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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Russian Empire vs. the Soviet Union - a geographic/territorial comparison

Now, some of the largest contiguous empires in world history were the Russian Empire, and the Soviet Union (well, they claimed to be anti-imperialist, but I am going to call them as such for the sake of this thread). I like reading about Russian history, and since I don't participate in any other forum, I thought it'd be interesting to discuss it here!!

The Russian Empire was proclaimed in 1721, and lasted, in one form or another, until 1917 with the February Revolution. The territory of Russia expanded greatly in a span of 2 centuries, incorporating territory from the Central Asian Khanates, China, Sweden, the Ottoman Empire and Persia, amongst others. At one point it even spanned three continents, from Eastern Europe to North America!! However, it is important to note that there was never a period in time where all of the territory of the Russian Empire was together at once: after the sale of Alaska 1867, they continued to make territorial gains in Central Asia and the South Caucasus.

 

However, that was not all. The turbulent times of the latter-day Russian Empire meant that certain territories were lost, for example South Sakhalin was given to Japan, in which it became known as the Karafuto Prefecture. The collapse of the Russian empire also resulted in enormous territorial losses: Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania became indpendent, entirely from Russian territory. Poland also became independent, and much of its land came from the former Russian Empire. The newly-independent Turkey also gained territory with the Treaty of Kars, and Romania gained Bessarabia.

 

On the other hand, with World War II also came territorial gains for the Soviet Union. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were completely re-incorporated into the Soviet Union. Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Germany and Finland all made territorial concessions in Eastern Europe too. In terms of Asia, the Soviet Union also took the once-disputed Kuril islands, along with South Sakhalin. Tuva, which become a nominally independent country after the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in China, was also incorporated into the Soviet Union during the Second World War.

 

So, it's interesting to see which areas were part of one, but not the other. I think if I create a list, it would end up like this:

Russian Empire exclusive:

 

  1. Russian America (Alaska)
  2. South Caucasus territory now part of Turky after Treaty of Kars
  3. Most of Finland
  4. Polish territory that was not re-annexed by the Soviet Union
Soviet Union exclusive:
  1. Kuril Islands (I'm not sure if the Russian Empire ever had complete control over the islands)
  2. Tuva
  3. Kaliningrad Oblast (former German territory)
  4. Areas taken from Poland, Romania and Czechoslovakia that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
So guys, what are your thoughts? I hope that what I said was accurate!! If I made any mistakes, please notify me of them.

 

Last edited by VGPolyglot - on 03 November 2017

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Yeah. Those are maps.



I feel like this is something I would read in history class xD



NobleTeam360 said:
I feel like this is something I would read in history class xD

I like reading about history myself



Ka-pi96 said:
Nice thread VGP! Russian history is pretty cool.

Yeah, though if I do make another thread like this, I guess I should provide an argument. However, when/if I do so, I'm not sure!



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Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yeah, though if I do make another thread like this, I guess I should provide an argument. However, when/if I do so, I'm not sure!

Yeah, there's not a whole lot to discuss/argue here

But still, interesting to see how Russia/USSR expanded and contracted over time. Out of interest, how much did they get for the sale of Alaska?

$7,200,000 (or I think around $113,000,000 in today's money)

Last edited by VGPolyglot - on 03 November 2017

Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

$7,200,000 (or I think around $200,000,000 in today's money)

I've no idea how you can read that!

But isn't Alaska like super oil rich now? Seems like they screwed up by selling it so cheap! Plus let's not forget that Polar Bears live in Alaska too, so even more reason they should have kept it!

And I actually had the numbers wrong, it's more like 113! The main reason they sold it for so cheap was because they were worried about the British Empire taking the land for no compensation at all I believe, so they sold it to the US so they could at least get something out of it.



Always love history.

I will add an argument, some of these territories they didn't control at all. They had official claims, but I don't think they could enforce any laws or rules for many of these places. And so just because they were considered european, all the world powers decided to agree to their claims and thus when they had to give up some of these territories, most of it were to greater powers then they were.



Farsala said:
Always love history.

I will add an argument, some of these territories they didn't control at all. They had official claims, but I don't think they could enforce any laws or rules for many of these places. And so just because they were considered european, all the world powers decided to agree to their claims and thus when they had to give up some of these territories, most of it were to greater powers then they were.

Which territories did they not control?



VGPolyglot said:
Farsala said:
Always love history.

I will add an argument, some of these territories they didn't control at all. They had official claims, but I don't think they could enforce any laws or rules for many of these places. And so just because they were considered european, all the world powers decided to agree to their claims and thus when they had to give up some of these territories, most of it were to greater powers then they were.

Which territories did they not control?

Alaska for example, I don't think they could tax any of the residents there like the other european countries did with their claims.  Of course USA took advantage of that by purchasing it, thus making an official record of ownership, but it really wasn't anyones territory at the time imo other then the people living there.