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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's tax proposal: raise taxes on the poor, give to the rich

Signalstar on 20 October 2017
Superman4 said:
Signalstar said:
If he gets rid of the estate tax that is the ultimate tax cut on the rich. We should fight against that as hard as possible.

Why exactly would anyone be for this ridiculous tax? Do you understand what it is? Lets say you worked for 50 years building a company like the HIlton, when you die you want your kids to inherit what you worked those 50 years for lets say its 100 million. That 100 million has already been taxed as income and is your money free and clear. When you die and will it to your kid, you would expect your kid to get all 100 million right? Why would the goverment be entitled to half of that money because you died? Better yet, why would your son now get taxed on that money as income? Wouldnt that be double taxing money already taxed? This law doesnt affect me since Im not rich and none of my family is but it is a BS law that is designed as a money grab for the goverment. Whatever you earn in your lifetime should be able to get passed down to your children 100%, the goverment is not entitled to any of it.

The rich do not spend their money for the most part. They hoard and save it which helped them get rich in the first place. Consumer spending is by far the largest sector of the US economy. Because of the estate tax some of that money goes to benefit society. It also encourages rich heirs to be innovative and entrepreneurial instead of being lazy and sitting on their money. As it stands, Japan's estate tax means that a sizable fortune would be wiped out in 3 generations unless the heirs invested that money and tried to make it grow. Also if anyone wants the government to receive a smaller amount they can give the money away to charity or invest it in something that will likely create jobs and keep that money flowing through the economy. As it stands the tax only applies to wealth over $5 million for individuals and $11 million for couples. That is an extremely high threshold and only benefits the super rich. All of Trump's kid stand to earn hundreds of millions in extra income if this tax is wiped out including Ivanka who works in the White House and has been holding dinners for lawmakers trying to get support for these tax initiatives. It cannot be allowed to pass!



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sethnintendo on 20 October 2017
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
It sounds like good Capitalism if it is true. Then there will be a trickle down effect and magically everyone will eventually become rich.

Can't wait to be pissed on again.



sethnintendo on 20 October 2017
Superman4 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

THose quarters were not because of trump but because of actual businesses holding the market together. Trump blindly attributed stock market rises to himself and stated that they would somehow affect the national debt. Seriously....I don't know what else to say.

Trump actually did help the stock market. Whether it turns out to be long term or not we will have to wait and see. His stance on policies is a big driver in stock price. If however he doesnt get what he wants or changes his stance then the market will drop. Companies have high hopes right now that they will make more money in a Trump economy.

His help was the forecast of tax cuts.  Now the white house staff is trying to go around and falsely claim that a tax cut for businesses will in turn have an average salary raise of 5k per year in whatever fuck bullshit years they came up (I believe they stated around 5 years).  They falsely overstated corporate tax burden that is put on workers in form of wage surpression in order to pay their taxes.  They are stating 70-80% while I believe the true figure is around 20-30%.

"The CBO found that about 75 percent of the burden of corporate taxes are borne by owners, and only 25 percent by workers. In 2013, the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation performed it own analysis, and came to the exact same conclusion as the CBO."

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/10/trumps-treasury-department-deleted-research-that-contradicts-republicans-on-tax-reform/

or

https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasury-removes-paper-at-odds-with-mnuchins-take-on-corporate-tax-cuts-winners-1506638463

or

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-report-trump-officials-dont-want-you-to-see/2017/10/02/f6c77a6c-a7ab-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html

Let us not kid our fucking selves.  Do you really think corporations with an influx of money due to lower taxes will increase wages?  They might but I highly fucking doubt 3-4k per year in a half decade or so.  They will use the money to buy back shares for the most part and possibly reinvest (my guess is probably mainly outside the USA).

 

Big fucking whoop.  Market will drop because it was propped up on bullshit.  I agree we could lower corporate taxes but you have to close all loopholes.  Some companies doesn't even pay shit for tax with major corporations like BoA paying under 3% with all the loopholes.  Do you really believe all the loopholes will be closed?  How about that $1.5 trillion to the debt added even with rosy 3% GDP growth projections.  Basically we are going in more debt for the corporations and then perhaps maybe in the future Apple and other companies can bail us out and become our overlords.

You have no stance.  I'm sure you have some good points but your overall conclusion is completely stupid because it is living in the land of fantasy.  Fact is this is a tax plan to help the rich and corporations while throwing chump change at everyone else.  It isn't my fault you guys are so fucking brainwashed to not see the light.  Stop calling shit, gold.  Be fucking up front.  I know you are selling me shit so stop trying to act like it isn't shit.



sethnintendo on 21 October 2017

That is how you successfully kill a thread. Bring actual facts to a debate and the other side that has nothing but bullshit recedes.  Too bad I live in a country where near half the population doesn't believe in history and facts.  I dare any republican to debate me further on this bullshit tax reform.



LurkerJ on 21 October 2017
Signalstar said:
Superman4 said:

Why exactly would anyone be for this ridiculous tax? Do you understand what it is? Lets say you worked for 50 years building a company like the HIlton, when you die you want your kids to inherit what you worked those 50 years for lets say its 100 million. That 100 million has already been taxed as income and is your money free and clear. When you die and will it to your kid, you would expect your kid to get all 100 million right? Why would the goverment be entitled to half of that money because you died? Better yet, why would your son now get taxed on that money as income? Wouldnt that be double taxing money already taxed? This law doesnt affect me since Im not rich and none of my family is but it is a BS law that is designed as a money grab for the goverment. Whatever you earn in your lifetime should be able to get passed down to your children 100%, the goverment is not entitled to any of it.

The rich do not spend their money for the most part. They hoard and save it which helped them get rich in the first place.

Sound like they're wise people. Where's the problem?

Consumer spending is by far the largest sector of the US economy. Because of the estate tax some of that money goes to benefit society. It also encourages rich heirs to be innovative and entrepreneurial instead of being lazy and sitting on their money.

Aren't we supposed to let people live the way they want? A sizeable portion of the poor people are poor because they are lazy. You should be lecturing them, they're the ones that need help. A lazy rich person gets to be lazy, unlike the poor ones.

As it stands, Japan's estate tax means that a sizable fortune would be wiped out in 3 generations unless the heirs invested that money and tried to make it grow. Also if anyone wants the government to receive a smaller amount they can give the money away to charity or invest it in something that will likely create jobs and keep that money flowing through the economy. As it stands the tax only applies to wealth over $5 million for individuals and $11 million for couples. That is an extremely high threshold and only benefits the super rich.

And with what you're proposing, taxing them after they die only HURTS them, that's called discrimination.

All of Trump's kid stand to earn hundreds of millions in extra income if this tax is wiped out including Ivanka who works in the White House and has been holding dinners for lawmakers trying to get support for these tax initiatives. It cannot be allowed to pass!

Successful people ought to fight this targeted theft.

You sound like someone who's butthurt rich people have a lot of money. For the life of me, I'll never understand the rationalizing behind what you are proposing, which is basically stealing. It also encourges rich people to stop reaching new heights, which would ultimately hurt the poor and the middle class.

The rich hire others to INCREASE their wealth, if they realize that increasing their wealth will ultimately decrease it, they will stop hiring. Even if that was not the case, taking money from people who earned it legally isn't moral, it's theft. It doesn't matter if the majority voted to steal that money, it's still theft.

Oh, and like the guy you quoted, I obviously don't have 5 millions in my bank account.



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sethnintendo on 21 October 2017
LurkerJ said:

You sound like someone who's butthurt rich people have a lot of money. For the life of me, I'll never understand the rationalizing behind what you are proposing, which is basically stealing. It also encourges rich people to stop reaching new heights, which would ultimately hurt the poor and the middle class.

The rich hire others to INCREASE their wealth, if they realize that increasing their wealth will ultimately decrease it, they will stop hiring. Even if that was not the case, taking money from people who earned it legally isn't moral, it's theft. It doesn't matter if the majority voted to steal that money, it's still theft.

Oh, and like the guy you quoted, I obviously don't have 5 millions in my bank account.

"In 2004 under President George W. Bush, Washington let corporations temporarily bring money from offshore profits at a flat rate of around 5.25%. But a few years later, Bush's own chief economic advisors said there was no evidence that jobs were created as a result."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/12/bringing-overseas-corporate-profits-back-to-us-not-necessarily-a-job-booster/

 

Guess what??  They bought back shares instead of bringing jobs.  I believe they define insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Guess what... Republicans are insane.  You are insane.



LurkerJ on 21 October 2017
sethnintendo said:
LurkerJ said:

You sound like someone who's butthurt rich people have a lot of money. For the life of me, I'll never understand the rationalizing behind what you are proposing, which is basically stealing. It also encourges rich people to stop reaching new heights, which would ultimately hurt the poor and the middle class.

The rich hire others to INCREASE their wealth, if they realize that increasing their wealth will ultimately decrease it, they will stop hiring. Even if that was not the case, taking money from people who earned it legally isn't moral, it's theft. It doesn't matter if the majority voted to steal that money, it's still theft.

Oh, and like the guy you quoted, I obviously don't have 5 millions in my bank account.

"In 2004 under President George W. Bush, Washington let corporations temporarily bring money from offshore profits at a flat rate of around 5.25%. But a few years later, Bush's own chief economic advisors said there was no evidence that jobs were created as a result."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/12/bringing-overseas-corporate-profits-back-to-us-not-necessarily-a-job-booster/

 

Guess what??  They bought back shares instead of bringing jobs.

This is not the type of tax I am discusing with him though. I am talking about taxing the rich after they've died, which is total BS.



sethnintendo on 21 October 2017
LurkerJ said:
sethnintendo said:

"In 2004 under President George W. Bush, Washington let corporations temporarily bring money from offshore profits at a flat rate of around 5.25%. But a few years later, Bush's own chief economic advisors said there was no evidence that jobs were created as a result."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/12/bringing-overseas-corporate-profits-back-to-us-not-necessarily-a-job-booster/

 

Guess what??  They bought back shares instead of bringing jobs.

This is not the type of tax I am discusing with him though. I am talking about taxing the rich after they've died, which is total BS.

Yea, estate tax aka death tax.  Always a thorny issue on Republican side.  How many people you think have a wealth over 5.34 million?  They must be suffering.



LurkerJ on 21 October 2017
sethnintendo said:
LurkerJ said:

This is not the type of tax I am discusing with him though. I am talking about taxing the rich after they've died, which is total BS.

Yea, estate tax aka death tax.  Always a thorny issue on Republican side.  How many people you think have a wealth over 5.34 million?  They must be suffering.

Not American, I dunno which side favors it and which side doesn't.

I am assuming not many people have over 5.34 millions, which makes them an oppressed minority. Shouldn't liberals fight for those?



S.T.A.G.E. on 21 October 2017
Superman4 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

THose quarters were not because of trump but because of actual businesses holding the market together. Trump blindly attributed stock market rises to himself and stated that they would somehow affect the national debt. Seriously....I don't know what else to say.

Trump actually did help the stock market. Whether it turns out to be long term or not we will have to wait and see. His stance on policies is a big driver in stock price. If however he doesnt get what he wants or changes his stance then the market will drop. Companies have high hopes right now that they will make more money in a Trump economy.

What policies to be exact?  Please dont tell me it rose because of tax cuts.