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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo was never doomed

On contrary, Nintendo is always doomed, even now with Switch. :)



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Insidb said:
Barkley said:

No it's not. It's 1.3m behind ps4 launch aligned.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=228581

This.

Welp, he might want to remove that part from his thread then. 



gentii said:

Nintendo is gonna beat their sales goals easily

It's beating PS4 launch period numbers in the slow summer while PS4 had a holiday launch, with a short supply. 

 

Nintendo is a monster that's brand value, market value, stock is worth more then the entire Sony company, not just Sony computer/PS brand.

Nintendo has no debt like Sony, 13 billion in cash and IP that's worth billions and they are growing.

 

The amiibos, pokemon company, smart phone games and theme parks only spell a monster rising again. 

 

Nintendo was never doomed.

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now, other way around, stock markets aren't a static thing. If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?



Turkish said:
gentii said:

Nintendo is gonna beat their sales goals easily

It's beating PS4 launch period numbers in the slow summer while PS4 had a holiday launch, with a short supply. 

 

Nintendo is a monster that's brand value, market value, stock is worth more then the entire Sony company, not just Sony computer/PS brand.

Nintendo has no debt like Sony, 13 billion in cash and IP that's worth billions and they are growing.

 

The amiibos, pokemon company, smart phone games and theme parks only spell a monster rising again. 

 

Nintendo was never doomed.

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now, other way around, stock markets aren't a static thing. If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?

"If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone"

 

How do you know this?



 

Helloplite said:

I thought you are supposed to provide meaningful analysis to back up your claims, no? I agree with you -- Nintendo has never been in real trouble -- but this is a completely needless topic to raise, almost feels like a flame war waiting to happen. Especially when you compared Nintendo to Sony. 

Sony has $16.82 billion (US dollars) in net cash, and over 161 billion USD in total assets. Nintendo does not even have 10% of that, standing currently at 11.87 billion USD of total assets. If this is meant to be a competition about which company has the healthiest assets, you are deluding yourself if you attempt to compare Nintendo to Sony and its numerous subsidiaries in a large variety of industries. 

Likewise, Nintendo's revenues have been steadily decreasing since at least 2013 (635.42 billion in 2013 versus 489.10 billion in 2017), and despite posting a profit finally this year, they are still a very long way from being where they used to be. If Switch proves unable to bring in sales that are comparable to 3DS and Wii U combined, Nintendo will in fact be generating even less revenue than before.

Of course Nintendo is not doomed. It has never been. They are the creators of beloved games, and true masterpieces. In many ways, Nintendo is the pioneer and the archetype of the videogames industry.

But if your point is that Nintendo is not doomed, and that this is somehow a victory over Sony, then this is a really ridiculous stance to take. Comparing stock values is a red herring, and while you are technically correct that Nintendo does not possess any debt, they do have other liabilities amounting to over 1.6 billion USD -- double the amount from 2016.

Trying to present Nintendo's liability as a negative is pretty weird.  1.6 billion $ in liabilities is really low compared to 13 billionish in assets.  Furthermore, their liabilities did not double from 2016.  And, 2016 just happened to be an exceptionally low year in terms of liabilities (down about 50 billion from the year before).  Even if it was an increase from 2016, it's in line with their typical amount of liabilities, and in a year where they're launching a new console, that's not all that concerning.

The bottom line though is that their asset/liabilitiy ratio is about 15% which is incredibly healthy.  If anything, you could argue they're playing it too safe and should be spending more aggressively for more growth.  This ratio is lower than Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, and any other company I thought to look at.

You seem to be changing comparisons from absolute numbers when talking about assets, and then suddenly to YOY when talking about Nintendo's liabilities. In terms of absolute numbers, Sony's liabilities increased by almost a trillion yen, or 9.1 billion dollars as opposed to about 750 million dollars (82 billion yen) for Nintendo.  Nintendo's 82 billion yen liabilitiy increase is offset by a 170 billion yen increase in assets.  Sony's increase in assets and liabilities basically cancel eachother out. 

Speaking of Sony, you completely ignored their liabilities.  So, yes their assets are more than 10x Nintendo's, but that number doesn't mean much in a vacuum.  Their liabilities are considerably higher, at a little over 80% of their current assets.  Which is definitely on the high end.  So while they have 160 billion dollars in assets, you have to factor in the 130 billion in liabilities.  With that said, they have about 30 billion dollars in excess of their liabilities, compared to Nintendo which has around 10 billion.

By the way, a signficant portion of Sony's assets (about 10 billion dollars) are intangible.   they have 5 billion dollars in good will for instance.  In contrast, Nintendo only lists about 100 million in intangible assets, which seems to be vastly lowballing themselves.  The value of their IPs, name recognition, and goodwill has to be more than that, so this brings the real values of the comapnies a bit closer.  

Most of Sony's assets are long term assets (about 120 billion out of that 160 I think) whereas most of Nintendo's assets are short term.  Nintendo is far more able to access cash short term, especially when you consider that Sony's short term liabilities eclipse their short term assets while Nintendo's short term liabilities are a blip on the radar.

Nintendo crushes Sony in terms of both liquidity and solvency.  Over the past decade, I'm almost positive Nintendo has higher profits by a wide margin.  Of the measures typically used to measure a company's health, the only place Sony might win is in operating income.  

Simply put, Nintendo is way healthier than Sony.  It's hard to imagine them even burning through their short term assets in less than 2 decades, even with a string of Wii U level failures.   But a few years as bad as 2011/2012 could really have Sony struggling with their creditors. 



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Who said Nintendo is DOOMED????? oh wait.... yeah that is a lot of people



 

You'd be hard pressed to say Nintendo is ever doomed for all the reasons you stated and more, but they do seem to be going through more and more bad phases with their hardware since the 2000, to deny just how dire the competitiveness of Nintendo through Gen6 and Gen8 was can be an issue, particularly if their means of addressing any long term concerns is by continuously gimmicking their systems out, which doesn't always hit, ala WiiU. With portable platforms on the decrease as well, I wonder how long the Switch will last on it's current success.

There could be a time in the not to distant future where Nintendo become solely publishers of their IP's, not in the sorry way it happened to Sega, I imagine were it to happen for Nintendo it would be on their terms.



Playstation gaming for 18 years this 2012


Turkish said:

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?

I'm pretty sure they are .. correct me if i'm wrong though. Also to be honest, a lot of Sony fans can be dicks regarding Nintendo's success. A lot of people were straight up hoping the Switch would fail before it's launch. It doesn't help that everyone who's correcting him in this thread, you included, are using very argumentative or aggressive attitudes toward it. "Your entire thread has everything wrong, which Sony fan angered you?" - Not surprising why some Nintendo fans are still defensive.

Still, I agree with you when you put attitude aside. I'm seriously getting tired of Nintendo fans making threads that are replies to stuff said back in January. Yes, we get it, everybody was wrong about the Switch(except me lol). We're not mind readers, sorry that as some put some people said Nintendo are doomed. You don't have to defend them 7-6 months after the fact. 

Besides, this is all semantics. I don't think most people, ESPECIALLY on this site, thought that Nintendo would exit the console market after Switch "flopping", or that Nintendo would be bankrupt. When people say "Nintendo is doomed" it's more like a saying you use to summarize what Nintendo's status is, and honestly Nintendo has been almost "doomed" for two generations(6th and 8th)



Yes they were. Don't act like this was 10 years ago. We were just coming from the Wii U a couple months ago. They're just lucky the Switch worked out. Everyone was crossing everything they had hoping it would be a success.



"Doomed" is a pretty strong sentiment ... I think that this community can be a little dramatic at times =p I mean, in the real corporate world, an event like "the Wii U era" for Nintendo is a blip in a long term investment cycle. Investment in Sony was plowing ahead, despite back-to-back quarterly losses for the whole company for a while there.

"Doomed" is reserved for companies that do not innovate and are stuck in the old ways, ala Blockbuster, Yahoo, or others. Nintendo may do some odd innovations at times, but they are at least entering the ring. So does Sony, which is also why investors have stuck with them for so long.