Your thoughts are based on wrong information.

GT5 and GT6 were far more complete games than any Forza Motorsport game till date. GT6 has 1200 cars, incredible vision Gran Turismo cars which are very much like concept cars from the future, has track visualiser, photo mode, career mode, car customisation, variety of cars in all classes and 70 track layouts. Its the most complete simulation racing game ever released.

Also funny you say Gran Turismo has dazzle effect, the graphics in GT are a lot more sober and grounded in reality than Forza's flamboyant shaders and lighting engine and the occasional weird visual custom parts available. I do agree with your statement on Polyphony, but Forza is far from having all bells and whistles that a racing simulation can do with.

Imo it's a glorified prologue rather then a main entry.  The next main title will be GT7 and will probably  release in 2019 during the ps4's last full year. if they have any sense they will Also Port An Upgraded Version To The PS5 Year 1. 

What's your thoughts on Monster Hunter World. Is that Monster Hunter 5, or just PR talk?

Always interesting when a company drops their numbering in a "rebranding way"

Ahem, Project CARS series. Ahem. ...Ahem...cough, cough...*spitsup some narly mucus* cough...AHEM.

It's sad to see how few people seem to have the understanding that what they are doing to the franchise is EXACTLY what the franchise needs in order to survive. It's so incredibly hypocrite everybody tries to judge the game on the MP component now when it was clear from day 1 that's the new way for the franchise. Much more sophistication and focus on the actual driving is what is happening yet everybody suddenly starts to miss all those 1000s of Miatas and bad quality models everybody kept complaining about for a decade .

It's definitely showing no credible source except Eurogamer has come out with a review yet, simply because they need to focus on the new vision of the game instead of trying to judge it by old standards.

The only aspect I remember from those standard cars forced to race was their dashboard (I didn't race on kitecam), but most times I was on the bumper and passing through the other guys very fast without even focusing on their asses. And although as someone said several of the standard cars were on the lower tiers I remember being able to find standard cars for every race.

If it was so hard to notice, they wouldn't have been criticized by all reviewers and a lot of gamers for doing just that. Killzone Shadow Fall reused some assets from KZ3 on the scenes. Most people didn't noticed, because it was only debris or stuff that was hard to notice. They didn't get criticized for that because, in that case, it really was hard to see. On GT it's quite easy to notice, sorry.

I don't really get your point here. The PS2 models got an upgrade on GT6 to look less disturbing. The ones on GT5 looked laughably bad. The headlights were just textures. The glass used ridiculously bad last gen reflections. This was probably the worst decision they made with the franchise ever and it was a total joke. Just look at the one below. It's downright inexcusable to launch a GT game with a pathetically rendered car like that.

Yes most studios are larger, yet PD have kept their size to 1/3 of Turn 10. Sure they could have increased the size of the studio and made all 1000 models Premium, that could have made the cost 3x larger and the sales nothing more, so just added cost and no profit, which company would choose this?

GT6 sold way less than GT5. That should be a yellow light. If saving costs means ruining the franchise, it's not exactly a good way to save money. Turn 10 costs more but they manage to release games yearly to critical praise and sales are not exactly falling of a clif (360 entries sold more, but that's related to X1 failing hard).

You are the one using wrong definitions and complaining about them? You can consider GT5 and 6 to be inferior than GT4 (I don't, but ok), and call them mediocre by GT Standard, considering 6 games some sould be considered above and others below average on the title.

So you say reviewers giving a 4 to GT5 isn't wrong in any way? OK. Games sure evolve, still scores are reflective of comparative against piers not only their predecessors. Or does it make any sense to say a 80 on GT is worth more than a 90 on Forza?

A 4 is a wrong score since it's too low. I wouldn't say the scores for Forza and GT are not comparable. They are. Forza is in a much better shape. The 360 entries scores higher than GT5 probably because all cars at least looked like Xbox 360 cars. GT6 would of course score worse than the X1 Forza, the game looked dated compared to the competition.

Of course they can change and improve the studio. Yet you'll see a lot of people here asking to close PD since GT5 came out.

I honestly think Sony Japan mismanages all teams. You don't close a team like that, but you have to do something. Or sales will decrease and the studio will end up dead anyway, buried with the franchise.

Sure the models on PS3 were better than what PS3 could handle, yet they done all new models to PS4, so you think they trashed the models because they were too good? I said I would bet you people would complain about recycled content and not being as precise or good as the PS4 model.

I think you didn't understand this. The models they created for the PS3 have dozens of millions of polygons. The Ps4 can't handle more than dozens or hundred thousands per car. The PS2 models were below what the PS3 could render. The PS3 models are beyond what the best PC today could do. You couldn't even tell they were reused. They probably did exactly that and are just saying that to avoid having people that don't understand a thing about rendering complaining.

For god sake, they are threating it as a separate entity, they were prisitine in saying this is a new take for the franchise. And a GT7 exiting or not or how it would be shapped would probably depend on how GTS does.

We have a quote here where they say it's basically GT7. Anyway, just doing GTS means they are not doing GT7 right now.

So porting a PC game to PS4 can be done in 2 weeks by 2 people (testimony from PS4 start of gen), but the models can't be imported to PS4? Ok man.

Porting a completely developed game that was already done and tested. Even in this case, that's quite an exageration because they still have to do QA and it takes easily months. You are comparing that to develop a game from scratch, create challenges, balance it, think about content. It's not comparable.

Ahem, Project CARS series. Ahem. ...Ahem...cough, cough...*spitsup some narly mucus* cough...AHEM.

Why? 300 hours? Mistyped an eztra zero or something? I thought my 150-200 hours in PC1 was fairly impressive and I loved it to bits but I can't imagine doubling that if I thought it wasn't that good. Damn.

DonFerrari said:

Yep, and Kaz answer to that at the time of GT5 was that they put the cars in just for the ones that wanted to use to be able to, and as you put after severe backlash they improved for GT6 and now removed for GTS.

It was BS because it was not optional. You ended up having to use the cars or at least race against them. They look better in GT6 and now they are finally gone forever. I'm happy with the visuals now.

I didn't said the differences wouldn't be easy to notice, I said that when I was racing I didn't took much time (usually less than 30s) to pass the standard cars on the race so I used very little time to look at them, even more that most of the issues were from close ups, like the screen you send, and I would pass very little time so close to any car. We all know the models were very simplistics.

Replays were full of close-ups. That screenshot is from the initial camera angles before a race. If you use one of the standard cars you'll see this camera before every single race.

GT6 sold about half of GT5. FM6 sold 2M against 4.5M of FM3. While GT6 sold close to 6M against GT5 12M. So which franchise is really failing from a clif?

FM6 relased on the X1. The console sold way less than the predecessor so all franchises are being affected. Halo, Gears, all suffered. The terrible sales of X1 even managed to tank a promissing new IP (Titanfall). GT6 released on the same console as GT5, so it's comparable. Anyway, I still think its sales have more to do with the release windows than with the game itself. Also mind when comparing Forza sales that they release the game yearly, so you would have to sum up the numbers to compare with GT. Not that it will be ahead, but the difference is not so pathetically huge.

Ok so 4 is wrong, and considering the type of games that usually gets a low 80 (or in the case of GTS at the moment getting 77) what type of games are there? Do they stand on the same standard? And FM5 launched on X360 didn't it? Did it look or played better than GT6? NO. And GT5 had more content above the level than FM3/4 that even taking out everything you didn't like on GT5 you would have more game than there.

Let's look at Forza's scores:

Forza 3 - 92

Forza 4 - 91

Forza 5 - 79

Forza 6 - 87

Forza 7 - 86

GT5 got an 84. Not that far from Forza's and quite good considering that Forza never included last gen cars. GT5 had more content but half of it was PS2 assets. Critics were quite clear: it would be better to not have it. GT6 is an 81, reasonable and even above FM6 that released the same year. It was a passable sequel with few new things and a lot of stuff lacking from GT5. Right now GTS is at 78. It's also not that far off even from current Forza games.

Sony Japan doesn't manage PD. They are close to independent. They could give more suggestion or push more, but the studio is for Kaz, he made the studio from the 0 and have control over it. And if he buries what he himself brought to life so be it. Still in his worse days he sold more than any other racer besides MK.

I'm not discussing his previous achievements. And neither should Sony. Sega died because the higher-ups were having stupid ideas and everyone was afraid of going against the guys that created Sonic, Nights, etc.

I simply want to know what's the problem. They are not independent, Sony pays the bill for the games and owns the studio. So if Sony wants to shake things up, they will. If it's lack of  budget, Sony has to give them more money. If it's bad management, fire some people. SCEJ (former name, I know) manages that stuff, so it's their fault in both cases.

I think you didn't understand this. The models they created for the PS3 have dozens of millions of polygons. The Ps4 can't handle more than dozens or hundred thousands per car. The PS2 models were below what the PS3 could render. The PS3 models are beyond what the best PC today could do. You couldn't even tell they were reused. They probably did exactly that and are just saying that to avoid having people that don't understand a thing about rendering complaining.

So please explain if they already have about 600 models that could be used on GTS why take money to make 160 new models instead of just using the same ones? The models could have high poly count (I do remember they saying it), but are they up to the same standard? Are there 600 different car models being used on FIA competitions?

I don't believe they created the new models. They already had it. And they are probably up to standards of offline rendering used in CG films. Of course they are up to the standard, you should get more informed about how modeling form games works nowadays.

They just said they created it form scratch to avoid people complaining like they did with GT5. Now, they would be just complaining for no reason, because the models are not last-gen. They are actually next(x5)-gen. Just good old PR here.

You mean a quote on an interview that they said you could call it GT7 because it have enough content. That isn't saying this is a continuation that should be called GT7, it's a different game.

I agree with you here that it is not GT7. They were just trying to make it look like it was not a prologue. It's more like a prologue on steroids that could end up being a great spin-off. If the FIA competitions become huge, then it will be a success,

Nope it's comparable. They have all the models, they could have easily included they in the car roster without doing much. They have the race brackets and the career that could be used into the game. The challenges they created new. So if they so much decided they could do a fast release with that content without much cost.

You need logic, physics, collisions, etc. Sounds, a bunch of stuff. It's way more than the models, really. The best case scenario here is a distance alike GT5 Prologue and full GT5 release.