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Nintendo was never doomed

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COKTOE said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintnedo doesn't take the financial risk that Sony does. If Sony made their consoles gradually lower in power they would make profit as soon as the console launches even if they lost. Nintnedo definitely plays it smart and more conservatively when it comes to expenses and that leads quicker profits and savings.

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look it up at the moment, but wasn't Sony making a profit on PS4 hardware shortly after launch? Or maybe within a year at the worst?

Yes, but that is rare. Sony since the first PlayStation, to keep with the conventional media times have usually sold their consoles at a loss and the same goes for Microsoft. They gradually gain profit over time. Of course I am sure this gen they are both selling their consoles at a profit. The Xbox one x is not launching at a profit ... its essentially at cost, so it's more of the same. I don't find it wise to have a console that isn't profitable at mid gen.im guessing at the current state based on parts Sony is making a profit on the pro as well as the ps4.



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On contrary, Nintendo is always doomed, even now with Switch. :)



Insidb said:
Barkley said:

No it's not. It's 1.3m behind ps4 launch aligned.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=228581

This.

Welp, he might want to remove that part from his thread then. 



Technically speaking, they've always been doomed. No company is immortal after all



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

gentii said:

Nintendo is gonna beat their sales goals easily

It's beating PS4 launch period numbers in the slow summer while PS4 had a holiday launch, with a short supply. 

 

Nintendo is a monster that's brand value, market value, stock is worth more then the entire Sony company, not just Sony computer/PS brand.

Nintendo has no debt like Sony, 13 billion in cash and IP that's worth billions and they are growing.

 

The amiibos, pokemon company, smart phone games and theme parks only spell a monster rising again. 

 

Nintendo was never doomed.

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now, other way around, stock markets aren't a static thing. If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?



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Turkish said:
gentii said:

Nintendo is gonna beat their sales goals easily

It's beating PS4 launch period numbers in the slow summer while PS4 had a holiday launch, with a short supply. 

 

Nintendo is a monster that's brand value, market value, stock is worth more then the entire Sony company, not just Sony computer/PS brand.

Nintendo has no debt like Sony, 13 billion in cash and IP that's worth billions and they are growing.

 

The amiibos, pokemon company, smart phone games and theme parks only spell a monster rising again. 

 

Nintendo was never doomed.

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now, other way around, stock markets aren't a static thing. If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?

"If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone"

 

How do you know this?



 

Helloplite said:

I thought you are supposed to provide meaningful analysis to back up your claims, no? I agree with you -- Nintendo has never been in real trouble -- but this is a completely needless topic to raise, almost feels like a flame war waiting to happen. Especially when you compared Nintendo to Sony. 

Sony has $16.82 billion (US dollars) in net cash, and over 161 billion USD in total assets. Nintendo does not even have 10% of that, standing currently at 11.87 billion USD of total assets. If this is meant to be a competition about which company has the healthiest assets, you are deluding yourself if you attempt to compare Nintendo to Sony and its numerous subsidiaries in a large variety of industries. 

Likewise, Nintendo's revenues have been steadily decreasing since at least 2013 (635.42 billion in 2013 versus 489.10 billion in 2017), and despite posting a profit finally this year, they are still a very long way from being where they used to be. If Switch proves unable to bring in sales that are comparable to 3DS and Wii U combined, Nintendo will in fact be generating even less revenue than before.

Of course Nintendo is not doomed. It has never been. They are the creators of beloved games, and true masterpieces. In many ways, Nintendo is the pioneer and the archetype of the videogames industry.

But if your point is that Nintendo is not doomed, and that this is somehow a victory over Sony, then this is a really ridiculous stance to take. Comparing stock values is a red herring, and while you are technically correct that Nintendo does not possess any debt, they do have other liabilities amounting to over 1.6 billion USD -- double the amount from 2016.

Trying to present Nintendo's liability as a negative is pretty weird.  1.6 billion $ in liabilities is really low compared to 13 billionish in assets.  Furthermore, their liabilities did not double from 2016.  And, 2016 just happened to be an exceptionally low year in terms of liabilities (down about 50 billion from the year before).  Even if it was an increase from 2016, it's in line with their typical amount of liabilities, and in a year where they're launching a new console, that's not all that concerning.

The bottom line though is that their asset/liabilitiy ratio is about 15% which is incredibly healthy.  If anything, you could argue they're playing it too safe and should be spending more aggressively for more growth.  This ratio is lower than Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, and any other company I thought to look at.

You seem to be changing comparisons from absolute numbers when talking about assets, and then suddenly to YOY when talking about Nintendo's liabilities. In terms of absolute numbers, Sony's liabilities increased by almost a trillion yen, or 9.1 billion dollars as opposed to about 750 million dollars (82 billion yen) for Nintendo.  Nintendo's 82 billion yen liabilitiy increase is offset by a 170 billion yen increase in assets.  Sony's increase in assets and liabilities basically cancel eachother out. 

Speaking of Sony, you completely ignored their liabilities.  So, yes their assets are more than 10x Nintendo's, but that number doesn't mean much in a vacuum.  Their liabilities are considerably higher, at a little over 80% of their current assets.  Which is definitely on the high end.  So while they have 160 billion dollars in assets, you have to factor in the 130 billion in liabilities.  With that said, they have about 30 billion dollars in excess of their liabilities, compared to Nintendo which has around 10 billion.

By the way, a signficant portion of Sony's assets (about 10 billion dollars) are intangible.   they have 5 billion dollars in good will for instance.  In contrast, Nintendo only lists about 100 million in intangible assets, which seems to be vastly lowballing themselves.  The value of their IPs, name recognition, and goodwill has to be more than that, so this brings the real values of the comapnies a bit closer.  

Most of Sony's assets are long term assets (about 120 billion out of that 160 I think) whereas most of Nintendo's assets are short term.  Nintendo is far more able to access cash short term, especially when you consider that Sony's short term liabilities eclipse their short term assets while Nintendo's short term liabilities are a blip on the radar.

Nintendo crushes Sony in terms of both liquidity and solvency.  Over the past decade, I'm almost positive Nintendo has higher profits by a wide margin.  Of the measures typically used to measure a company's health, the only place Sony might win is in operating income.  

Simply put, Nintendo is way healthier than Sony.  It's hard to imagine them even burning through their short term assets in less than 2 decades, even with a string of Wii U level failures.   But a few years as bad as 2011/2012 could really have Sony struggling with their creditors. 



You know the thread will be good when it starts with a lie.
Then you get the confirmation when the subject moves entirely towards fanboysm.

Not dissapointed, thanks.



Who said Nintendo is DOOMED????? oh wait.... yeah that is a lot of people



 

You'd be hard pressed to say Nintendo is ever doomed for all the reasons you stated and more, but they do seem to be going through more and more bad phases with their hardware since the 2000, to deny just how dire the competitiveness of Nintendo through Gen6 and Gen8 was can be an issue, particularly if their means of addressing any long term concerns is by continuously gimmicking their systems out, which doesn't always hit, ala WiiU. With portable platforms on the decrease as well, I wonder how long the Switch will last on it's current success.

There could be a time in the not to distant future where Nintendo become solely publishers of their IP's, not in the sorry way it happened to Sega, I imagine were it to happen for Nintendo it would be on their terms.



Playstation gaming for 18 years this 2012