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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Russian Empire vs. the Soviet Union - a geographic/territorial comparison

Farsala said:
VGPolyglot said:

Which territories did they not control?

Alaska for example, I don't think they could tax any of the residents there like the other european countries did with their claims.  Of course USA took advantage of that by purchasing it, thus making an official record of ownership, but it really wasn't anyones territory at the time imo other then the people living there.

Well, the UK and the US had both signed treaties beforehand though, recognizing Russian claims:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Treaty%20of%20St.%20Petersburg%20(1825)&item_type=topic

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/history/bl-rusus1825.htm

 

Now, I guess Russia didn't have complete control over the territory, but it was recognized by the relevant parties.



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, the UK and the US had both signed treaties beforehand though, recognizing Russian claims:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Treaty%20of%20St.%20Petersburg%20(1825)&item_type=topic

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/history/bl-rusus1825.htm

 

Now, I guess Russia didn't have complete control over the territory, but it was recognized by the relevant parties.

Isn't that the issue Farsala brought up though? If it wasn't recognised by the people actually living there... how was it recognised by the relevant parties?

Well, I guess that could lead to numerous questions. De facto, did they control it? I believe that had at least some influence they could exert, but they did not have the infrastructure to do much more than that.

Last edited by VGPolyglot - on 03 November 2017

VGPolyglot said:
Farsala said:

Alaska for example, I don't think they could tax any of the residents there like the other european countries did with their claims.  Of course USA took advantage of that by purchasing it, thus making an official record of ownership, but it really wasn't anyones territory at the time imo other then the people living there.

Well, the UK and the US had both signed treaties beforehand though, recognizing Russian claims:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Treaty%20of%20St.%20Petersburg%20(1825)&item_type=topic

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/history/bl-rusus1825.htm

 

Now, I guess Russia didn't have complete control over the territory, but it was recognized by the relevant parties.

Yep, but what I am saying it was only recognized due to them being European. Being world powers though the US and UK could do whatever they want with any unclaimed non european territory at the time. And with so few people living there, no surprise they could lay claims to it so easily.

It is hard to explain but it is the official territory in the eyes of the world powers, but none of them really had 'control' imo. Like modern inuits are fairly separate from canadians until the Canadian intervention after WW2 even though they both live in Canada.



Sadly there's no freedom on this site to have a serious historical discussion.

If I as a Finn express that I wish our German allies with the Führer in charge would have won WW2 to fend off the attacking Soviets, I'll get moderated.



Miguel_Zorro said:
Slimebeast said:
Sadly there's no freedom on this site to have a serious historical discussion.

If I as a Finn express that I wish our German allies with the Führer in charge would have won WW2 to fend off the attacking Soviets, I'll get moderated.

You just said it, didn't you?

You got moderated before for saying you wished "The Fuhrer" won because of minorities. I know you understand how that's different from the post above. 

I just said it because I have to test the limits since it's hard to determine beforehand what is and what isn't allowed to say here.

And you aren't entire correct in how you interpreted my previous statement about the Führer winning WW2 in regards to the current situation in Austria. It was about the native Germanics in Austria who will end up in minority in just a couple of decades, and yet we're observing this bizarre sitation where these same natives are still whipping themselves on the back out of self-guilt, describing themselves as xenophobes.



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RolStoppable said:
Slimebeast said:
Sadly there's no freedom on this site to have a serious historical discussion.

If I as a Finn express that I wish our German allies with the Führer in charge would have won WW2 to fend off the attacking Soviets, I'll get moderated.

Finland and Germany were allies?

Yep. But more or less informally. And it was a lose alliance which Finland felt had to be abandon in fear of Allied victory in 1944.



Slimebeast said:
Miguel_Zorro said:

You just said it, didn't you?

You got moderated before for saying you wished "The Fuhrer" won because of minorities. I know you understand how that's different from the post above. 

I just said it because I have to test the limits since it's hard to determine beforehand what is and what isn't allowed to say here.

And you aren't entire correct in how you interpreted my previous statement about the Führer winning WW2 in regards to the current situation in Austria. It was about the native Germanics in Austria who will end up in minority in just a couple of decades, and yet we're observing this bizarre sitation where these same natives are still whipping themselves on the back out of self-guilt, describing themselves as xenophobes.

I highly doubt that. Even if they don't constitute a majority, they'd still be a plurality, not a minority. Even if that was true, why would it matter? Most of them would have assimilated into Austrian culture by then.



VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:

I just said it because I have to test the limits since it's hard to determine beforehand what is and what isn't allowed to say here.

And you aren't entire correct in how you interpreted my previous statement about the Führer winning WW2 in regards to the current situation in Austria. It was about the native Germanics in Austria who will end up in minority in just a couple of decades, and yet we're observing this bizarre sitation where these same natives are still whipping themselves on the back out of self-guilt, describing themselves as xenophobes.

I highly doubt that. Even if they don't constitute a majority, they'd still be a plurality, not a minority. Even if that was true, why would it matter? Most of them would have assimilated into Austrian culture by then.

Why would it matter? Because the nature of your country has become radically changed.

Assimilation only works to some extent. The incoming migrants will also change the nature of the country.

Just like most Western Europeans do not wish to live in countries like Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia or even Greece (I love the Greek people, but they're very corrupt according to their own words) because the cultural differences are so disadvantageus to us. Similarly we also do not wish to live in a country where our people and customs are in a minority struggling against a majority of third world culture and customs.

I live in a so called multicultural country and I hate it. And we ethnic Swedes aren't even a minority in Sweden just yet, but going there at a rapid pace.



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

I highly doubt that. Even if they don't constitute a majority, they'd still be a plurality, not a minority. Even if that was true, why would it matter? Most of them would have assimilated into Austrian culture by then.

Why would it matter? Because the nature of your country has become radically changed.

Assimilation only works to some extent. The incoming migrants will also change the nature of the country.

Just like most Western Europeans do not wish to live in countries like Turkey, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia or even Greece (I love the Greek people, but they're very corrupt according to their own words) because the cultural differences are so disadvantageus to us. Similarly we also do not wish to live in a country where our people and customs are in a minority struggling against a majority of third world culture and customs.

I live in a so called multicultural country and I hate it. And we ethnic Swedes aren't even a minority in Sweden just yet, but going there at a rapid pace.

Countries radically change frequently. Railroad system, telephone, radio, television, internet, those all caused radical changes in various countries.



Slimebeast said:
Sadly there's no freedom on this site to have a serious historical discussion.

If I as a Finn express that I wish our German allies with the Führer in charge would have won WW2 to fend off the attacking Soviets, I'll get moderated.

Rightfully so if you advocate nazism, the fins did fend off the Soviets so what is really your point?