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Forums - General Discussion - Twenty year old woman gets 15 months in Prison for encouraging boyfriend to kill himself

JWeinCom on 03 August 2017
SuperNova said:

Reading that...makes me sick. What gets me are the casual endearments thrown in, like she's doing him a favor. They talk about his suicide like it's his collage application or a job opportunity, not the end of his existence. That...normalization is sick.

 

And the worst thing is, I can see how it happened. I have people really close to me that fit this sick mold of a relationship and it gives me anxiety. Yeah, she deserved every single minute of that sentence and still got off lightly.

She also dealt with depression and anxiety.  And one of those things that can come along with depression is thinking that suicide is a good idea.  Obviously, the girl's fucked in the head.  I'm not sure exactly how prison is going to help with that.  

Aeolus451 said:
JWeinCom said:
Roy: "i don't want anyone hurt in the process though"
Roy: "I meant when they open the door, all the carbon monoxide is gonna come out they can't see it or smell it. whoever opens the door"
Carter: "They will see the generator and know that you died of CO. . . ."
----
Roy: "hey can you do me a favor"
Carter: "Yes of course"
Roy: "just be there for my family :)"
Carter: "Conrad, of course I will be there for your family. I will help them as much as I can to get thru this, ill tell them about how amazing their son/brother truly was"
----
Roy: "Idk I'm freaking out again"
Roy: I'm overthinking"
Carter: "I thought you wanted to do this. The time is right and you're ready, you just need to do it! You can't keep living this way. You just need to do it like you did last time and not think about it and just do it babe. You can't keep doing this every day"
Roy: "I do want to. but like I'm freaking for my family. I guess"
Roy: "idkkk"
Carter: "Conrad. I told you I'll take care of them. Everyone will take care of them to make sure they won't be alone and people will help them get thru it. We talked about this, they will be okay and accept it. People who commit suicide don't think this much and they just do it"

July 12, 2014

In these exchanges on the day before his body was found, Roy expresses more hesitation about his plan.
Carter: "So I guess you aren't gonna do it then, all that for nothing"
Carter: "I'm just confused like you were so ready and determined"
Roy: "I am gonna eventually"
Roy: "I really don't know what I'm waiting for. . but I have everything lined up"
Carter: "No, you're not, Conrad. Last night was it. You keep pushing it off and you say you'll do it but u never do. Its always gonna be that way if u don't take action"
Carter: "You're just making it harder on yourself by pushing it off, you just have to do it"
Carter: "Do u wanna do it now?"
Roy: "Is it too late?"
Roy: "Idkk it's already light outside"
Roy: I'm gonna go back to sleep, love you I'll text you tomorrow"
Carter: "No? Its probably the best time now because everyone's sleeping. Just go somewhere in your truck. And no one's really out right now because it's an awkward time"
Carter: "If u don't do it now you're never gonna do it"
Carter: "And u can say you'll do it tomorrow but you probably won't"
---
Carter: "You just need to do it Conrad or I'm gonna get you help"
Carter: "You can't keep doing this everyday"
Roy: "Okay I'm gonna do it today"
Carter: "Do you promise"
Roy: "I promise babe"
Roy: "I have to now"
Carter: "Like right now?"
Roy: "where do I go? :("
Carter: "And u can't break a promise. And just go in a quiet parking lot or something."
Nah, she was being pretty literal.

Any recording of them actually talking about this or records of them communicating before all that? The reason why I'm asking if just about anything is damning on text because emotions can't be conveyed through it easily or you can't read facial reactions/body language or the tone of their voice. 

I still think she shouldn't go to jail over it. There are couples out there pushing for legal suicide for one of them while the other is supporting their choice. 

There is no reasonable interpretation aside from her telling him to kill himself.  Especially considering that he killed himself in the manner they discussed.  She But yes, she was on the phone with him as he was doing it.  He left the car, and she told him to get back in.

I haven't heard of anyone arguing for legal suicide, except in the case of of those with terminal illnesses.  Even if they did, I don't see how that is at all relevant.  People arguing for something has nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal.  See: NAMBLA.



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Jumpin on 03 August 2017

People tell me to kill myself all the time on this forum.
People tell each other to kill themselves all the time on youtube.

This sets a precedent for anyone who decides to prosecute against such people. Plus if she has mental illness, then this sentence is not going to do much to reform her; she would require some kind of therapy.

Another US citizen, a man, ran down and killed 4 people, and permanently injured a 5th, putting him in a coma. He got 10 years probation, mental therapy, no prison. That's manslaughter much much worse since these people were not planning to kill themselves, and four times over, plus ruining the life of a fifth.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

MTZehvor on 03 August 2017
Jumpin said:
People tell me to kill myself all the time on this forum.
People tell each other to kill themselves all the time on youtube.

This sets a precedent for anyone who decides to prosecute against such people. Plus if she has mental illness, then this sentence is not going to do much to reform her; she would require some kind of therapy.

Another US citizen, a man, ran down and killed 4 people, and permanently injured a 5th, putting him in a coma. He got 10 years probation, mental therapy, no prison. That's manslaughter much much worse since these people were not planning to kill themselves, and four times over, plus ruining the life of a fifth.

Could you provide a link to that story? It seems like there has to be more to the latter story.



Machiavellian on 03 August 2017
Zkuq said:
Ignoring whether what she did is or should be a crime, what she did was certainly not 'involuntary manslaughter', which is what she was convicted for. Well, at least unless involuntary manslaughter is defined in a really bizarre way in the law.

Reading the definition of involuntary manslaughter, I would say that she definitely broke the law.  She was a main catalyst to his death.  The reason she did not get the voluntary is because she did not assist with his death.  Here are the 3 conditions for involuntary manslaughter

 1.    Someone was killed as a result of the defendant's actions.

2.    The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.

 

3.    The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.



JWeinCom on 03 August 2017
Jumpin said:
People tell me to kill myself all the time on this forum.
People tell each other to kill themselves all the time on youtube.

This sets a precedent for anyone who decides to prosecute against such people. Plus if she has mental illness, then this sentence is not going to do much to reform her; she would require some kind of therapy.

Another US citizen, a man, ran down and killed 4 people, and permanently injured a 5th, putting him in a coma. He got 10 years probation, mental therapy, no prison. That's manslaughter much much worse since these people were not planning to kill themselves, and four times over, plus ruining the life of a fifth.

That's like saying people have sex with a drugged girl shouldn't be a crime, because people have sex all the time.  Those are obviously not analogous situations.  

Just like telling someone to kill themselves on this forum (by the way if it happens all the time, you may want to check your attitude cause I haven't seen that happen to anyone else) is not analogous to telling someone you have a close relationship with, who has confided in you that they want to kill themself, who is in the process of killing themself to kill themself.



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Aeolus451 on 03 August 2017
JWeinCom said:
SuperNova said:

Reading that...makes me sick. What gets me are the casual endearments thrown in, like she's doing him a favor. They talk about his suicide like it's his collage application or a job opportunity, not the end of his existence. That...normalization is sick.

 

And the worst thing is, I can see how it happened. I have people really close to me that fit this sick mold of a relationship and it gives me anxiety. Yeah, she deserved every single minute of that sentence and still got off lightly.

She also dealt with depression and anxiety.  And one of those things that can come along with depression is thinking that suicide is a good idea.  Obviously, the girl's fucked in the head.  I'm not sure exactly how prison is going to help with that.  

Aeolus451 said:

Any recording of them actually talking about this or records of them communicating before all that? The reason why I'm asking if just about anything is damning on text because emotions can't be conveyed through it easily or you can't read facial reactions/body language or the tone of their voice. 

I still think she shouldn't go to jail over it. There are couples out there pushing for legal suicide for one of them while the other is supporting their choice. 

There is no reasonable interpretation aside from her telling him to kill himself.  Especially considering that he killed himself in the manner they discussed.  She But yes, she was on the phone with him as he was doing it.  He left the car, and she told him to get back in.

I haven't heard of anyone arguing for legal suicide, except in the case of of those with terminal illnesses.  Even if they did, I don't see how that is at all relevant.  People arguing for something has nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal.  See: NAMBLA.

It's relevant to this because the person's spouse in these cases are often encouraging or supporting their spouse to commit suicide in a roundabout way. It's not a whole lot different than what she did. Some of these people have mental issues that just don't want to deal with anymore and this is an avenue that can choose.

The regular blue states is where assisted suicide is legal. The baby blue state is where it reguires a court ruling to do it, The red states is where it's illegal. The yellow states is where there's legislation is being considered or a court case is ongoing about it to decide precedent. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States

http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/assisted-suicide-state-laws/

I'm not saying that girl is innocent or a nice person. i'm just trying to be objective about it outside of knee-jerk reactions to it. 

 

NAMBLA is nothing like this and it's not gonna happen anytime soon. If anything needs to be shut down or a situation where free speech shouldn't be allowed is with that stuff. I've come across some of these kind of people on youtube with vids on it. ugh..



superchunk on 03 August 2017

My god. After reading those texts... 15months... fuck that, 15 years should have been it. What a twisted evil bitch.



Zkuq on 03 August 2017
Machiavellian said:
Zkuq said:
Ignoring whether what she did is or should be a crime, what she did was certainly not 'involuntary manslaughter', which is what she was convicted for. Well, at least unless involuntary manslaughter is defined in a really bizarre way in the law.

Reading the definition of involuntary manslaughter, I would say that she definitely broke the law.  She was a main catalyst to his death.  The reason she did not get the voluntary is because she did not assist with his death.  Here are the 3 conditions for involuntary manslaughter

 1.    Someone was killed as a result of the defendant's actions.

2.    The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.

 

3.    The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

Hmm. Those are some pretty broad definitions, because I bet they weren't written with verbal actions in mind but they definitely allow an interpretation where the actions can be verbal. Seems like bad legal writing to me.



nanarchy on 03 August 2017

she got off very lightly. For those that think you should not be able to be prosecuted for words, a lot of crime bosses would love that. "Your honour i only told him to go kill those people, not my fault he actually listened to me"



VGPolyglot on 03 August 2017

Hmm, suicide is a subject that I am definitely a bit sensitive to, knowing many people that have committed it in the past. Now, the approach to this is very hard to answer, because I don't know how mentally stable the person who encouraged the suicide is.