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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What games will MS market with XboneX now that Crackdown 3 is delayed?

Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope it doesn't... you say MS is doing the same message as Sony.

Sony is saying they are putting a improved version of PS4 that will do the same just a little better.

MS is implying that X1X is going to play what came before and what will come after.

There is really no point in having let's say a console that sell 100k with another doing 20k per week globally to wait and make it sell 100k 3 years later when it's less expensive to make and the new console releases. That isn't even how it works.

Consoles get cheaper because they gain scale to dilute cost, improved experience as production goes by and being the most used technology at the time. X1X is using the base of what is inside X1 already but powered up. By 2020 or 2021 when we suppose X1XX comes by the technology on X1X won't be standard anymore so they will lose a big part of cost saving due to use standard parts.

Also the common curve on console sales will probably make the X1X not ever take off.

Because face it, when PS5 comes by and perhaps it plays PS4 games, but not the other way, people will need and want to buy PS5. At the same time you'll have X1X as very inferior to PS5 and let's say X1XX on par. Who will really go and buy the 3 year old inferior HW for the current gen when there is the current one? And worse yet, X1XX will be bond to X1X.

What is really made to sell is the baseline of the system. X360 sold less arcade and elite versions than it sold of the standard edition. People doesn't really want barebone or over the top.

I said MS is doing the same message for the X1X.  Its a mid gen console, it has no exclusive games, it plays exactly same games as the X1, its made for people with 4K displays.  Are those not the same message both Sony and MS has stated for Mid gen consoles.

Now if you are talking about the future of the eco system then Yes, MS created the X1X forward and backward compatible.  Their next console based on what MS has stated should also be forward and Backward compatible but then again they have made no announcement on that yet so we can Only Assume.

At bolded.  I have no clue what you are talking about.  Who knows where the X1X will be by the time the next system drops for MS.  Also why are you assuming MS would look at their eco system the way you are looking at it.  If anything they will look at install bases including all systems.  From Xs, X1X and whatever new system comes out.  Why would MS not think that in 3 years, the X1X is not selling better when it's price drops and it continue to be the dominate console when it comes to performance etc.

By your second point then the PS2 must have been killing Sony in price and parts because its part were not main stream when the PS3 came along.  Is that the same case between Nvidia and AMD when they bring out a new card, the older cards must be costing them more money to sell at a reduced price.  Now if something does not make sense, that part does not.  Its not like this is something new in the industry, its only new for consoles.

As to who will spend money on the inferior 3 year old system when the next iteration comes out, probably the same people who are purchasing a PS4 instead of the Pro or an X1 instead of the X1X.  It really will depend on the separation the next iteation has over the mid gen.  As I stated, if they all still play the same games then price becomes a big incentive.

You can't say it's the same message that is the point. If PS4Pro is a console to play better version of PS4 and just it, but X1X is a console to play better versions of Xog, X360, X1 and also future inferior versions of X1XX them the message is still different. Also X1X will have VR as exclusive point, and MS have tipped in and out of allowing games to play only on X1X without X1 support.

So PS4Pro being a midgen refresh is different than X1X being a generationless system. And the main reason why X1X can't even talk about exclusives against X1 is that MS isn't even making exclusives themselves at all (besides its quasi-yearly franchises) and also put their games on PC.

Yes you have a clue. All systems have a sales curve, and there have been no case of very very slow start becoming the main leader of any gen.

PS2 was selling buckloads all the way to the end of its life so it's quite different than X1X that will probably not sell at any point what PS2 was selling in its end of life, so when the technology is changed it will be even harder for X1X to keep the prices down. So I wouldn't put much hope in having a 200 USD X1X.

The difference between PS4Pro and PS4 is quite small, as will be X1X to X1. But when PS5 comes by there is no reason to believe X1X will be very close to it, or that it will be close to X1XX. Come again on how much is X360 selling?? 



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

I said MS is doing the same message for the X1X.  Its a mid gen console, it has no exclusive games, it plays exactly same games as the X1, its made for people with 4K displays.  Are those not the same message both Sony and MS has stated for Mid gen consoles.

Now if you are talking about the future of the eco system then Yes, MS created the X1X forward and backward compatible.  Their next console based on what MS has stated should also be forward and Backward compatible but then again they have made no announcement on that yet so we can Only Assume.

At bolded.  I have no clue what you are talking about.  Who knows where the X1X will be by the time the next system drops for MS.  Also why are you assuming MS would look at their eco system the way you are looking at it.  If anything they will look at install bases including all systems.  From Xs, X1X and whatever new system comes out.  Why would MS not think that in 3 years, the X1X is not selling better when it's price drops and it continue to be the dominate console when it comes to performance etc.

By your second point then the PS2 must have been killing Sony in price and parts because its part were not main stream when the PS3 came along.  Is that the same case between Nvidia and AMD when they bring out a new card, the older cards must be costing them more money to sell at a reduced price.  Now if something does not make sense, that part does not.  Its not like this is something new in the industry, its only new for consoles.

As to who will spend money on the inferior 3 year old system when the next iteration comes out, probably the same people who are purchasing a PS4 instead of the Pro or an X1 instead of the X1X.  It really will depend on the separation the next iteation has over the mid gen.  As I stated, if they all still play the same games then price becomes a big incentive.

You can't say it's the same message that is the point. If PS4Pro is a console to play better version of PS4 and just it, but X1X is a console to play better versions of Xog, X360, X1 and also future inferior versions of X1XX them the message is still different. Also X1X will have VR as exclusive point, and MS have tipped in and out of allowing games to play only on X1X without X1 support.

So PS4Pro being a midgen refresh is different than X1X being a generationless system. And the main reason why X1X can't even talk about exclusives against X1 is that MS isn't even making exclusives themselves at all (besides its quasi-yearly franchises) and also put their games on PC.

Yes you have a clue. All systems have a sales curve, and there have been no case of very very slow start becoming the main leader of any gen.

PS2 was selling buckloads all the way to the end of its life so it's quite different than X1X that will probably not sell at any point what PS2 was selling in its end of life, so when the technology is changed it will be even harder for X1X to keep the prices down. So I wouldn't put much hope in having a 200 USD X1X.

The difference between PS4Pro and PS4 is quite small, as will be X1X to X1. But when PS5 comes by there is no reason to believe X1X will be very close to it, or that it will be close to X1XX. Come again on how much is X360 selling?? 

Well, no need for another long reply, I clearly see things different as I do not believe the PS5 will be a generation leap over the X1X or that much more than the PS4 Pro.  As to how the market will change or not change, it really depends on execution.  We will see who's plan comes out on top but of course that will not happen for quite some time.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

You can't say it's the same message that is the point. If PS4Pro is a console to play better version of PS4 and just it, but X1X is a console to play better versions of Xog, X360, X1 and also future inferior versions of X1XX them the message is still different. Also X1X will have VR as exclusive point, and MS have tipped in and out of allowing games to play only on X1X without X1 support.

So PS4Pro being a midgen refresh is different than X1X being a generationless system. And the main reason why X1X can't even talk about exclusives against X1 is that MS isn't even making exclusives themselves at all (besides its quasi-yearly franchises) and also put their games on PC.

Yes you have a clue. All systems have a sales curve, and there have been no case of very very slow start becoming the main leader of any gen.

PS2 was selling buckloads all the way to the end of its life so it's quite different than X1X that will probably not sell at any point what PS2 was selling in its end of life, so when the technology is changed it will be even harder for X1X to keep the prices down. So I wouldn't put much hope in having a 200 USD X1X.

The difference between PS4Pro and PS4 is quite small, as will be X1X to X1. But when PS5 comes by there is no reason to believe X1X will be very close to it, or that it will be close to X1XX. Come again on how much is X360 selling?? 

Well, no need for another long reply, I clearly see things different as I do not believe the PS5 will be a generation leap over the X1X or that much more than the PS4 Pro.  As to how the market will change or not change, it really depends on execution.  We will see who's plan comes out on top but of course that will not happen for quite some time.

And why would Sony release a PS5 and reboot a gen it's winning in spades if not to have a gen leap? And don't come with PS4/X1 not being a leap because that is a very narrow view.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

Well, no need for another long reply, I clearly see things different as I do not believe the PS5 will be a generation leap over the X1X or that much more than the PS4 Pro.  As to how the market will change or not change, it really depends on execution.  We will see who's plan comes out on top but of course that will not happen for quite some time.

And why would Sony release a PS5 and reboot a gen it's winning in spades if not to have a gen leap? And don't come with PS4/X1 not being a leap because that is a very narrow view.

No I do not believe that the PS4 and X1 was a gen leap.  They are definitely more powerful but not to the same level PS1 to PS2.  The leap in performance does not seem as great as hardware becomes more mature.  How much of a leap you believe you will see between the PS4 Pro and the PS5 in 3 years or do you believe Sony will wait longer.



Tulipanzo said:
darkenergy said:

 

 

A reminder: Sony sold all the Pros they manifactured.

 

No they didn't, not even close to it.



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Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

And why would Sony release a PS5 and reboot a gen it's winning in spades if not to have a gen leap? And don't come with PS4/X1 not being a leap because that is a very narrow view.

No I do not believe that the PS4 and X1 was a gen leap.  They are definitely more powerful but not to the same level PS1 to PS2.  The leap in performance does not seem as great as hardware becomes more mature.  How much of a leap you believe you will see between the PS4 Pro and the PS5 in 3 years or do you believe Sony will wait longer.

the interval between PS5 to PS4Pro will be enough to have at least 3x power difference but I would say more in line with 6x.

That may not be enough to make a very big difference in pixel count, but IQ and framerate can be severely different.

Timeframe for that probably 4 years since Pro.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

cmay227 said:
Tulipanzo said:

 

A reminder: Sony sold all the Pros they manifactured.

 

No they didn't, not even close to it.

Yes, they are still selling basically all they manufactured, same with PS4. They aren't keeping high level inventory for PS4 and on case of Pro  they have some lack of production. Sony themselves admited the success was higher than expected and that demand have been outputing offering since launch.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
cmay227 said:

No they didn't, not even close to it.

Yes, they are still selling basically all they manufactured, same with PS4. They aren't keeping high level inventory for PS4 and on case of Pro  they have some lack of production. Sony themselves admited the success was higher than expected and that demand have been outputing offering since launch.

Thank you! I was about to post sources actually:

Here:
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/12/06/sony-ps4-pro-sales-is-selling-very-well-demand-is-larger-than-we-had-anticipated/
And here, more recently:
http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/playstation-is-winning-but-what-next-w485683

Sony highlights how the demand was larger than anticipated and hard to find or sold out.
My point was that this correlates to their more subdued marketing for it and the smaller role it plays in the PlayStation ecosystem.
So, please don't doubt posts without sources cmay227 



Tulipanzo said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes, they are still selling basically all they manufactured, same with PS4. They aren't keeping high level inventory for PS4 and on case of Pro  they have some lack of production. Sony themselves admited the success was higher than expected and that demand have been outputing offering since launch.

Thank you! I was about to post sources actually:

Here:
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/12/06/sony-ps4-pro-sales-is-selling-very-well-demand-is-larger-than-we-had-anticipated/
And here, more recently:
http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/playstation-is-winning-but-what-next-w485683

Sony highlights how the demand was larger than anticipated and hard to find or sold out.
My point was that this correlates to their more subdued marketing for it and the smaller role it plays in the PlayStation ecosystem.
So, please don't doubt posts without sources cmay227 

It's funny that people on a sales forum doesn't keep up with sales news.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

No I do not believe that the PS4 and X1 was a gen leap.  They are definitely more powerful but not to the same level PS1 to PS2.  The leap in performance does not seem as great as hardware becomes more mature.  How much of a leap you believe you will see between the PS4 Pro and the PS5 in 3 years or do you believe Sony will wait longer.

the interval between PS5 to PS4Pro will be enough to have at least 3x power difference but I would say more in line with 6x.

That may not be enough to make a very big difference in pixel count, but IQ and framerate can be severely different.

Timeframe for that probably 4 years since Pro.

3X power difference is nothing and it's not a generation difference if the price is 400+ and the Pro is 200.  The Pro will be the mass market device and the PS5 will be the premium.  The only thing that will change this is if Sony make it so the PS5 has its own exclusive games and they look way better than what can be played on the Pro.