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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's Stock: Values Keep Rising

Wyrdness said:
Mnementh said:

Look at the numbers, even including debts their assets have more worth than Nintendos.

Yeah and?

That's only one factor in market movements and speculation, all their money solely comes from the PS side of things right now and like Kowenicki mentioned if something went wrong like they have another PS3 early years debacle or PS brand was ditched it would send their value into free fall as unlike Nintendo they haven't always made money consistently and their future would be a massive question.

In the long run investors see more money coming in from Nintendo as even if they were to have a worst case scenario and go third party drop out of gaming the worth of IPs like Mario and Pokemon would still bring in a tonne of money. That's how stock markets work on future value speculation not just pure numbers.

Nope. This is just as misinfromed as thinking Sony should be worth more than Nintendo due to more assets.



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Teeqoz said:
Wyrdness said:

Yeah and?

That's only one factor in market movements and speculation, all their money solely comes from the PS side of things right now and like Kowenicki mentioned if something went wrong like they have another PS3 early years debacle or PS brand was ditched it would send their value into free fall as unlike Nintendo they haven't always made money consistently and their future would be a massive question.

In the long run investors see more money coming in from Nintendo as even if they were to have a worst case scenario and go third party drop out of gaming the worth of IPs like Mario and Pokemon would still bring in a tonne of money. That's how stock markets work on future value speculation not just pure numbers.

Nope. This is just as misinfromed as thinking Sony should be worth more than Nintendo due to more assets.

Care to qualify that?



Hedra42 said:
Teeqoz said:

Nope. This is just as misinfromed as thinking Sony should be worth more than Nintendo due to more assets.

Care to qualify that?

Actually, I can.

their camera division is still doing well due to thier monopoly on movie/broadcasting cameras.

they have a freaking BANK in japan.

they are also a music company that has a ton of publishing rights

thier film sector, while not consistant, brings in a small chunk of revenue after all is through.

however, one thing is true: if PS ever stumbles, sony could just crash and burn. THATS the main problem sony has at this point. they are not the sony that just shrugged off the losses via selling ps3s, and they are not nintendo, whose first party IPs are so strong that, if all else fails, go third party and still make a killing.

plus is nintendo stumbles, they can pay out of thier vault, if sony does, they have to sell stuff or get into even MORE debt.



Hedra42 said:
Teeqoz said:

Nope. This is just as misinfromed as thinking Sony should be worth more than Nintendo due to more assets.

Care to elaborate how this is misinformed?

Easy. Sony gets loads of money (and profit) from non-PS businesses.

Here's Sony's results per segment for the 12 months ending on march 30th:

As you can see, Sony had higher operating income from financial services (primarily life insurance), than gaming, and they also had sizeable profits from Music, Home Entertainment & Sound (TVs and speakers et.al) and Imaging Products and Solutions (cameras and lenses and stuff like that).

The narrative that the only segment of Sony currently doing well is Playstation is quite wrong. It is one of the best performing, and in the future might become the best performing segment, but still not the only one making money.



Teeqoz said:
Hedra42 said:

Care to elaborate how this is misinformed?

Easy. Sony gets loads of money (and profit) from non-PS businesses.

Here's Sony's results per segment for the 12 months ending on march 30th:

As you can see, Sony had higher operating income from financial services (primarily life insurance), than gaming, and they also had sizeable profits from Music, Home Entertainment & Sound (TVs and speakers et.al) and Imaging Products and Solutions (cameras and lenses and stuff like that).

The narrative that the only segment of Sony currently doing well is Playstation is quite wrong. It is one of the best performing, and in the future might become the best performing segment, but still not the only one making money.

Thanks. It's only fair to provide supporting info when calling someone out for being wrong.

[Edit]

Although it should be noted that Game and Network has the highest positive percentage change from 2015 to 2016, and in terms of operating income, is not far behind Finance. The rest are way behind.



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I'm surprised all the financial experts in this thread haven't given any thought to the huge difference between the dividend forecasts of both companies.



Hedra42 said:
Teeqoz said:

Easy. Sony gets loads of money (and profit) from non-PS businesses.

Here's Sony's results per segment for the 12 months ending on march 30th:

As you can see, Sony had higher operating income from financial services (primarily life insurance), than gaming, and they also had sizeable profits from Music, Home Entertainment & Sound (TVs and speakers et.al) and Imaging Products and Solutions (cameras and lenses and stuff like that).

The narrative that the only segment of Sony currently doing well is Playstation is quite wrong. It is one of the best performing, and in the future might become the best performing segment, but still not the only one making money.

Thanks. It's only fair to provide supporting info when calling someone out for being wrong.

Although it should be noted that Game and Network has the highest positive percentage change from 2015 to 2016, and in terms of operating income, is not far behind Finance. The rest are way behind.

Like I said, it is one of the best performing segments, and I think it'll probably become the best performing segment (in fact Sony forecasts that for FY17), but it's not the only money maker. Their forecast for FY17 has Gaming at 180 Bn yen operating income, with the whole company at 500 Bn yen. And even then, that is misleading, because they are forecasting one segment (corporate and elimination, which I guess is basically management, accounting, legal fees and loads of other stuff) to lose 200 Bn, and the other segments making 700 Bn, giving a net result of 500 Bn. So of those 700 Bn in positive operating income, Playstation contributes 180 Bn, or about 25%.



Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

Eh, from Switch launch, Nintendo stocks  are constantly raising.

Which from a stock valuation market indicates an overpriced stock. A real easy tip off is to look at net profit ... if their stock is almost the same price as it was during the Wii/DS days, the profit numbers should be close too ... but they're not even close. When a company's bottom line profit doesn't reflect the price of the stock, that's a massive sign that you're buying a stock inflated by speculation. 

Investors are too giddy over China, piracy is rampant in China. Nintendo has tried various ventures in China before to limited success. 

That's because Nintendo has had only one quarter of financials released for the Switch (Q1) where profits nearly doubled. This is even with weaker hardware sales (only about 2 million that quarter). 

Investors don't look at pure profit. They look at growth. The reason the stock went up is because analyst revised their projections for the system upward to 130 million sold. This is what drove the stock up. Investors are looking at future profits (which is what you're missing). Switch's profits aren't going to match the Wii and DS years because we are talking about one quarter. Investors are expecting a huge increase in earnings for the rest of the year,



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Teeqoz said:
Hedra42 said:

Care to elaborate how this is misinformed?

Easy. Sony gets loads of money (and profit) from non-PS businesses.

Here's Sony's results per segment for the 12 months ending on march 30th:

As you can see, Sony had higher operating income from financial services (primarily life insurance), than gaming, and they also had sizeable profits from Music, Home Entertainment & Sound (TVs and speakers et.al) and Imaging Products and Solutions (cameras and lenses and stuff like that).

The narrative that the only segment of Sony currently doing well is Playstation is quite wrong. It is one of the best performing, and in the future might become the best performing segment, but still not the only one making money.

Your assessment is misleading. Lets look at the actual numbers.

Gaming and Network Services are #1 in terms of revenue and #2 in terms of operating income. In fact, in terms of both revenue and profit, this divisions blows the others (outside of Financial Services) out of the water. The next closest, home entertainment, only made 58.5 billion with a profit ratio of only 5 percent compared to Gaming 8 percent. When you combine the profit of music, image production and home entertainment, they make up about 180 billion as compared to gamings 135 billion. Its not good when one division makes up 75 percent of three other divisions. This doesn't even speak to the fact that three of these divisions are losing money (with one of them doing better this year if you can beleive that).

Also, the insurance business is based on taking premiums and reinvesting them to build a cushion. The profit it makes will likely go back to buying more investments in case Sony has to pay out a lot (like a missile hitting Tokyo and killing a lot of people, for instance). 

So no, not every single dollar is coming from gaming (no one was saying that anyway). But of all of Sony's divisions, gaming is what is doing well. The problem is this industry is very volitile. Nintendo has stated this is why they have so much cash. Sony had loses in 2013 and 2014 and in those years and insurance didn't save them (in fact, that divisions had higher operating profit in those years). And many of these divisions that were doing well this year had loses in those years. This is what everyone is talking about. The only division worth its weight is gaming as the others, besides maybe music and finance, have been dragging the company down. If the PS5 doesn't nail the landing, Sony could be in very hot water with worse credit than they were at the begining of the Great Recession.



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VideoGameAccountant said:
Teeqoz said:

Easy. Sony gets loads of money (and profit) from non-PS businesses.

Here's Sony's results per segment for the 12 months ending on march 30th:

As you can see, Sony had higher operating income from financial services (primarily life insurance), than gaming, and they also had sizeable profits from Music, Home Entertainment & Sound (TVs and speakers et.al) and Imaging Products and Solutions (cameras and lenses and stuff like that).

The narrative that the only segment of Sony currently doing well is Playstation is quite wrong. It is one of the best performing, and in the future might become the best performing segment, but still not the only one making money.

Your assessment is misleading. Lets look at the actual numbers.

Gaming and Network Services are #1 in terms of revenue and #2 in terms of operating income. In fact, in terms of both revenue and profit, this divisions blows the others (outside of Financial Services) out of the water. The next closest, home entertainment, only made 58.5 billion with a profit ratio of only 5 percent compared to Gaming 8 percent. When you combine the profit of music, image production and home entertainment, they make up about 180 billion as compared to gamings 135 billion. Its not good when one division makes up 75 percent of three other divisions. This doesn't even speak to the fact that three of these divisions are losing money (with one of them doing better this year if you can beleive that).

Also, the insurance business is based on taking premiums and reinvesting them to build a cushion. The profit it makes will likely go back to buying more investments in case Sony has to pay out a lot (like a missile hitting Tokyo and killing a lot of people, for instance). 

So no, not every single dollar is coming from gaming (no one was saying that anyway). But of all of Sony's divisions, gaming is what is doing well. The problem is this industry is very volitile. Nintendo has stated this is why they have so much cash. Sony had loses in 2013 and 2014 and in those years and insurance didn't save them (in fact, that divisions had higher operating profit in those years). And many of these divisions that were doing well this year had loses in those years. This is what everyone is talking about. The only division worth its weight is gaming as the others, besides maybe music and finance, have been dragging the company down. If the PS5 doesn't nail the landing, Sony could be in very hot water with worse credit than they were at the begining of the Great Recession.

The person I replied to did literally say "all their money solely comes from the PS side of things right now". And I can allow for some exaggeration for dramatic effect, but that statement is far enough from the truth that I called it out.

As for Playstation being a very important segment for Sony, I haven't claimed otherwise, which you would know if you read what I've written in this thread, but Playstation is not close to being the only well performing segment. You have Financials, Music, Semiconductors (which had a bad year in 2016 due to the earthquake in Japan, but is forecast to be back at 100 bn Yen Operating Income this year) all of which are performing well, and some of the other electronic divisions are also doing decently.