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Forums - Politics Discussion - This is the type of propaganda you'd see in North Korea

TH3-D0S3R said:
palou said:

If we're honest, Trump is most definetely better than Pence...

 

As a whole, my strongest beliefs on american politics currently are on electoral reforms. A system that gives only 2 viable options for the electorat is kust barely democratic, in my eyes. People feel obliged to abide to the group of opinions of one side or the other, and have become unable to view issues seperately (since they voted A, they feel the need to justify every single action that A takes, even if it isn't part of the issues which they chose A for.)

I really think that it's time that we dropped the terms "left" and "right". Issues should be regarded individually, and individuals should have the right to be judged independantly. 

 

As for the electoral system, it's just fine. 

 But as time went along I realized that I had a dislike for both candidates, so in order to support one, I had to listen to them speak.

And there's the problem. People should be able to legitametly vote for a candidate that they actually LIKE. With only 2 options, there's a high probability that that won't be the case.

 

There is a large divide within the republican party - one could easily justify a split. However, with the current electoral system, all that would do is guarantee a democrat victory. In a proportional parlimentary system, the split could be done, allowing for traditional republican voters to chose from a variety of different factions, choosing the one closest to their positions ("libertarian republicans", "conservative republicans" or the Tea party, for example.). Nonetheless, nothing is lost, as the repiblicans can still form a coalition thereafter, which, if larger than the democrats, wins the election. Similarly, Sanders could split off from the Democrats

This would allow the electorate not only to choose a republican/democrat government, but also to choose their composition, and the issues they favor. That, to me, is clearly more democratic.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

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Jobs, illegal immigration, border control, drug crisis, infrastructure - finally someone really cares about the real problems. This is why Trump might serve for full 8 years.



palou said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

 

As for the electoral system, it's just fine. 

 But as time went along I realized that I had a dislike for both candidates, so in order to support one, I had to listen to them speak.

And there's the problem. People should be able to legitametly vote for a candidate that they actually LIKE. With only 2 options, there's a high probability that that won't be the case.

 

There is a large divide within the republican party - one could easily justify a split. However, with the current electoral system, all that would do is guarantee a democrat victory. In a proportional parlimentary system, the split could be done, allowing for traditional republican voters to chose from a variety of different factions, choosing the one closest to their positions ("libertarian republicans", "conservative republicans" or the Tea party, for example.). Nonetheless, nothing is lost, as the repiblicans can still form a coalition thereafter, which, if larger than the democrats, wins the election. Similarly, Sanders could split off from the Democrats

This would allow the electorate not only to choose a republican/democrat government, but also to choose their composition, and the issues they favor. That, to me, is clearly more democratic.

I highly disagree with this statement. If you didn't want Hillary you had Bernie (although that was rigged so I shouldn't look too much into it), and if you didn't like Trump you could've supported Cruz, Rubio, or the other 5000 Republicans who went for it.

This is where the media came into play. When the primaries went on, they crapped on all the Republican candidates (their hate for Rubio was just as much as their hate for Trump), and as a result, their sensationalist reporting caused the slightly less sensationalist nominee to get the election. The media's constant attack on the right caused people just to be pissed off at the establishment, so they elected somebody who imbodies their passion, being Trump. Rubio or Cruz could have been their, but news outlets like MSNBC and CNN saw the R next to their name, and went for the hit piece.

As for everything else, eh. I would say that if anything regarding party splits, the Democrats to me appear to be on thin ice. You have Hillary who's more capitalist in a sense than Bernie who is more Socialist. These two ideologies are very separate from one another, and there has been a sort of falling out in the party as a result. The Republicans are starting to engulf left leaners who don't agree with the idea of socialism or identity politics, which as a result serves as a building block to start a conversation of ideas in the party. This is just what I have noticed this past year.

 



Aura7541 said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

I'll agree with notion, purely for the fact thatthe landscape has changed quite a bit. I know a lot of Trump supporters/defenders are Reagan Democrats, and let's be honest, the Democratic Party from 2000 is nowhere near the Party of today. How I see it is that Democrats have moved towards more leftist ideology whereas Repulicans have started to engulf parts of the left while keeping their original base in tact. That, and people tend to use the phrase as slander as shut down insults (similar to how Democrats constantly use racist, sexist, biggot, etc.). The political ideology is on a spectrum, some think slightly more left, but believe in a few solutions on the right.

As for the electoral system, it's just fine. I wish Dems and Repubs didn't control everything, but what else is there even to choose from. Libertarians have no motives to vote for, and the Green Party comes off as a single issue party to the majority of the public, which causes a lot of people to not vote for them (something that may become an issue in the Democratic Party if they go forward with the Trump bashing mentality. *Cough Waters, Pelosi, Schummer *Cough).

And as for people coming to their own conlusion, that's their own concern. I never let the Republican Party steal my vote, in fact I didn't like Trump at first. But as time went along I realized that I had a dislike for both candidates, so in order to support one, I had to listen to them speak. As I listened to Trump, he then came off as relatable to me. He didn't talk over me like Hillary, he used simple words to summarize my distaste in Washington. That and Hillary doing the whole deplorable thing really turned me off from her. Point is, I didn't like Trump, but by using my thoughts and hearing them speak, I was able to get the conclusion I desired for.

The Libertarian party chose Gary Johnson who proved to be a pretty poor speaker. I was thinking about giving him my vote, but the more he talked, the less I wanted to vote for him. The party did make huge gains in the 2016 election over the 2012 election in terms of popular vote percentage, though it wasn't enough to break the 5% threshold that would earn the party public funding eligibility.

I came to a similar conlusion, though I ultimately abstained because I didn't find any candidate to be viable. However, it was pretty obvious that Hillary began to lose it such as when she claimed that Pepe is a white supremacist symbol. Not to mention, her neglect of the working class as well as her near lack of campaigning in Wisconsin and Michigan ended up costing her the election.

I think people who voted Gary Johnson/Libertarian were the people who just wanted to say they didn't vote for either (Trump/Clinton). I wouldn't be surprised in 2020 if they gained a little more support (especially if Democrats nominate Warren or someone to that extent), but as soon as their is one fully competent nominee, I can see the Libertarians support jumping off a cliff.

Everything else I agree with 100%. I only ended up voting for Trump because I was tired of the racist/sexist thing and the fact that Hillary called Americans deplorables, that is when I realized I had to do it.



SpokenTruth said:
outlawauron said:

"New jobs" comparisons are kinda bad to do in such a small snapshot. There's a lot of factors that would go into it, much like the stock market (which has been incredible since Trump became President). It's not all due to or in lieu of the President.

Stock market since 2007.  Trump had nothing to do with it.  This current trend started in 2009.  It's been incredible for years.

It's gone from ~16.5k to 21k in a year. I don't see how that's not a good thing. The US economy not rebounding faster from the recession was a very common and valid criticism of Obama.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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TH3-D0S3R said:
palou said:

And there's the problem. People should be able to legitametly vote for a candidate that they actually LIKE. With only 2 options, there's a high probability that that won't be the case.

 

There is a large divide within the republican party - one could easily justify a split. However, with the current electoral system, all that would do is guarantee a democrat victory. In a proportional parlimentary system, the split could be done, allowing for traditional republican voters to chose from a variety of different factions, choosing the one closest to their positions ("libertarian republicans", "conservative republicans" or the Tea party, for example.). Nonetheless, nothing is lost, as the repiblicans can still form a coalition thereafter, which, if larger than the democrats, wins the election. Similarly, Sanders could split off from the Democrats

This would allow the electorate not only to choose a republican/democrat government, but also to choose their composition, and the issues they favor. That, to me, is clearly more democratic.

I highly disagree with this statement. If you didn't want Hillary you had Bernie (although that was rigged so I shouldn't look too much into it), and if you didn't like Trump you could've supported Cruz, Rubio, or the other 5000 Republicans who went for it.

This is where the media came into play. When the primaries went on, they crapped on all the Republican candidates (their hate for Rubio was just as much as their hate for Trump), and as a result, their sensationalist reporting caused the slightly less sensationalist nominee to get the election. The media's constant attack on the right caused people just to be pissed off at the establishment, so they elected somebody who imbodies their passion, being Trump. Rubio or Cruz could have been their, but news outlets like MSNBC and CNN saw the R next to their name, and went for the hit piece.

As for everything else, eh. I would say that if anything regarding party splits, the Democrats to me appear to be on thin ice. You have Hillary who's more capitalist in a sense than Bernie who is more Socialist. These two ideologies are very separate from one another, and there has been a sort of falling out in the party as a result. The Republicans are starting to engulf left leaners who don't agree with the idea of socialism or identity politics, which as a result serves as a building block to start a conversation of ideas in the party. This is just what I have noticed this past year.

 

Trump won with less than 50%  of the primary votes and less than 50% of the presidential votes. This is normal for the system, and I'm not syaing that Clinton would have better represented the country. However, why not just have people that prefer Rubio vot for Rubio in the general elections? 

 

It's very obvious that a large portion of the American population was unhappy with the choices they had in the end. 

I really don't see how a mixed proportional system, such as in Germany, could not be preferred over what you currently have.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Well Trump is a giant joke so far so the video is pretty much what I was expecting from him. I'm surprised he did get Tomi Lahren or Lauren Southern for the job they are both giant Trump nuthuggers.



So, conflict of interest isn't really a problem for the US anymore.

It's sad to see how much the country has gone to shit in just a few months. But you guys brought it on yourselves. I have no idea why you keep voting in the republican party when they always ruins the country.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

the-pi-guy said:
Aura7541 said:

The Libertarian party chose Gary Johnson who proved to be a pretty poor speaker. I was thinking about giving him my vote, but the more he talked, the less I wanted to vote for him. The party did make huge gains in the 2016 election over the 2012 election in terms of popular vote percentage, though it wasn't enough to break the 5% threshold that would earn the party public funding eligibility.

I came to a similar conlusion, though I ultimately abstained because I didn't find any candidate to be viable. However, it was pretty obvious that Hillary began to lose it such as when she claimed that Pepe is a white supremacist symbol. Not to mention, her neglect of the working class as well as her near lack of campaigning in Wisconsin and Michigan ended up costing her the election.

No, she wasn't losing it.  Even the guy who created Pepe said that it was a shame that people started using it as a white supremacist symbol.  

Yes, she was losing it. At that moment, she clearly demonstrated that she had no idea what internet meme culture is. In addition, it's a rather bold claim that Pepe is a white supremacist symbol as you need to prove that the vast majority of people who use the meme are white supremacists. Whether the creator of the meme says that it is used by white supremacists is irrelevant as he, you, nor Hillary have provided any solid evidence to back up that claim. Appeal to authority does not substitute for fulfilling the burden of proof.



the-pi-guy said:
Aura7541 said:

The Libertarian party chose Gary Johnson who proved to be a pretty poor speaker. I was thinking about giving him my vote, but the more he talked, the less I wanted to vote for him. The party did make huge gains in the 2016 election over the 2012 election in terms of popular vote percentage, though it wasn't enough to break the 5% threshold that would earn the party public funding eligibility.

I came to a similar conlusion, though I ultimately abstained because I didn't find any candidate to be viable. However, it was pretty obvious that Hillary began to lose it such as when she claimed that Pepe is a white supremacist symbol. Not to mention, her neglect of the working class as well as her near lack of campaigning in Wisconsin and Michigan ended up costing her the election.

No, she wasn't losing it.  Even the guy who created Pepe said that it was a shame that people started using it as a white supremacist symbol.  

At the time she spoke about this, there was the Milwaukee riots, Louisiana flooding, California wildfires, along with other pressing issues like the Flint water crisis and the overall tear in the country.

She talked about Pepe the Frog.

I don't see how talking about meme cultrue is a rational discussion. Memes are jokes themselves, defending someone ranting about memes being dumb is pointless to begin with, because like I said, memes are jokes.