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Forums - Sales Discussion - Media Create/Famitsu/Dengeki - 28th Aug - 3rd Sep 2017

tbone51 on 07 September 2017
guiduc said:
tbone51 said:

Its been only 1 day though :p

Felt like a week waiting for Kero

 

ryuzaki57 said:
rodea_sky_soldier said:

BUT, this mean 40%~60% of the first shipment, or, Gust just sent ~10.000 copies to the stores. So, The game didn't sold THAT BAD at all.

The retailers didn't want the Switch version. Switchers didn't want the few units retailers reluctantly accepted. Yeah, that seems perfectly fine... 

rodea_sky_soldier said:

IN OTHER WORDS, Gust KNEW would sell low, and didn't expected so mutch. And the Switch version was just fine.

Then maybe they should just stop developing those Switch multiplats, if they KNOW it won't sell.

"Switchers"

This right here folks is why ryuzaki posts are crap. He literally says it all here.

 

And your 2nd post is funny too. Shows NO BIAS at all smh

 

Warned ~ CGI



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Farsala on 07 September 2017
tbone51 said:
guiduc said:

Felt like a week waiting for Kero

 

ryuzaki57 said:

The retailers didn't want the Switch version. Switchers didn't want the few units retailers reluctantly accepted. Yeah, that seems perfectly fine... 

Then maybe they should just stop developing those Switch multiplats, if they KNOW it won't sell.

"Switchers"

This right here folks is why ryuzaki posts are crap. He literally says it all here.

 

And your 2nd post is funny too. Shows NO BIAS at all smh

Insinuating or calling him biased doesn't help. Be like me saying the same thing for over 20 posters in this thread.



Kerotan on 07 September 2017
Lawlight said:
PS4 making the most out of a dead region.

Remember the posts we used to get when it was selling around 5k weekly.  The likes of me and you knew sales would pick up and become healthy like they are today. 

 

Do you think this year will beat last years sales?  



hiska-kun on 08 September 2017
ryuzaki57 said:
rodea_sky_soldier said:

BUT, this mean 40%~60% of the first shipment, or, Gust just sent ~10.000 copies to the stores. So, The game didn't sold THAT BAD at all.

The retailers didn't want the Switch version. Switchers didn't want the few units retailers reluctantly accepted. Yeah, that seems perfectly fine... 

rodea_sky_soldier said:

IN OTHER WORDS, Gust KNEW would sell low, and didn't expected so mutch. And the Switch version was just fine.

Then maybe they should just stop developing those Switch multiplats, if they KNOW it won't sell.

Unfortunately, companies won't grant your wishes.



Media Create Annual Archive (Spanish version)

http://zonaforo.meristation.com/topic/2246651/

outlawauron on 08 September 2017
Kresnik said:
Symbios63 said:

Lol, I put few numbers in a post and I am accused of damage control and agenda pushing. 

Well, sorry but no, I have no agenda on the matter and I just wrote something that made sense to me. I kind of understand from your answer that I may be wrong, so be it ! I still believe that there are people in Japan that would have bought this game on Switch but have not been lucky enough to buy one so far...(this is where user base may be of importance) Or are you telling me that every "NoA2 friendly" gamers that want a switch have one already ? Based on what ? I mean, they may represent very few people but we don't know about that so far.

Anyway, with a game selling that bad overall, drawing conclusions on why a developer should stop working with a hardware manufacturer seems a bit much to me. Or based on your One Piece example, should every One Piece game to come be released on switch ?

By the way, I never said that user base is the only parameter of importance but just that it is strange to describe those specific game sales as "Nintendo audience clearly demonstrated its disdain" when they are pretty much what one would expect based on the game total sales and respective userbase.

I know some games will sell more on a platform or on another regardless of userbase. NoA2 sales are just IMO a very bad example of this.

I didn't really take any heed with what Ryuzaki was saying to be honest, I'm simply responding to your post.

I'm sorry if it came across a bit harsh, but I'm just sick to death of people using the attach ratio argument to justify things. It's a really terrible metric to measure anything because niche software does not scale with userbases beyond a certain point. Big releases do; small releases don't. And attach ratios are only ever used when consoles are in their early stages and don't have a big userbase as justification of "well it'll get better once they sell more consoles!" even though plenty of early games sell well because a console is in its early stages with a lack of alternative software available.

FYI, my stance on the matter is that NoA2's Japanese sales don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. Koei-Tecmo will be looking to western sales for whether to continue with Gust games on the platform, just like how Nippon ichi committed to the platform despite Disgaea 5 bombing domestically; because it did so well overseas to make up for it.

Eventually, Switch will absorb more of the type of gamer that Gust target just naturally as Vita declines further. Whether that's still viable domestically I have no idea, but if they're making up for it overseas then I'm sure they won't care.

It's all very presumptive. It could be like Fate/Extella on Switch and bomb just as badly in the West as it did in Japan. While the West can very much save a lot of these Switch multiplats, it's very fair to say that right now, the audience for these games isn't there in Japan.

I agree that I can see Switch potentially grabbing some of the Vita audience, but I don't see it taking away from PS4 anytime soon. If ryuzaki had a different username, he wouldn't be getting ganged up on.



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Symbios63 on 08 September 2017
outlawauron said:
Kresnik said:

I didn't really take any heed with what Ryuzaki was saying to be honest, I'm simply responding to your post.

I'm sorry if it came across a bit harsh, but I'm just sick to death of people using the attach ratio argument to justify things. It's a really terrible metric to measure anything because niche software does not scale with userbases beyond a certain point. Big releases do; small releases don't. And attach ratios are only ever used when consoles are in their early stages and don't have a big userbase as justification of "well it'll get better once they sell more consoles!" even though plenty of early games sell well because a console is in its early stages with a lack of alternative software available.

FYI, my stance on the matter is that NoA2's Japanese sales don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. Koei-Tecmo will be looking to western sales for whether to continue with Gust games on the platform, just like how Nippon ichi committed to the platform despite Disgaea 5 bombing domestically; because it did so well overseas to make up for it.

Eventually, Switch will absorb more of the type of gamer that Gust target just naturally as Vita declines further. Whether that's still viable domestically I have no idea, but if they're making up for it overseas then I'm sure they won't care.

It's all very presumptive. It could be like Fate/Extella on Switch and bomb just as badly in the West as it did in Japan. While the West can very much save a lot of these Switch multiplats, it's very fair to say that right now, the audience for these games isn't there in Japan.

I agree that I can see Switch potentially grabbing some of the Vita audience, but I don't see it taking away from PS4 anytime soon. If ryuzaki had a different username, he wouldn't be getting ganged up on.

I think we need real multiplats with same release date to get a good idea on "Will the switch be a good platform for those games in Japan?"

Fate/Extella was a late port and so was Disgaea, Dragon Quest Heroes and probably few more. NoA2 was a good test but considering sales distribution (which is not that awful for switch) as well as how bad the game did overall, no conclusion can be seriously drawn from the sales of this game IMO. 

As you mentionned it is still early in the console life cycle and there still may be a decent growth for that kind of audience on switch (and yeah maybe it won't happen).

By the way, I don't think many people believe that the Gust kind of games will sell more on switch than PS4. But I do think that Switch might become a decent home for those (like I don't know : 2/3PS4, 1/3 Switch or 50/50).

Finally as I was the first to react to Ryusaki's post, I have to say it was not an attack, I was just pointing out that the VERY strong conclusions in his post seemed unlogical to me based on the example he used (as mentionned previously, if the game did 50k on PS4 30k on Vita and 4k on Switch, it would be a different story...)



Lawlight on 08 September 2017
Kerotan said:
Lawlight said:
PS4 making the most out of a dead region.

Remember the posts we used to get when it was selling around 5k weekly.  The likes of me and you knew sales would pick up and become healthy like they are today. 

 

Do you think this year will beat last years sales?  

Depends on how GT Sports does. Last year had the Slim model release. But I think it will start 2018 with a bang with Dissidia and Ni No Kuni 2.



NoCtiS_NoX on 08 September 2017
Symbios63 said:

I think we need real multiplats with same release date to get a good idea on "Will the switch be a good platform for those games in Japan?"

Fate/Extella was a late port and so was Disgaea, Dragon Quest Heroes and probably few more. NoA2 was a good test but considering sales distribution (which is not that awful for switch) as well as how bad the game did overall, no conclusion can be seriously drawn from the sales of this game IMO. 

As you mentionned it is still early in the console life cycle and there still may be a decent growth for that kind of audience on switch (and yeah maybe it won't happen).

By the way, I don't think many people believe that the Gust kind of games will sell more on switch than PS4. But I do think that Switch might become a decent home for those (like I don't know : 2/3PS4, 1/3 Switch or 50/50).

Finally as I was the first to react to Ryusaki's post, I have to say it was not an attack, I was just pointing out that the VERY strong conclusions in his post seemed unlogical to me based on the example he used (as mentionned previously, if the game did 50k on PS4 30k on Vita and 4k on Switch, it would be a different story...)

In all honesty Vita and Switch did bad while the PS4 version doing okayish. Normally by observing sequels some of them experience a drop. DQH 1 to DGH 2 hade a drop. One Piece Musuo 1 to 2 had a drop.

The bad part is IMO KT is hoping that atleast Switch version will atleast made some difference but I guess no one really asked for the Sequel.

Also, Atelier Lydie and Souer will be a great indicator. If Switch version will still experience the same kind of sales then I think KT and Gust will pretty much stay way from it for any Gust related games and might focus on PS4 only in Japan and PS4/PC in the west.



Kresnik on 08 September 2017
NoCtiS_NoX said:

In all honesty Vita and Switch did bad while the PS4 version doing okayish. Normally by observing sequels some of them experience a drop. DQH 1 to DGH 2 hade a drop. One Piece Musuo 1 to 2 had a drop.

I mean, there's a drop and then there's this though.

I know the market is in a low, volatile place at the moment but historically Gust titles have sold SO much better than this. I mean, to look at just a few titles from when they were at their peak:

04. / 00. [PS3] Ar tonelico III: Sekai Shuuen no Hikigane wa Shoujo no Uta ga Hajiku (Namco Bandai) - 81.633 / NEW 

01. / 00. [PS3] Atelier Meruru: The Alchemist of Arland 3 # (Gust) {2011.06.23} - 82.585 / NEW 

To put them into perspective, three versions of this game sold less than:

04./00. [PSV] Ciel Nosurge: Ushinawareta Hoshi e Sasagu Uta # <ETC> (Gust) {2012.04.26} (¥5.040) - 33.324 / NEW 

Which was the first four chapters in an episodic title in a series they eventually abandoned because it wasn't selling enough.

It barely sold more than:

05./00. [PS3] Ar Nosurge: Umareizuru Hoshi e Inoru Uta # <RPG> (Gust) {2014.03.06} (¥7.140) - 27.037 / NEW 

However, they did bounce back from the Surge Concerto days, so I'm sure they'll find another hit, but still. They've not really had any success since Atelier Sophie/Nights of Azure 1 at the end of 2015 really. Atelier Firis did badly last year; Blue Reflection under-performed earlier this year and I can't say they'll be happy with these NoA sales either.

Normally they used to just fall back on Atelier but I feel they've run that series into the ground. I can't see Liddy & Soeur doing much, and if it doesn't, I suspect Koei-Tecmo will push them even further towards mobile releases.

Their problem is just that they're rushing everything these days. Atelier Firis was rushed out and had loads of bugs. Blue Reflection seems to have a lack of content and fans were disappointed. They really just need to sit down and work on something solid rather than doing what they're doing now.


Symbios63 said:

By the way, I don't think many people believe that the Gust kind of games will sell more on switch than PS4. But I do think that Switch might become a decent home for those (like I don't know : 2/3PS4, 1/3 Switch or 50/50).

I know they're different ecosystems, but eventually Vita games were going 1-to-1 with PS4 versions in sales; and I have to at least believe that Koei-Tecmo will want Switch to step into those shoes. The console certainly has the potential to fill that gap:

04./00. [PS4] Yoru no Nai Kuni # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥7.344) - 35.907 / NEW 
05./00. [PSV] Yoru no Nai Kuni # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.264) - 32.904 / NEW 
14./00. [PS3] Yoru no Nai Kuni # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥7.344) - 10.416 / NEW 

02./00. [PS4] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥7.344) - 30.759 / NEW 
03./00. [PSV] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥6.264) - 25.805 / NEW 
13./00. [PS3] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥7.344) - 11.542 / NEW 

(Eventually the Vita versions sold slightly more than PS4 in Japan):

754./137. [PSV] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥5.800) - 2.184 / 51.353 (-96%) (32.904 <84,75%>) 
772./140. [PS4] Nights of Azure # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.800) - 2.041 / 50.188 (-96%) (35.907 <88,23%>) 

365./150. [PSV] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥5.800) - 9.858 / 55.426 (-78%) (25.805 <77,10%>) 
392./145. [PS4] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # <RPG> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥6.800) - 8.545 / 55.438 (-82%) (30.759 <77,52%>) 

Of course, Switch will have higher western sales to fall back on like I mentioned previously which should be a helpful hand, but still. 



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Symbios63 on 08 September 2017
Kresnik said:
Symbios63 said:

By the way, I don't think many people believe that the Gust kind of games will sell more on switch than PS4. But I do think that Switch might become a decent home for those (like I don't know : 2/3PS4, 1/3 Switch or 50/50).

I know they're different ecosystems, but eventually Vita games were going 1-to-1 with PS4 versions in sales; and I have to at least believe that Koei-Tecmo will want Switch to step into those shoes. The console certainly has the potential to fill that gap:

04./00. [PS4] Yoru no Nai Kuni # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥7.344) - 35.907 / NEW 
05./00. [PSV] Yoru no Nai Kuni # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.264) - 32.904 / NEW 
14./00. [PS3] Yoru no Nai Kuni # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥7.344) - 10.416 / NEW 

02./00. [PS4] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥7.344) - 30.759 / NEW 
03./00. [PSV] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥6.264) - 25.805 / NEW 
13./00. [PS3] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥7.344) - 11.542 / NEW 

(Eventually the Vita versions sold slightly more than PS4 in Japan):

754./137. [PSV] Nights of Azure # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥5.800) - 2.184 / 51.353 (-96%) (32.904 <84,75%>) 
772./140. [PS4] Nights of Azure # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.10.01} (¥6.800) - 2.041 / 50.188 (-96%) (35.907 <88,23%>) 

365./150. [PSV] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥5.800) - 9.858 / 55.426 (-78%) (25.805 <77,10%>) 
392./145. [PS4] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book # (Koei Tecmo) {2015.11.19} (¥6.800) - 8.545 / 55.438 (-82%) (30.759 <77,52%>) 

Of course, Switch will have higher western sales to fall back on like I mentioned previously which should be a helpful hand, but still. 

I agree, 50/50 PS4/Switch seems like a reasonnable goal in the long run. For now though, Vita is still a thing in Japan with decent userbase, I guess a 50/25/25 PS4/Vita/Switch would be decent for the time being.

Let's hope the next Atelier sales are good enough for us to have a better idea on the matter. When does it release ? I guess we can expect 80-100k LT overall ?