totally right. And it feels to me the Left went all or nothing on their hate campaign, specially when I consider Stephen Colbert Late Night Show, a far cry from the brilliant days of David Letterman. It is almost pathetic what him and Jimmy Kimmel are doing.

In a 100% material world, those guys would have won already. I mean, they have all the money, all the entertainment industry, everything.

If their plans keep falling apart, as it is happening clearly with all these events I have mentioned, it seems to me it is because that is a different war being fought in a different realm, spiritual, if you will. That is, of course, my perception of it.

Atheist or believer, I welcome everyone that stands against the Globalist Agenda. Even itf it is only by seeying the Left for what they really are.

So, for that, I salute you.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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sundin13 said:
monocle_layton said:

Ignoring homicides, gun suicides are a problem too. Besides investing in programs for suicide prevention, shouldn't we reject anyone buying a gun who is medically diagnosed with depression? I know Australia managed to decrease gun suicides by implementing certain restrictions, and I honestly think it's worth tackling.

Suicide is certainly much more of a concern when it comes to mental illness than homicide. However, as is, depression isn't a condition which disqualifies someone from owning a gun. Should it be? I personally don't think so. While access to guns should be limited to anyone involuntarily committed or deemed a suicide risk, barring gun ownership to everybody with depression may do more harm than good. By including depression in a list of conditions which prevents gun ownership, you drive people away from seeking treatment and further stigmatize mental illness which also drives people away from treatment. 

Arguably, access and quality of care are two of the most important things for individuals facing depression, so working towards getting these people the help they need I believe would be more impactful than stripping them of their guns (although again, if they are getting help, removing access to guns should be very high on the priority list of the medical professionals treating them and if they are ever deemed a suicide risk, they should likely lose access to their weapons). 

That said, I am not aware of too much research on the efficacy of the programs you seem to be suggesting so what I am saying is largely based on what I believe is most important for those suffering from depression. If you have any relevant research, I would love to read it.

Aeolus451 said:

There's already universial background checks and the gun laws are constantly being changed because niether side agrees on a fundenmentallevel about gun ownership. 

Private sales of firearms do not require a background check in most states, which largely undermines the idea of "universal background checks". 

Objectives. Using previous research, we examined the impact of 4 handgun laws (waiting periods, universal background checks, gun locks, and open carrying regulations) on suicide rates.

Methods. We used publicly available databases to collect information on statewide laws, suicide rates, and demographic characteristics for 2013.

Results. Each law was associated with significantly lower firearm suicide rates and the proportion of suicides resulting from firearms. In addition, each law, except for that which required a waiting period, was associated with a lower overall suicide rate. Follow-up analyses showed a significant indirect effect on overall suicide rates through the proportion of suicides by firearms, indicating that the reduced overall suicide rate was attributable to fewer suicide attempts, fewer handguns in the home, suicide attempts using less lethal means, or a combination of these factors. States that implemented any of these laws saw a decreased suicide rate in subsequent years, whereas the only state that repealed 1 of these laws saw an increased suicide rate.

Conclusions. Our results were supportive of a potentially vital role in suicide prevention for state legislation that limits access and exposure to handguns.

 

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2015.302753

 

For anyone else curious, studies do seem to point towards gun deaths decreasing with restrictions



WagnerPaiva said:

You are totally right. And it feels to me the Left went all or nothing on their hate campaign, specially when I consider Stephen Colbert Late Night Show, a far cry from the brilliant days of David Letterman. It is almost pathetic what him and Jimmy Kimmel are doing.

In a 100% material world, those guys would have won already. I mean, they have all the money, all the entertainment industry, everything.

If their plans keep falling apart, as it is happening clearly with all these events I have mentioned, it seems to me it is because that is a different war being fought in a different realm, spiritual, if you will. That is, of course, my perception of it.

Atheist or believer, I welcome everyone that stands against the Globalist Agenda. Even itf it is only by seeying the Left for what they really are.

So, for that, I salute you.

There is a fantastic video of Kimmel on Letterman, talking about how the late night host gig was a lot different than he really thought, and how much BS and lying there is. They both have a laugh, but Kimmel doesn't laugh as much, then seriously repeats himself. While they were 'joking', they weren't really joking.

Not all of the left are so clueless or crazy, some are really good intelligent people, but the more extreme left are the one's who get the air time to try and "spread the good word". Most of the extreme left, are the one's who are paid really well for what they do, and know that if they don't continue down that extreme left path, they will be tossed aside like the center left, and the right. The media does a very good job of making it clear how poor the right is and how hard they have to work for that little bit of the pie, so most lefties won't risk losing their job knowing where they may end up otherwise. Who really wants to do their fair share when you can make other people do most of the hard work? Some of my friends are like this, and it makes them harder to like now.

The biggest problems the big shots on the left didn't account for, were Trump, and the fact that enough of the right are in such a bad spot, that their attitude literally has gotten to the point that they just don't care. Michael Moore said it best, that the center left, and right, feels so left out, so forgotten, and are so screwed, that they were more than willing to vote for Trump, even if he destroyed American politics completely and brought the entire system down. In a situation like that, money no longer matters, because the right has most of the food, and most of the guns, so no wonder why they voted like they did. The Hunger Games movies are an extreme example of this.

I wouldn't say the left went all out, but they pushed really hard, broke some rules, and are finally realizing it's too late and it's time to give up or regroup. The republicans are going to win in 2020, no matter who runs, the extreme left has assured that. The next shot the left has is 2024, so they have a long time to think about what they want to do, but by then, things in America will have become more conservative again, so the democrats will have to rethink their politics in a big way. I for one, really hope they can end up much closer to center, where they really need to be, because that's where the best of them reside. Too much right for too long, isn't necessarily a good thing either.

As for the 'conspiracy' stuff, some of it could very well be legit based on the evidence, but some of it could also be blowing things out of proportion. That doesn't change the fact that while politics has always been about power, business now plays too much of a role and can easily manipulate the people using their money, and use the influence of the famous people they pay to do their bidding on the side. House of Cards may be an extreme example, but it gives you a good idea how politics has fundamentally changed, and it hasn't been about helping the people for quite some time now, but spoon feeding as many as possible instead, using as little money as possible to do so.

The far left, as well as the far right, being portrayed as they are by the media in an extreme way, is part of the underlying reason for some of these violent attacks. Pushing easily convincable, or flat out crazy people, over the edge, hurting innocent people. It's probably not the only factor, but one that could be fixed quite easily, if there wasn't such a battle for money and power, especially when it's supposed to be about "we the people".



The Canadian National Anthem According To Justin Trudeau

 

Oh planet Earth! The home of native lands, 
True social law, in all of us demand.
With cattle farts, we view sea rise,
Our North sinking slowly.
From far and snide, oh planet Earth, 
Our healthcare is yours free!
Science save our land, harnessing the breeze,
Oh planet Earth, smoke weed and ferment yeast.
Oh planet Earth, ell gee bee queue and tee.

SpokenTruth said:
VGPolyglot said:

It doesn't say anything about Antifa or BLM.

Didn't you know the Open Society Foundation is the ultra secret HQ of BLM, AntiFa, Hollywood, CERN, The DNC, Monsanto, Google, etc...? Colin Kaepernick if their new president.

With half these wild ass conspiracy posts I see in these threads, I wonder why the world hasn't burnt to a crisp yet. Scary shit.



EricHiggin said:
WagnerPaiva said:

You are totally right. And it feels to me the Left went all or nothing on their hate campaign, specially when I consider Stephen Colbert Late Night Show, a far cry from the brilliant days of David Letterman. It is almost pathetic what him and Jimmy Kimmel are doing.

In a 100% material world, those guys would have won already. I mean, they have all the money, all the entertainment industry, everything.

If their plans keep falling apart, as it is happening clearly with all these events I have mentioned, it seems to me it is because that is a different war being fought in a different realm, spiritual, if you will. That is, of course, my perception of it.

Atheist or believer, I welcome everyone that stands against the Globalist Agenda. Even itf it is only by seeying the Left for what they really are.

So, for that, I salute you.

There is a fantastic video of Kimmel on Letterman, talking about how the late night host gig was a lot different than he really thought, and how much BS and lying there is. They both have a laugh, but Kimmel doesn't laugh as much, then seriously repeats himself. While they were 'joking', they weren't really joking.

Not all of the left are so clueless or crazy, some are really good intelligent people, but the more extreme left are the one's who get the air time to try and "spread the good word". Most of the extreme left, are the one's who are paid really well for what they do, and know that if they don't continue down that extreme left path, they will be tossed aside like the center left, and the right. The media does a very good job of making it clear how poor the right is and how hard they have to work for that little bit of the pie, so most lefties won't risk losing their job knowing where they may end up otherwise. Who really wants to do their fair share when you can make other people do most of the hard work? Some of my friends are like this, and it makes them harder to like now.

The biggest problems the big shots on the left didn't account for, were Trump, and the fact that enough of the right are in such a bad spot, that their attitude literally has gotten to the point that they just don't care. Michael Moore said it best, that the center left, and right, feels so left out, so forgotten, and are so screwed, that they were more than willing to vote for Trump, even if he destroyed American politics completely and brought the entire system down. In a situation like that, money no longer matters, because the right has most of the food, and most of the guns, so no wonder why they voted like they did. The Hunger Games movies are an extreme example of this.

I wouldn't say the left went all out, but they pushed really hard, broke some rules, and are finally realizing it's too late and it's time to give up or regroup. The republicans are going to win in 2020, no matter who runs, the extreme left has assured that. The next shot the left has is 2024, so they have a long time to think about what they want to do, but by then, things in America will have become more conservative again, so the democrats will have to rethink their politics in a big way. I for one, really hope they can end up much closer to center, where they really need to be, because that's where the best of them reside. Too much right for too long, isn't necessarily a good thing either.

As for the 'conspiracy' stuff, some of it could very well be legit based on the evidence, but some of it could also be blowing things out of proportion. That doesn't change the fact that while politics has always been about power, business now plays too much of a role and can easily manipulate the people using their money, and use the influence of the famous people they pay to do their bidding on the side. House of Cards may be an extreme example, but it gives you a good idea how politics has fundamentally changed, and it hasn't been about helping the people for quite some time now, but spoon feeding as many as possible instead, using as little money as possible to do so.

The far left, as well as the far right, being portrayed as they are by the media in an extreme way, is part of the underlying reason for some of these violent attacks. Pushing easily convincable, or flat out crazy people, over the edge, hurting innocent people. It's probably not the only factor, but one that could be fixed quite easily, if there wasn't such a battle for money and power, especially when it's supposed to be about "we the people".

you guys need to be on some serious medication. please seek help o.0



Mass shootings will never ever stop in America.

If the shooting of 20 little children wasn't enough, then nothing is.

The gun lobby and culture is too strong.

Accept the fact that these shootings are your reality. It's carousel.