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Forums - General Discussion - When you achieve artistic nirvana.

ELO is also one of my favorite bands not quiet my favorite band from the 70s though that would be The Isley Brothers and the Eagles. Since a lot of ELO stuff was recorded there they should have been a lot more popular in my former home country Germany but I really didn't discover them until I moved to the US in 1988.



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If I had to guess, no, you have not achieved artistic nirvana.

I have had multiple steps in multiple mediums where I thought I had discovered the best thing ever, only to be blown away a few months or years later. And I don't think it's quite uncommon for that to happen either. You said you were a musician, so i'm just going to assume that you constantly look for new music or to broaden your perspective. But if you don't - then you obviously aren't going to find something better than ELO.

When I first listened to Coldplay I thought they were the best thing ever, then I thought that about Muse, then I thought that about Radiohead, then Opeth, then Pink Floyd, then Nine Inch Nails, then Modest Mouse, then Built to Spill, and now I'd say Modest Mouse and Built to Spill and Unwound are pretty much all on the same level. At least in music, it is pretty easy to constantly be blown away, especially when you consider that just through cultural reference alone you can probably get into other genres easily. 

Try getting into something experimental. Even if you don't like it at first, the more you listen to it the more you'll appreciate it. That way, even if it doesn't overtake ELO, it will still teach you some new values in music and give you a new appreciation.

Have you tried music like : Unwound - Leaves Turn Inside You, Songs Ohia - Ghost Tropic, Massive Attack - Mezzanine , Leonard Cohen - Songs of Love and Hate(ok not really experimental but come on it's tissue material!) etc. 

Games and movies are a bit harder because it requires more of a time investment, but I think there's like 99 other games this year competing for GOTY against BOTW, so maybe try one of those. Try to get more into movies if you want to find something more fulfilling than GoTG2.

Also FUCK productivity



I achieved artistic Nirvana once... and it smelled like Teen Spirit.



mZuzek said:

Not really. I'm actually 17 but anyways my evolution of taste took 4 years to come to this point. It didn't happen every time I listened to a new artist, it took a long time to find something I could say was "the best ever". Since you obviously love ELO, it will take a long time for you to find something better, or something of equal value. But that doesn't mean it won't happen and what you value in your music may even change over time. Besides, an age difference of 5 years is not going to be the be all end of all of experimentation. People experiment with ideals until arguably their mid 30's, and since it's easier to digest art I would argue that you won't be stuck in a routine until most likely your 50's. 

If you keep giving yourself artifical arbitrary restrictions like this then your mind will always believe them. If you always believe that nothing can beat x then you will try and find y. If you believe that x will not be replacable as your favorite, even with y sequel being announced, then you will probably be right(until you see y sequel maybe). You yourself admit to seeing a pattern of thinking "nothing can overcome this!" only to see something overcome it. Everyone thinks that they've reached an apex at some point, and having someone explain to you why you haven't reached that apex isn't going to convince you - digesting more art will.

The closest I ever got to the apex you described was with anime, in large part because I don't watch anime a lot so unlike with music I was not consistently being ultra wowed by the shows I watched. You might not be an anime fan but just stick with me here. I watched Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 for the first time and it literally blew me away. The large cast of characters that were amazingly written, the themes which were intricately woven together and all felt connected to one larger purpose, the relatable villains and flawed protagonists. It was all amazing to me. At this time I was starting to make new accounts for websites on the internet, and I decided to make a name that was a a reference to Fullmetal, and it's a name I stick by to this day. I will say that the anime I watched after that, Death Note, blew my socks off in a similar way, but years later I would largely forget any impact Death Note had on me while purchasing and worshiping Fullmetal Alchemist. I remember thinking "NOTHING WILL PASS FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST!" I even started to watch the remake anime series Brotherhood, and I hated it and dropped the show. Now I've not only found a piece of art that I love about as much (Neon Genesis), but I love the remake series of FMA equally to the original, and through literature class I even found a piece of art that practically gave Fullmetal Alchemist it's template (The original Frankenstein novel by Mary Shely, which is a lot more about mortality and science than horror). 

Your description of ELO sounds a lot like Talking Heads :P Isn't that kind of the same for just about any new wave or progessive band? It also suits post rock, and a lot of indie and alt rock bands. 

Anyways, you're right and it's cool that you've had this moment of perfection in your life. I love finding a lot of things at once that impact my life. I've felt this way before, but maybe not to your extent. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply replying because I think life would be depressing if you found the perfect thing and didn't find something better for the rest of your life.



I see things a bit differently in terms of favorites. I have trouble ranking to that degree. For example, I can say I prefer movie A to movie B or movie C but that doesn't mean movie A is my favorite. Once I get down to, say, a top 10, the lines begin to blur.

I can list out my favorite artists but not an absolute favorite, and can name my favorite songs or albums from each of those. After getting a short list, it's pretty dependent on my mood.

Games are the same, I have favorite series but not a favorite game. Actually, thinking on it now, even that gets weird. I can get just as much enjoyment out of playing Mario Party when compared to Pikmin. Yet, Pikmin is regarded as a series I'm highly fond of. (whilst Mario Party isn't)

With all of that in mind, I do believe things have a tendency to change. When I hear a new song for the very first time, at times, it can be a strange experience. It's kind of like, it makes my soul feel alive for lack of a better way to explain it. That feeling begins to dissipate over time though and while the song stays enjoyable, it's not as profound as before. I believe this to be true for most things.

As for the empty motivation? I've been through that for sure. I'm under the impression that most people either go through this or stay in it. I personally look at it as a major flaw in people. We get caught up in playing the consumer rather than creator. I write, and will say, I've come to the conclusion that creating can outweigh consuming. Not all the time but when you get it right, it feels amazing.



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mZuzek said:

I think just like with anything else, the preference on consuming vs. creating is also something that can change back and forth over time. In recent months I've been almost entirely on a consuming mood, but your post encouraged me to change that. One of my earlier albums is going to be 5 years old soon, and I need to have some experience with certain audio software, so I've decided to begin rewriting it (starting today) and hopefully I'll finish it in time for the anniversary.

As for enjoying things less over time, I don't really think it works that way for me. I know I can definitely be "burnt out" on things if I overdo them (see: beating A Link to the Past dozens of times), and then I might never enjoy them as much as I used to, but if I try to contain myself before re-experiencing something and only do it when I'm sure I really want to, I think that enjoyment can last forever. Obviously all of this can be pretty different for different forms of art - for example, when I think of games, usually the first time I play through them is my best experience, whereas I'd say for movies it's usually the second time. Music has a weirder pattern where it can change a lot but it usually only gets better and better up until the few dozens of times, and then it starts to get old. But it is as I said, if you control that over time things can last forever I think.

I agree, sometimes it's nice to just sit back and enjoy something. A balance is beneficial for sure. With that said, I'm glad you've made the decision to start work on your music again. Letting months go by without touching it much is probably going a bit too far on the consumer side. You won't regret it. I believe the key of success hangs on whether or not you greatly enjoy what you're working on. If you appreciate it and look forward to it, it becomes infinitely easier. 

I guess that's true. If I don't play/watch/listen to something for a while, rediscovering it can be highly enjoyable. It definitely depends on the type of art, agreed. As for it lasting forever? I can be keen on something forever, I'm just not sure it's capable of evoking the same feelings forever, if that makes sense. Of course, it's different for everybody.



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mZuzek said:

Well, to be honest I think nothing ever evokes the same feelings twice, art or otherwise. The real merit in question here is maybe not evoking the same feelings forever, but rather evoking strong feelings forever. Inevitably, re-experiencing any work of art will cause different feelings, but if said work is deep enough it'll remain great despite that.

Depth really is everything in the end. That's what it all comes down to.

That's actually an excellent way to put it. I guess it is about keeping strong feelings more so than the same feelings. Depth indeed matters a lot. Probably because if something contains depth it strikes many chords within a person. 



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