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Forums - Politics Discussion - Hillary Clinton's memoir - it was Everyone Else Fault I lost...

eva01beserk said:
TargaryenVers2 said:
I wonder how many people here have actually read her book

Do we need to? She herself is on tour giving us the clift notes.  Why would I read a 512 page book of something that we already know the answer of since we where just there.

It gives a lot more context and is less sensationalized.



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Even the young turks are critical of this. I thought I never would have seen the day. Even demcrats are getting sick of her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqlM78a0Gc 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

TargaryenVers2 said:
eva01beserk said:

Do we need to? She herself is on tour giving us the clift notes.  Why would I read a 512 page book of something that we already know the answer of since we where just there.

It gives a lot more context and is less sensationalized.

How much context do you need, she does interviews and explains in detail some of theese events. Thats tat thing about this is that is a list of diferent events that add up to her loss. So we can take each even independetly without reading the entire thing.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

LadyJasmine said:

 

palou said:

It's really a testament to how shitty the american electoral system is, if the 2 viable presidential candidates poll solidly and consistently bellow 40% with the public.

 

You have 3 groups really in the USA...

40% back Trump

40% back Hillary/Democrats

20% are pox on both your houses in the States these days...

I think Trump is closer to 30%.



LadyJasmine said:
Jaicee said:

So what you're saying is that the public fell in love with her opponent, Donald Trump's...personal humility? Really?

The media, Hillary and the democrats and many people like yourself vastly underestimated Trump...

Frankly it does not require a 6 figure salary to realize Trump path to victory was working class voters in the rust belt lol

Nailed it. It amazes me how few people seem to recognize this.

Clinton had very little to appeal to the working class voters. The Clinton's have a very cozy relationship with Wallstreet and central bankers, are pro free-trade, her husband signed NAFTA into law, not to mentioned Hillary spearheaded the "NAFTA on roids" TPP. Trump (similar to Bernie) ran heavily on an anti-free trade platform and anti-outsourcing, which places with a decimated working class like Michigan and where industry once was the backbone of the local economies responded to. Hence the loss of the Blue Wall/Rust Belt, which was also her ultimate downfall. This is why I feel strongly that Bernie would have won the election had the Democrats ran him out there rather than making the foolish decision to box him out (similar to what Republicans did to Ron Paul in 2012), as he had much overlap to Trump in this regard.

Hillary thought she could essentially run on the luster of the first woman president along with "well at least I'm not Trump!" but as it turns out the majority of Americans care about more than trivial things than this, such as having a decent job with liveable wages and being able to support a family. Not that Trump's going to be the one to actually carry this out but at the very least he did a hell of a better job selling this angle than Hillary. Also, most people outside college students and privleged rich coastal elites don't give two shits about identity politics in the grand scheme of things, which was Clinton's other major platform.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

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eva01beserk said:
LadyJasmine said:

Who cares what you think?

It was Hillary and her idiotic campaign officials thought and Hillarybots thought and they were wrong costing them election.

 

Now they bitch and moan now and most people are saying fuck off 

 

that is all

Quick question, but aside from you not liking hillary, whats your political leaning? 

Since your from canada I want to know how you see PC culture being forced on to canadians. I know it just became bad enouff that you get fined or more for refusal to adres the desire pronoun. How do you see that being enforced? is there backlash? is canada divided like we are? like extreme pc californi and conservative texas.

Im only asking cuz I belive hillary would have been our trudeau, and belive that while some might want all that nonsense at first, they soon regret it as it scalades and become extreme. 

 

I would say I am pretty undecided in my head... I am more moderate but supported Trudeau in the last election. I am getting more liberal socially and economically over time but I do dislike the authoritarian tendencies of PC culture.

 

Canada is pretty liberal but there has been a sizeable pushback against nonsense like forcing people to use gender pronouns and that kind of stuff is largely focused in Universities... I would argue urban California is more Liberal then Canada.

 

Canada is not as divided but there is a sizable portion on the right who are anti PC and a sizeable portion on the left who are delusional.

 

Trudeau biggest flaw is he is a man of all talk, nice hair, and socks but of little action. 

 

If Hillary was elected, things would have been better but Hillary vast unpopularity would have meant a failed Presidency 



TargaryenVers2 said:
I wonder how many people here have actually read her book

I suspect I am the only person here who has even read part of it.

eva01beserk said:

Even the young turks are critical of this. I thought I never would have seen the day. Even demcrats are getting sick of her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqlM78a0Gc 

"Even the Young Turks"? Here's a news flash for those who haven't been keeping up: The Young Turks opposed Clinton in the Democratic primaries in both 2008 and 2016 and have ALWAYS been critical of her. They still endorsed her after she won the Democratic nomination, but my point is: Why should one be shocked that they maintain the same critiques they've always had of her now?

I'm not uncritical of her either (I did vote for Bernie Sanders in the primaries and my own political views are, in actuality, well to the left of his), but I am also very much a pragmatist and one who tends to view candidates for public office as human (with the possible exception of our current president), and yes I do indeed think that there were a mountain of factors besides Hillary Clinton's in reality minor shortcomings (like failing to visit this or that state, speaking with unnecessary caution, changing a couple of stances between 1994 and 2016 like no one else has ever done, etc.) and that Clinton's assessment of what those were in her new book isn't way off base.



Hillary's new fact-checker speaks truthiness to power (this is not a parody, read it yourself).



https://verrit.com/every-major-media-narrative-about-2016-is-demonstrably-false/

 

FAKE: Hillary Clinton was a “flawed” candidate.

FACT: Hillary Clinton is the first woman in history to become the presidential nominee of a major party. Would anyone characterize that as a “flaw?” Singling out Hillary Clinton as “flawed” when all humans are flawed has a decidedly sexist tinge. [:D] There is nothing particularly flawed about working a lifetime to become one of the most accomplished women in political history.



Jaicee said:
TargaryenVers2 said:
I wonder how many people here have actually read her book

I suspect I am the only person here who has even read part of it.

eva01beserk said:

Even the young turks are critical of this. I thought I never would have seen the day. Even demcrats are getting sick of her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fqlM78a0Gc 

"Even the Young Turks"? Here's a news flash for those who haven't been keeping up: The Young Turks opposed Clinton in the Democratic primaries in both 2008 and 2016 and have ALWAYS been critical of her. They still endorsed her after she won the Democratic nomination, but my point is: Why should one be shocked that they maintain the same critiques they've always had of her now?

I'm not uncritical of her either (I did vote for Bernie Sanders in the primaries and my own political views are, in actuality, well to the left of his), but I am also very much a pragmatist and one who tends to view candidates for public office as human (with the possible exception of our current president), and yes I do indeed think that there were a mountain of factors besides Hillary Clinton's in reality minor shortcomings (like failing to visit this or that state, speaking with unnecessary caution, changing a couple of stances between 1994 and 2016 like no one else has ever done, etc.) and that Clinton's assessment of what those were in her new book isn't way off base.

Cant say I would know much since I hate the young turks and barely saw any of their talks after berney vs hillary. But they where 100% sure hillary was going to win and mostly critized trump. Now they always knew for some reason dint care back then. 

There are always factors, its never a walk in park. If she could not handle opositin then she should just say so.

I Will say this in her favour, the media did an awfull job as well, by being so bias that they tried to make everything sound good in her favour.. That would just make people doubt. the rig debates. Belittling  everything trump said. Every critisim she got was brushed off as nonimportant. They gave her so much spotlight on nonsense about her being the first woman president instead of what her actual policies where. 

only 25% of her tv spotlight was policies. the rest was Im a woman and trump sucks.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

LadyJasmine said:
eva01beserk said:

Quick question, but aside from you not liking hillary, whats your political leaning? 

Since your from canada I want to know how you see PC culture being forced on to canadians. I know it just became bad enouff that you get fined or more for refusal to adres the desire pronoun. How do you see that being enforced? is there backlash? is canada divided like we are? like extreme pc californi and conservative texas.

Im only asking cuz I belive hillary would have been our trudeau, and belive that while some might want all that nonsense at first, they soon regret it as it scalades and become extreme. 

 

I would say I am pretty undecided in my head... I am more moderate but supported Trudeau in the last election. I am getting more liberal socially and economically over time but I do dislike the authoritarian tendencies of PC culture.

 

Canada is pretty liberal but there has been a sizeable pushback against nonsense like forcing people to use gender pronouns and that kind of stuff is largely focused in Universities... I would argue urban California is more Liberal then Canada.

 

Canada is not as divided but there is a sizable portion on the right who are anti PC and a sizeable portion on the left who are delusional.

 

Trudeau biggest flaw is he is a man of all talk, nice hair, and socks but of little action. 

 

If Hillary was elected, things would have been better but Hillary vast unpopularity would have meant a failed Presidency 

So theres still hope for you. Center is the best way to go, so undecided just means you are already on the right path.

Are you in college yet? Just survive that without falling to them saying that there is only right or left. Both have good parts.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.