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Forums - Politics Discussion - White Supremacist Drives Car into Counter-Protesters (20 Injured, One Dead)

sundin13 said:

To me, the issue is a lot larger than any emboldening of radical individuals or groups (although it is dangerous and a bit hypocritical to use such soft language when denouncing white nationalists). I think the problem is that Trump drives people apart. Not just in an "antifa" vs "nazis" sense, but in a larger sense. America is becoming more divided and more partisan. 

This is a trend that has been happening for a while, so I don't think Trump should shoulder the blame, but I think this country has gotten to a place where this is quite possibly the biggest domestic issue facing our nation. We need a president who can bring us together and work to heal the partisan divide. Trump makes no attempt to work across the aisle, compromise or understand those with a perspective that differs from his own and he encourages his followers to do the same. The only conceivable way that Trump could be bringing people together is by making both the right and the left hate him, but all that really does in practice is fracture our country in another direction. 

I think it is silly to "blame" this on Trump, but I do think that this is a symptom of a divided nation that Trump has done little to address (and has arguably exacerbated). However, the weakness of his responses indicates an unwillingness to turn his back to extremist elements who do work to further divide our nation and an inability to lead us out of the difficulties that this country is facing.

coolbeans said:

That's WAY too charitable interpretation of the situation to be, funnily enough, considered apples and oranges.  You brought up the throughline of where words can lead to repulsive actions.  Dismantling a bill that was built to fail, hurt middle class families' premiums, and other terrible results =/= GOP committing a mass genocide against sick people.  It shouldn't be that hard to see a similar type of connective tissue when this kind of rhetoric is hurled over and over.  

1.) Anyone who committed violence was called out.

2.) If violent idiots think someone's supporting them after he just denounced violence all-around...then I don't see why their delusion should amount to much.

3.)  I can't say I really see Trump as potentially inflaming when considering the cultural background of all this:  AntiFa and natzee punching.  The people involved with riling up this knew violence would only beget more violence.

4.)  I do agree with it being uncharacteristic of his usual way of aggressive tweets and such, and still worthy of criticism.

Again, the comparison isn't untenable.

I don't agree that the GOP is committing mass genocide, but I also don't really think that conversation is relevant to this discussion... Sanders' rhetoric and Trump's rhetoric are fundamentally different. One is directly encouraging violence while the other is condemning (what he perceives as) immoral political acts.

Anyways, I don't really have much else to say. Trump has repeatedly endorsed violence against protestors. In this case, he made a weak condemnation that did nothing to actually demonstrate any ability to lead because someone died and he basically had to. That said, I posted my full comment on the subject above if you want the full context of my opinion outside of this one little microcosm of the debate. 

I don't have the time to reply to all of your comments but I believe Bernie Sanders said that Drumpf is a symptom not the disease that is plaguing America. How in the hell did Americans not vote for Bernie is beyond me



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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FIT_Gamer said:
sundin13 said:

"I have a black friend" is just about the worst excuse imaginable. 

Here's some propaganda from Vanguard America:

And here's the pic of him demonstrating with that group:

I litterally laughed out loud when I read that. 

I'm mixed race. I play in a billards league with two Aryan BH members. They've never gave me any shit. Doesn't make them any less racist. 

'Tha Joos' are what the illuminati are to Alex Jones, or what the patriarchy is to feminists. It's a good measure of someone's ability to delude themselves when they come up with a conspiracy theory to explain the worlds problems.



Valdney said:
Antifa and BLM thugs went there looking for some and they got some from ultra nationalists thugs. A clash of mobs, nothing else.

Not only was the death of the girl a tragedy, the fact that she was protesting for civil rights in 2017 was also a tragedy. When the right demagogues come along this kind of shit always happens.

The first sentence, I agree with. I'm opposed to what the white nationalists stand for, but I also respect they have a right to gather. Had opposing groups stayed away it would have likely been a peaceful event (i.e. no inuries or deaths.)

Civil right has come a long way and as far as I'm aware there is still progress being made in many countries. Nothing is ever accomplished when people of opposing sides bump heads on the street, but the media loves when it happens.



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Slimebeast said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Hail Hitler , hail trump was what slimebeast said when trump won elections, and got banned for it.

You're distorting facts a bit. Whether you do it on purpose or by accident I do not know.

I said "Heil, mein Führer", and while I can see that someone thinks it's tasteless, and a really sensitive person might truly take offense, anyone grounded in reality understands that it was a joke.

Besides, I don't see Trump as a good leader. I've always clearly pointed out that he is a very flawed person, and yet a symbol for a movement that is rising up against political correctness because we don't have anything better at the moment in American big politics. And electing Trump, even if he's a joke character, was necessary to achieve some kind of change.

With all respect you have clearly showed your dislike to some certain groups of people (you have the right to do it ofcourse) but I am not surprised people even expect you clearly hate some groups and then you say 'Heil' ofcourse nobody is going to expect it is a joke from you.

It is the same like Peter Cvjetanovic who was pointed out at Facebook that he was walking around the white 'Nationalist' group and said he was just walking around their until someone posted a picture from him that he cleary was not just standing their for fun but was active crying out slogans..




Now he is trying very hard to get the pics taken down but because it has become public domain his face will probably get posted printed everywhere when talking about that sad day.

Anyway I think this kind of thing is considered comedic

 

Well I am on a roll now...more sad but at the same time pics:


*Doing the nazi salute while wearing an 82th airborne division hat (they are the ones helping with the invasion of Normandy and basically stopping the nazi's)
Let's also not start with those people waving the confideration flag while shouting 'you lost get over it', I am a noob on the history of the USA but I am sure the confideration did not win.






I want to believe the OP is against hate.
All I see here is hate. Hate for America, hate of words, hate for individuals with different beliefs.
How is it okay to hate somethings and not others but feel like you are on the moral high ground?
The difference between me and the majority of the comments I have read here is that I don't cave into the rhetoric the same way. I don't have to "hate".
I see how people misconstrue the intentions of nationalist groups based on these abhorrent examples.

I could spend hours typing up pages of text defining the words meanings only so they can be overlooked and for people to think I condone the behavior.
In truth however in any riot situation my approach is quite simple and truly equal.
Catch all involved. As soon as a "peaceful protest" goes sour the individuals who start the riot should be eliminated. The individuals who have been found to start any fighting with sufficient evidence i.e. video should be dealt with. Violence that sees physical injury should be dealt with with maximum pemalty. I see these riots started by tools on both sides of the political spectrum and I know eliminating physical threats is a valid solution.
They spread hate. This option is not an emotional one it has been demonstrated that not dealing with riots only causes escalation.
What happened in Charlotte was completely avoidable.

9-11 was a predictable escalation... I already knew we would be attacked. I had 1 year advanced notice. People are too stupid to change. It's why hate is pointless. The world needs a fix for stupid.
This thread is another small case study for the growing data pool of uniquely human kind stupidity. The perfect blend of nihilism, hypocrisy and textbook reciprocation.

Utterly pathetic.

By the way I am American I believe in secure national boundaries and I am also mixed race (a huge disqualification for any nazi groups).
I want to stop illegal immigration. Intelligent unbiased and reasonable humans see how poorly open borders (allowing illegal immigration of individuals who despise western culture) has been for the EU. You think America hasn't already been there and done that?
The reason border security is now a top priority is because of the crime caused by illegal immigrants.

It's foolish to believe stopping illegal immigration wil end all crime, but this is all nationalism stands for - sovereignty.
Nationalism not to be confused with white nationalism or communism or fascism or racism.
A decent example of the kind of nationalism I am talking about is seen in Japan. However here in America we don't care where you come from as long as you don't cause any trouble - basically don't break any laws. The same is true of any citizen.

What is uniquely wonderful about the freedoms of America is that when an individual is truly doing it wrong they are effectively attempting to restrict another persons constitutional freedoms and inalienable rights.
CNN for example claimed to hold a private citizens personal address hostage for the sole purpose of shutting down his right to post memes on whatever platform that allows him to do so.
That is explicitly illegal. It is up to our legal system to show that idiot who the boss is. The rights within our constitution have prevailed so far.

This protests coverage has been so spotty I can't tell you what actually went on. I don't live close enough to know what is going on there few details about the wider area make my update. A riot doesn't usually make the cut unless certain weapons are involved. So I am in the dark on this situation. I honestly don't care, but when I see the social fallout I really can't stop thinking about how pathetically sheep-like human beings are.

You really want to stop the hate? Stop starting your threads off in a hateful manner.
I hope that little shread of advice sticks.



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Aura7541 said:

Agreed, though the issue has less to do with beliefs, but how people act on their beliefs.

Basically this.  



 

Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council,he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!






Well he did it. Gotta give him credit, sincere or not. 



White supremacist/Nazi's don't deserve a voice just like ISIS or any other hateful group doesn't either. You really think if an ISIS group wanted to have a rally in the US, any city would allow it? I doubt it or at least not without retaliation. Same should be for these individuals.

Trump won't even put blame on these white supremacist because he knows they are a large part of his supports.



smroadkill15 said:
White supremacist/Nazi's don't deserve a voice just like ISIS or any other hateful group doesn't either. You really think if an ISIS group wanted to have a rally in the US, any city would allow it? I doubt it or at least not without retaliation. Same should be for these individuals.

Trump won't even put blame on these white supremacist because he knows they are a large part of his supports.

He did. Look at my post right before your last one.