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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What games will MS market with XboneX now that Crackdown 3 is delayed?

Tulipanzo said:

Since you've been shown thath the marketing has been different, now you move on to saying that "actually, the message was the same".
However, you this "message" (again, what you showed was more akin to a feature list) still has to be marketed to people, that's how it works.

Assuming, that the messaging was identical, which is disputable, Microsoft still showcased the xboxx way more prominently at its biggests events than Sony ever did with the Pro.
If you have a better explanation as to why S sales have gone down, then please show it.
At this stage you've essentially argued that since both the Pro and the X have similar features, that it wouldn't be possible to market them differently, which is plain silly.

 

As for your second point, you are basing your argument on what the next gen might end up costing compared to this refresh, something neither you nor I could have any way to know.
I'd argue that since the PlayStation and Nintendo brand are more valuable worldwide, and since every mid-gen upgrade (the Pro, the New 3DS) has sold at a lower rate than the base hardware, that it would stand to reason than a PS5 or a Switch 2 would immediately be more successful than the X.

I also find it odd how you say that the X is not a next-gen console at one point, to then move on to say that it's going to be.
It seems to me that you expect Microsoft to launch an xboxxx which plays better version of xboxx games vs. a PS5 which plays PS5 games, not better versions of Pro games.
I really don't see it happening, for the reasons stated above, but I'll add: consumers like clarity.
If Sony and Nintendo come out with a next-gen people are going to buy it over another xbox upgrade. That could change, but they really don't seem in the position to push for it.

Still, this is all speculation. As things stand, Microsoft has to make a killing on the X, because the S isn't cutting it. 

MS isn't going to make a killing on the X1X because it's not priced to do so.  We can just throw that out the window.  Its not designed marketed or even implied that it will sell in that type of volumn.

As for what will sell and not sell as far as next gen, without knowning anything on games, hardware, features we can speculate all day long but if your prediction was true then the WiiU and PS3 would have been run away success if each company hand only to just make a console and people would buy it.



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they are just hoping that multiplats will save them



Machiavellian said:
Tulipanzo said:

Since you've been shown thath the marketing has been different, now you move on to saying that "actually, the message was the same".
However, you this "message" (again, what you showed was more akin to a feature list) still has to be marketed to people, that's how it works.

Assuming, that the messaging was identical, which is disputable, Microsoft still showcased the xboxx way more prominently at its biggests events than Sony ever did with the Pro.
If you have a better explanation as to why S sales have gone down, then please show it.
At this stage you've essentially argued that since both the Pro and the X have similar features, that it wouldn't be possible to market them differently, which is plain silly.

 

As for your second point, you are basing your argument on what the next gen might end up costing compared to this refresh, something neither you nor I could have any way to know.
I'd argue that since the PlayStation and Nintendo brand are more valuable worldwide, and since every mid-gen upgrade (the Pro, the New 3DS) has sold at a lower rate than the base hardware, that it would stand to reason than a PS5 or a Switch 2 would immediately be more successful than the X.

I also find it odd how you say that the X is not a next-gen console at one point, to then move on to say that it's going to be.
It seems to me that you expect Microsoft to launch an xboxxx which plays better version of xboxx games vs. a PS5 which plays PS5 games, not better versions of Pro games.
I really don't see it happening, for the reasons stated above, but I'll add: consumers like clarity.
If Sony and Nintendo come out with a next-gen people are going to buy it over another xbox upgrade. That could change, but they really don't seem in the position to push for it.

Still, this is all speculation. As things stand, Microsoft has to make a killing on the X, because the S isn't cutting it. 

MS isn't going to make a killing on the X1X because it's not priced to do so.  We can just throw that out the window.  Its not designed marketed or even implied that it will sell in that type of volumn.

As for what will sell and not sell as far as next gen, without knowning anything on games, hardware, features we can speculate all day long but if your prediction was true then the WiiU and PS3 would have been run away success if each company hand only to just make a console and people would buy it.

This is a discussion on what Microsoft can do to market the X now that CrackDown is a no show, and your solution is: nothing.
I think that's quite underwhelming, especially after tanking the S sales.
Your whole point seems to be making some pre-emptive damage control for low future sales.

It's interesting that you bring up the PS3 and WiiU, because those two consoles were also affected by a bungled value/price.
The PS3 price had to be lowered, but it ended up outselling the XBox 360. People wanted a new PlayStation, they just were willing to pay so much.
The WiiU never quite went down in price, but its release line-up remain sparce, something the Switch was eager to fix.

The X is launching with no game to call its own, at a higher price point than anyone else on the market, and with far less brand recognition than either Sony or Nintendo.
I can't see this ending up well.



Tulipanzo said:
Machiavellian said:

MS isn't going to make a killing on the X1X because it's not priced to do so.  We can just throw that out the window.  Its not designed marketed or even implied that it will sell in that type of volumn.

As for what will sell and not sell as far as next gen, without knowning anything on games, hardware, features we can speculate all day long but if your prediction was true then the WiiU and PS3 would have been run away success if each company hand only to just make a console and people would buy it.

This is a discussion on what Microsoft can do to market the X now that CrackDown is a no show, and your solution is: nothing.
I think that's quite underwhelming, especially after tanking the S sales.
Your whole point seems to be making some pre-emptive damage control for low future sales.

It's interesting that you bring up the PS3 and WiiU, because those two consoles were also affected by a bungled value/price.
The PS3 price had to be lowered, but it ended up outselling the XBox 360. People wanted a new PlayStation, they just were willing to pay so much.
The WiiU never quite went down in price, but its release line-up remain sparce, something the Switch was eager to fix.

The X is launching with no game to call its own, at a higher price point than anyone else on the market, and with far less brand recognition than either Sony or Nintendo.
I can't see this ending up well.

I bring up the WiiU and PS3 because corporations no matter how long being in the market can make mistakes.  They can guess or decide what the market wants or what the market will bare and fail.  The X1 was MS chance to solidify themselves in the market and they made the same mistake.  Next gen will be a chance for everyone to do it all over again.

The X1X is not the console you want it to be.  It's just a hardware refresh not a new system to the market.  It will not or was it ever thought to be the console to change MS position in the market at this time.   You can make these predictions when MS bring in their next gen system to market along with Sony.  The reason you cannot see things ending up well is because your expectations is off.  For some reason you believe MS has to sell the X1X like its a mainstream console buts its not.  Its not priced as a mainstream console and it comes to late in this gen to make that kind of impact.  Take the console for what it is, a high price Premium system for people who have money, enjoy MS ecosystem and want the system that will play 3rd party and MS games at their best.  Thats pretty much it.  It will not bring over any Sony fans unless they were already MS fans and was looking for a system to spend their holiday money on.



Machiavellian said:
Tulipanzo said:

This is a discussion on what Microsoft can do to market the X now that CrackDown is a no show, and your solution is: nothing.
I think that's quite underwhelming, especially after tanking the S sales.
Your whole point seems to be making some pre-emptive damage control for low future sales.

It's interesting that you bring up the PS3 and WiiU, because those two consoles were also affected by a bungled value/price.
The PS3 price had to be lowered, but it ended up outselling the XBox 360. People wanted a new PlayStation, they just were willing to pay so much.
The WiiU never quite went down in price, but its release line-up remain sparce, something the Switch was eager to fix.

The X is launching with no game to call its own, at a higher price point than anyone else on the market, and with far less brand recognition than either Sony or Nintendo.
I can't see this ending up well.

I bring up the WiiU and PS3 because corporations no matter how long being in the market can make mistakes.  They can guess or decide what the market wants or what the market will bare and fail.  The X1 was MS chance to solidify themselves in the market and they made the same mistake.  Next gen will be a chance for everyone to do it all over again.

The X1X is not the console you want it to be.  It's just a hardware refresh not a new system to the market.  It will not or was it ever thought to be the console to change MS position in the market at this time.   You can make these predictions when MS bring in their next gen system to market along with Sony.  The reason you cannot see things ending up well is because your expectations is off.  For some reason you believe MS has to sell the X1X like its a mainstream console buts its not.  Its not priced as a mainstream console and it comes to late in this gen to make that kind of impact.  Take the console for what it is, a high price Premium system for people who have money, enjoy MS ecosystem and want the system that will play 3rd party and MS games at their best.  Thats pretty much it.  It will not bring over any Sony fans unless they were already MS fans and was looking for a system to spend their holiday money on.

Except MS said they want to end the notion of generation.. so either you can consider X1X a new gen or that the next xbox won't be next gen, you decide. But they are going to a model where next xbox will play the same as x1x



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

I bring up the WiiU and PS3 because corporations no matter how long being in the market can make mistakes.  They can guess or decide what the market wants or what the market will bare and fail.  The X1 was MS chance to solidify themselves in the market and they made the same mistake.  Next gen will be a chance for everyone to do it all over again.

The X1X is not the console you want it to be.  It's just a hardware refresh not a new system to the market.  It will not or was it ever thought to be the console to change MS position in the market at this time.   You can make these predictions when MS bring in their next gen system to market along with Sony.  The reason you cannot see things ending up well is because your expectations is off.  For some reason you believe MS has to sell the X1X like its a mainstream console buts its not.  Its not priced as a mainstream console and it comes to late in this gen to make that kind of impact.  Take the console for what it is, a high price Premium system for people who have money, enjoy MS ecosystem and want the system that will play 3rd party and MS games at their best.  Thats pretty much it.  It will not bring over any Sony fans unless they were already MS fans and was looking for a system to spend their holiday money on.

Except MS said they want to end the notion of generation.. so either you can consider X1X a new gen or that the next xbox won't be next gen, you decide. But they are going to a model where next xbox will play the same as x1x

Yes, this will end the notion of generations but only for MS.  Like I said, when Sony comes out with their PS5 MS will also come out with the next iteration of the X1.  If the only difference between the PS5 and new Xbox is 3 to 4X over the current mid gen, then guess what, the mid gen becomes the low end and the new consoles the high end.  By that time the X1X may look pretty attractive at a 200 price point while the new systems probably go for 400+.  Either way, it should be interesting to see how mid gen consoles play out between both Sony and MS.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Except MS said they want to end the notion of generation.. so either you can consider X1X a new gen or that the next xbox won't be next gen, you decide. But they are going to a model where next xbox will play the same as x1x

Yes, this will end the notion of generations but only for MS.  Like I said, when Sony comes out with their PS5 MS will also come out with the next iteration of the X1.  If the only difference between the PS5 and new Xbox is 3 to 4X over the current mid gen, then guess what, the mid gen becomes the low end and the new consoles the high end.  By that time the X1X may look pretty attractive at a 200 price point while the new systems probably go for 400+.  Either way, it should be interesting to see how mid gen consoles play out between both Sony and MS.

You aren't making much sense on putting that they aren't making this console as their new gen, but when a not new gen from then comes this will become the baseline of the not new gen.

You can't have both sides at once just to prevent any argument.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Machiavellian said:

I bring up the WiiU and PS3 because corporations no matter how long being in the market can make mistakes.  They can guess or decide what the market wants or what the market will bare and fail.  The X1 was MS chance to solidify themselves in the market and they made the same mistake.  Next gen will be a chance for everyone to do it all over again.

The X1X is not the console you want it to be.  It's just a hardware refresh not a new system to the market.  It will not or was it ever thought to be the console to change MS position in the market at this time.   You can make these predictions when MS bring in their next gen system to market along with Sony.  The reason you cannot see things ending up well is because your expectations is off.  For some reason you believe MS has to sell the X1X like its a mainstream console buts its not.  Its not priced as a mainstream console and it comes to late in this gen to make that kind of impact.  Take the console for what it is, a high price Premium system for people who have money, enjoy MS ecosystem and want the system that will play 3rd party and MS games at their best.  Thats pretty much it.  It will not bring over any Sony fans unless they were already MS fans and was looking for a system to spend their holiday money on.

Except, you didn't! You brought up the PS3 and WiiU to supposedly shoot me down for saying that full fledged successor sell better than stop gap solutions.
You did this while wilfully ignoring that the PS3 actually beat the 360 in sales.
If you want to make a point, fine, but don't try and change what you said after the fact.

As per your second point: this isn't a discussion about whether or not either of us likes the concept of the xboxx; that is irrelevant.
I've been saying this since the beginning: MS aggressive marketing for the X lead to the sales for the S tanking, meaning they now need the X to pick up the pace. I find that unlikely, due to pricing, lack of titles and them appealing exclusively to their core audience while ignoring everyone else.
These are points you yourself make: it's not a mainstream console, but it needs to be since the S tanked.

My "predictions" they came in direct response to your ramblings about how the X might be in an advantageous position next-gen; a guess, since you provided no data or trends to support it.
The XBox brand is unbelievably unpopular in most countries, and it's laughable to think people would ever opt for it instead of anything from Sony or Nintendo. I don't see how a system that's "not for the mainstream" would ever change that.

What you're trying to do is to retroactively justify MS poor strategy because you happen to like the X.
I suggest you take your poor excuses and take it to a different topic.



Tulipanzo said:
Machiavellian said:

I bring up the WiiU and PS3 because corporations no matter how long being in the market can make mistakes.  They can guess or decide what the market wants or what the market will bare and fail.  The X1 was MS chance to solidify themselves in the market and they made the same mistake.  Next gen will be a chance for everyone to do it all over again.

The X1X is not the console you want it to be.  It's just a hardware refresh not a new system to the market.  It will not or was it ever thought to be the console to change MS position in the market at this time.   You can make these predictions when MS bring in their next gen system to market along with Sony.  The reason you cannot see things ending up well is because your expectations is off.  For some reason you believe MS has to sell the X1X like its a mainstream console buts its not.  Its not priced as a mainstream console and it comes to late in this gen to make that kind of impact.  Take the console for what it is, a high price Premium system for people who have money, enjoy MS ecosystem and want the system that will play 3rd party and MS games at their best.  Thats pretty much it.  It will not bring over any Sony fans unless they were already MS fans and was looking for a system to spend their holiday money on.

Except, you didn't! You brought up the PS3 and WiiU to supposedly shoot me down for saying that full fledged successor sell better than stop gap solutions.
You did this while wilfully ignoring that the PS3 actually beat the 360 in sales.
If you want to make a point, fine, but don't try and change what you said after the fact.

As per your second point: this isn't a discussion about whether or not either of us likes the concept of the xboxx; that is irrelevant.
I've been saying this since the beginning: MS aggressive marketing for the X lead to the sales for the S tanking, meaning they now need the X to pick up the pace. I find that unlikely, due to pricing, lack of titles and them appealing exclusively to their core audience while ignoring everyone else.
These are points you yourself make: it's not a mainstream console, but it needs to be since the S tanked.

My "predictions" they came in direct response to your ramblings about how the X might be in an advantageous position next-gen; a guess, since you provided no data or trends to support it.
The XBox brand is unbelievably unpopular in most countries, and it's laughable to think people would ever opt for it instead of anything from Sony or Nintendo. I don't see how a system that's "not for the mainstream" would ever change that.

What you're trying to do is to retroactively justify MS poor strategy because you happen to like the X.
I suggest you take your poor excuses and take it to a different topic.

But the S didn't tank really. They are a little bit down YoY compared to 2016 but last summer they've got some insane pricecuts even selling original Xbone for 200$ just to clear the stock for the S. With X release I can even see them ending this year up YoY. Xbox sells very bad in the first half of the year. It's a simple rule for this gen.



 

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

Yes, this will end the notion of generations but only for MS.  Like I said, when Sony comes out with their PS5 MS will also come out with the next iteration of the X1.  If the only difference between the PS5 and new Xbox is 3 to 4X over the current mid gen, then guess what, the mid gen becomes the low end and the new consoles the high end.  By that time the X1X may look pretty attractive at a 200 price point while the new systems probably go for 400+.  Either way, it should be interesting to see how mid gen consoles play out between both Sony and MS.

You aren't making much sense on putting that they aren't making this console as their new gen, but when a not new gen from then comes this will become the baseline of the not new gen.

You can't have both sides at once just to prevent any argument.

How does it not make sense.  Lets use graphics cards as an analogy.  When the latest graphics card comes out at 500 bones or more, its not priced for the mainstream.  When the next latest card comes out priced at 500 bones, the last iteration drops price.  Usually by that time those cards drop to the 200 price range or better and become consumer darlings.  You even have High End, Mid and low end cards for people looking for different levels of performance.  

If consoles are pretty much going the same way, how does that situation not pan out the same way.  No generations mean your old console also can play your new console games.  Its not the same case where you go from a PS2 to a PS3 and the PS3 is a new system with new games that only play on the PS3 and it cannot play PS2 games.  It seems you are still looking at a new console as a totally isolated system like the old days but MS already stated they want their system forward and backward compatible.   So whan the PS5 hit, it may or may not be forward and backward compatible with the PS4, for MS their next system will be.  This may or may not be an advantage for MS if things pan out this way but we will see what the market bares when it happens.