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Forums - Politics Discussion - White Supremacist Drives Car into Counter-Protesters (20 Injured, One Dead)

AlfredoTurkey said:
Soundwave said:

Oh I'm sure plenty of people voted againast Obama because he was black. The demographics of the country are shifting which is partly what allowed Obama to be elected twice. Trump was able to lose the popular vote but take advantge of weaknesses in Clinton as a candidate to eek out 77,000 or so votes to sneak into the presidency, but likely against a more competent/likable candidate he would've been thrashed and those demographics will continue to shift against the favor of such a candidate. 

Republican party cannot run on these ideals forever, Trump in a lot of ways is the dying last gasp of such politics in the US. 

No, the only reason Trump "won" is because more than half of our population didn't vote.

Whos to say Clinton would win if those people voted?



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

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barneystinson69 said:
Soundwave said:

Oh I'm sure plenty of people voted againast Obama because he was black. The demographics of the country are shifting which is partly what allowed Obama to be elected twice. Trump was able to lose the popular vote but take advantge of weaknesses in Clinton as a candidate to eek out 77,000 or so votes to sneak into the presidency, but likely against a more competent/likable candidate he would've been thrashed and those demographics will continue to shift against the favor of such a candidate. 

Republican party cannot run on these ideals forever, Trump in a lot of ways is the dying last gasp of such politics in the US. 

Clinton won the PV because of one state that disliked him. You could take California, Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio out of the country (4 of the 5 Trump states), and have him win the PV. I think you underestimate his support (he also got more hispanics than Romney, and more black voters as well, while doing slightly worse with whites).

He got 27% of the populations vote for fucks sake. Half of the country didn't even vote. He was not as popular as you think.



Nymeria said:
People have increasingly fallen into echo chambers dehumanizing each other polarizing discourse. It sadly doesn't surprise me to see violence or even murder when these groups intersect. All one has to do is look at the lens of how this protest/anti protest is covered in outlets to see the disparate realities we inhabit.

What point in history did KKK/NeoNazi members not exist in a disparate reality? People need to stop acting like this is something new. It's not, it was just convienant and felt warm and fuzzy to pretend it was gone rather than face up the fact that this ugliness is still here and has been there. 

It will take another 100-200 years for it to really shift things to where they really ought to be, probably because by then genetic engineering of humans will render concepts like ethnic identity almost moot (that's another can of worms, but it does show the futiliy of "racial purists" ... they are on a bus headed off a cliff, they're just too stupid to see it coming). 



Soundwave said:
barneystinson69 said:

77,000 voters in three states. In that case, there are probably millions of these people around America. The KKK barely has 1000s of people in its group, so there no, these people didn't win him the election. 

Closet racists I'm pretty sure were a fair size of his voter bloc, it doesn't have to be outright KKK members. And yes, thankfully they are a shrinking minority who lose ground, in 15 years if Trump tried the same strategy he would lose soundly even against an uncharismatic bore like Hilary. 

False. He probably have won by a larger margin. You attributed trump's win to racists (which is bullshit) but it was actually because of people who hate sjw/progressives and democrats like hillary. The younger generation is surprisingly very conservative/libertarian and more years of dealing with SJWs would have encouraged even more people to lean to the right.



Hiku said:
barneystinson69 said:

Because we don't know who drove the car! You can't denounce something when we don't know the end result.

No. It's not about the car. Like I told you, the question he could respond to was "-Do you want the support of these white nationalists groups?"

You don't need to know who was in the car to answer "No, I don't want the support of these groups:"

Did you see the video I posted? He said no, he doesn't. 



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

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AlfredoTurkey said:
Soundwave said:

Oh I'm sure plenty of people voted againast Obama because he was black. The demographics of the country are shifting which is partly what allowed Obama to be elected twice. Trump was able to lose the popular vote but take advantge of weaknesses in Clinton as a candidate to eek out 77,000 or so votes to sneak into the presidency, but likely against a more competent/likable candidate he would've been thrashed and those demographics will continue to shift against the favor of such a candidate. 

Republican party cannot run on these ideals forever, Trump in a lot of ways is the dying last gasp of such politics in the US. 

No, the only reason Trump "won" is because more than half of our population didn't vote.

Because they believed those polls?

Believe what fairy tale you want.



barneystinson69 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

No, the only reason Trump "won" is because more than half of our population didn't vote.

Whos to say Clinton would win if those people voted?

Bro, I'm a gypsy from Romania, I have a ballcrystall, I can tell you ...



NATO said:
Soundwave said:

The goal is not to "convert" racists. The goal is to show them that there is a large majority that opposes them and will oppose their ideas every step of the way. 

VGPolyglot said:

The goal is not really to change their views, as you said they may be a lost cause. The goal is to ostracize them to prevent them from spreading their views. Stopping the spread of it is what's important.

I agree fully that the aim should be to minimize spread, and show them that their is opposition, but the problem is that the children of these people will still grow up in most cases harboring the same thoughts, where as if more time and effort was spent in education then their children would have the tools available to question even their parents beliefs.

There have been many documented instances where someone harboring extremist views, was able to not only question those views but actually change the course of their lives through discussion with those whome they previously were aggressive towards, either because of forced contact through joint incarceration, or through events where the opposing sides were able to have communication outside of their associative groups.

While many would argue (and still will) that protesting is an important part of the push against extremist views, it's a short term band-aid solution to a long term problem, and it has led in many cases to the rise of extremism itself, in the opposite direction.

While they are in no means representitive of either movement as a whole, there are many within the BLM and Antifa movements who have progressed to a point of extremist behaviour in tandem to the very extremism they fight, and the question there is, even if for example, these movements were able to completely eradicate groups such as the new neo-nazi groups within america, what then, happens with the splinter cells within their own movement who, during the fight formed their own extremist contingents.

In those instances, large fires would be put out at the expense of starting multiple smaller fires, at first the damage seems significantly reduced but over time the damage could potentially get worse.

Hate breeds hate, the answer is education and discussion, the only problem is nobody is willing to actually try.

The thing is, there are attempts at education. But the problem is, many people are angry at the situation at hand, and there are malicious people that use that to their advantage by scapegoating certain groups and making it appear to be a simple and easy answer. It's hard to fight against false promises like that.



Aeolus451 said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

No, the only reason Trump "won" is because more than half of our population didn't vote.

Because they believed those polls?

Believe what fairy tale you want.

No, because Trump (and Clinton) weren't popular enough to get them to the polls. Bad candidates tend to do that. 



Soundwave said:
Nymeria said:
People have increasingly fallen into echo chambers dehumanizing each other polarizing discourse. It sadly doesn't surprise me to see violence or even murder when these groups intersect. All one has to do is look at the lens of how this protest/anti protest is covered in outlets to see the disparate realities we inhabit.

What point in history did KKK/NeoNazi members not exist in a disparate reality? People need to stop acting like this is something new. It's not, it was just convienant and felt warm and fuzzy to pretend it was gone rather than face up the fact that this ugliness is still here and has been there. 

It will take another 100-200 years for it to really shift in the way people think, probably because by then genetic engineering of humans will render concepts like ethnic identity almost moot (but that's another can of worms, but it does show the futiliy of "racial purists" ... they are on a bus headed off a cliff, they're just too stupid to see it coming). 

Well yes, OBVIOUSLY these groups have been here since the beginning.. What is *new* are a few key components -

1. An echo chamber of the internet that allows like minded people (on ALL sides) to cluster together and embolded their own beliefs by disscussion among their own, while cutting off any opposing views that may make them see things differently

2. A sensationalist mainstream media that at the very least fuels the fire of racial/identity politic tensions for ratings

3. A society that increasingly discourages and even demonize those who speak out in the workplace and public life, thus allowing beliefs and emotions to fester and eventually boil over. I think we're nearing that boiling point

4. You also have groups like BLM and Antifa on the rise and increasingly going out of their way to cause disruptions and even violence in a few cases (NOT saything these guys are on par with supremecist groups), but nonetheless these groups - along with the other factors - are the perfect storm that are giving these hate groups new life, and a new platform so to speak. It only serves to dump fuel on the fire.

I fear this is only going to create a cycle and feedback loop of violence until something eventually gives..



 

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