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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Sonic Forces Switch ver. wll be 720p / 30fps on Docked and Undocked

Very odd... Wonder what it'll play like.

I'm okay with 720p, the 30 fps though... *struggles*

Why not try for 60 in docked?



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curl-6 said:
monocle_layton said:

Odyssey runs 720 fp 60fps on handheld and 900 fps/60 fps docked. 

 

What a load of bullshit.

Well, Nintendo EAD are vastly better programmers than Sonic Team.

To their defense, Nintendo EAD only has to develop a single version of the game.



zygote said:

This is a bad trend and looks like Doom set the FPS standard.  Doom is understandable as the graphics powerhouse that it is, but this game should not be at those same expectations.  I would expect at least 1080p docked or higher framerate.  Sadly, I think Mario Odyssey set the 720p standard. I know we are still seeing the limitations of the system, but we have also seen some pretty impressive outcomes with some titles.  I think it comes down to an efficiency issue with how the games were designed and developed and the amount of time that the developers are willing to put into the port.  I would say that it is much easier to just make a PS4/Xbox one port 720p and 30fps and call it a day.  Take NBA 2K18, sure the game has pretty high visuals, but the files sizes are outrageous.  I do not think that developers are at an acceptance with Switch where they are willing to dedicate their development cycle to these considerations just yet.  As they game more experience with the system and Switch keeps dominating the market in the upcoming year, we will likely see these trends change but how long until is the issue. 

Odyssey is 900p though...



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

nuckles87 said:
Nuvendil said:

The game appears to take no advantage of the Dock mode at all.  And Doom is WAY more technically demanding than Sonic Forces.  And Snake Pass cut back on visuals but kept the same performance.  I'm not raging too hard here because it isn't a $60 game aiming to be among the biggest selling games on the Switch (*cough*Fifa*cough*).   But at least upping the resolution in dock would be a token effort even if they didn't want to code to the metal and shoot for 60fps.  

That's the "lazy" part people are complaining about.

I really wouldn't say Doom is "way more technically demanding." Both games are very different in terms of design and art style, but both are gorgeous looking, current gen games. Both games are also made for current gen hardware, and both games feature the same resolution and frame rate in both docked and undocked modes. The same is also true of Rocket League, which managed 60 fps in portable mode and has 720p resolution in both modes.  I think people are overestimating how much of a boost Switch games get in docked mode. No boost in resolution and frame rate in docked mode ain't just a Sonic Forces thing. I've no doubt Wolfenstein 2 will have similar issues. There is more to a game's graphics than resolution and frame rate, and its very possible these demanding games simply need to put the extra power docked mode provides into other things that will help them look better on a big tv.

Docked or undocked, the Switch is still a console with a mobile processor trying to run games that were designed to run on hardware FAR more powerful than it.

Doom is considerably more advanced than Sonic Forces, its shaders, texturing, modelling, effects, etc are on another level.

When docked, Switch gets a x2.5 boost to GPU speed. That's similar to the boost from PS4 to PS4 Pro. If games like Doom and Sonic Forces do indeed use that power to boost things like shadows or draw distance instead of resolution, then yeah, that's fine, but if it has no graphical improvement that means the docked mode is only using 40% of its power, and that's a pretty clear case of a sub-par port.



shikamaru317 said:
curl-6 said:

Well, Nintendo EAD are vastly better programmers than Sonic Team.

You're comparing a first party team with a 3rd party team, not really a fair comparison. Sonic Team has to optimize Forces for XB1, PS4, and dozens of possible PC hardware configurations in addition to Switch, Nintendo EAD only has to optimize for Switch. Rare is the 3rd party game that can match the graphics of the exclusives on any platform. 

True but even so, there are few devs out there that produce games as polished and optimized as EAD, and Sonic Team aren't one of those few. Lost World for example was an exclusive, still didn't rival Nintendo's games.



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shikamaru317 said:
curl-6 said:

True but even so, there are few devs out there that produce games as polished and optimized as EAD, and Sonic Team aren't one of those few. Lost World for example was an exclusive, still didn't rival Nintendo's games.

To be fair, Lost World was made by Sonic Team's "B team", while the more skilled "A team" was working on Forces (Forces has been in development since shortly after Generations released). It is true that Sonic Team are no longer known for being particularly skilled at programming like they once were in the 90's (the Yakuza team now has Sega's best programmers), but I wouldn't call them bad at programming either.  

Oh I wouldn't call them bad at programming, I never meant to imply that. They just may have done a poor job with the Switch version, though that remains to be seen.



zygote said:

This is a bad trend and looks like Doom set the FPS standard.  Doom is understandable as the graphics powerhouse that it is, but this game should not be at those same expectations.  I would expect at least 1080p docked or higher framerate.  Sadly, I think Mario Odyssey set the 720p standard. I know we are still seeing the limitations of the system, but we have also seen some pretty impressive outcomes with some titles.  I think it comes down to an efficiency issue with how the games were designed and developed and the amount of time that the developers are willing to put into the port.  I would say that it is much easier to just make a PS4/Xbox one port 720p and 30fps and call it a day.  Take NBA 2K18, sure the game has pretty high visuals, but the files sizes are outrageous.  I do not think that developers are at an acceptance with Switch where they are willing to dedicate their development cycle to these considerations just yet.  As they game more experience with the system and Switch keeps dominating the market in the upcoming year, we will likely see these trends change but how long until is the issue. 

Are you talking about the E3 build of Odyssey? That was reported to be 720p. However, Digital Foundry have confirmed that the latest build/previews of Mario Odyssey runs at 900p at 60fps docked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt73EVyOBoQ

Nintendo apparently optimizes their games and build them up in resolution. Splatoon 2 is another example of this.



Mr Puggsly said:
maxleresistant said:
30fps for sonic is just a very bad idea. They should downgrade the graphics more to reach 60fps.

Could be CPU issue and its safe to assume they're were building with PS4/X1 specs as the priority.

Sonic Generations was 30 fps, wasn't ideal but still very playable.

I know that there is a reason, there is always a reason, good or bad, I'm just saying that people should not buy a 30fps sonic. It's really not as good, and being able to play on a portable does not make up for it.



maxleresistant said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Could be CPU issue and its safe to assume they're were building with PS4/X1 specs as the priority.

Sonic Generations was 30 fps, wasn't ideal but still very playable.

I know that there is a reason, there is always a reason, good or bad, I'm just saying that people should not buy a 30fps sonic. It's really not as good, and being able to play on a portable does not make up for it.

That depends on the individual. I think a lot of people would consider 30fps a fair trade for being able to play it on the bus/train or on their lunch break, especially considering previous 30fps Sonic games like Generations and Colours have been well received.



curl-6 said:
maxleresistant said:

I know that there is a reason, there is always a reason, good or bad, I'm just saying that people should not buy a 30fps sonic. It's really not as good, and being able to play on a portable does not make up for it.

That depends on the individual. I think a lot of people would consider 30fps a fair trade for being able to play it on the bus/train or on their lunch break, especially considering previous 30fps Sonic games like Generations and Colours have been well received.

Yeah, the only 3D Sonic game in the last two generations to be 60fps was Lost World and that didn't go over nearly as well as Generations.

Hopefully this was a time thing as they say in the interview and as time goes on, those 3rd parties who can be assed (right now it seems that would be Bethesda, Square, 2k, and Sega most prominently) will get better and better as they will have full dev cycles to get the Switch going rather than having half the time.  We'll see.