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Forums - Sales Discussion - Third-Person Shooters Sales Analysis - How is the genre trending based on major franchises sales

potato_hamster on 19 July 2017
atma998 said:
potato_hamster said:

No. If Uncharted is an Action game, then so is MGS. There's nothing about MGS that makes it more of a shooter than Uncharted.

Even Wikipedia calls MGS an action-adventure game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid

Uncharted on the otherhand...

"Uncharted is an action-adventure third-person shooter platform video game series"

Actually, they are putting both franchises in both the 'third-person shooter' and 'Action-Adventure' category. I have just not included Uncharted into the FPS genre as the game's action is less orientend on shooting people than MGS.

Can you read? It says point blank

"Metal Gear Solid is an action-adventure stealth video game"

Care to point out in that wikipedia article where the word "shooter" or "TPS" or "Third Person" appears in any way? It's a stealth action game. It basically created that genre with the original Metal Gear games from the 80's.

How is MGS more oriented on shooting people than games like Uncharted? Have you actually played MGS? Just because a game allows you to use guns doesn't mean it's a shooter. The game encourages you in many spots to not only not shoot anyone, but not be seen, or to knock enemies out with CQC or other stun weapons, and rewards you for doing so. Do you remember the river boss fight in MGS3 where the number of people you killed up to that point made the fight more difficult?  I've spent higher of a percentage of my time shooting people in the Uncharted Series than I have in the Metal Gear Solid series.



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Barozi on 19 July 2017

By that logic, Gears of War is a chainsaw simulator. Uncharted is a TPS. It's a main focus of the game. Same for Tomb Raider.



atma998 on 19 July 2017
potato_hamster said:
atma998 said:

Actually, they are putting both franchises in both the 'third-person shooter' and 'Action-Adventure' category. I have just not included Uncharted into the FPS genre as the game's action is less orientend on shooting people than MGS.

Can you read? It says point blank

"Metal Gear Solid is an action-adventure stealth video game"

Care to point out in that wikipedia article where the word "shooter" or "TPS" or "Third Person" appears in any way? It's a stealth action game. It basically created that genre with the original Metal Gear games from the 80's.

How is MGS more oriented on shooting people than games like Uncharted? Have you actually played MGS? Just because a game allows you to use guns doesn't mean it's a shooter. The game encourages you in many spots to not only not shoot anyone, but not be seen, or to knock enemies out with CQC or other stun weapons, and rewards you for doing so. Do you remember the river boss fight in MGS3 where the number of people you killed up to that point made the fight more difficult?  I've spent higher of a percentage of my time shooting people in the Uncharted Series than I have in the Metal Gear Solid series.



atma998 on 19 July 2017
Barozi said:
By that logic, Gears of War is a chainsaw simulator. Uncharted is a TPS. It's a main focus of the game. Same for Tomb Raider.

Yeah... and Super Mario Bros. is not a platformer but a jumping simulator. Stop with the trolling please.

Uncharted has platform, shooting, exploring, puzzle solving elements, it's clearly an Action-Adventure game, not a TPS. Same for Tomb Raider.

While I agree MGS is not a pure TPS ala Gears of War, it is way more of a TPS than an Action-Adventure game.



Turkish on 19 July 2017
atma998 said:

After having done the same analysis for FPS: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=228760&page=1# , I am now doing it for the TPS genre.

These are all console combined sales for each title of the main series of the TPS major franchises so far:

Keep in mind that only the major franchises of the TPS genre are included and these are console only (no PC). Splatoon could be included in a future revision since we don't have the numbers yet for its sequel.

Resident Evil: This franchise is clearly on a downhill. RE7 sales are bad compared to what it did with RE5/RE6. Even when including digital sales, the game would not have reached 4M yet. Capcom would have to achieve a feat to reverse this trending with RE8 at this point.

Gears of War: The GoW franchise is also on a downhill compared to kind of numbers it did in the past. Again, the digital numbers would place GoW4 in a better position but would not be comparable to GoW1/2/3 numbers.

Mass Effect: Andromeda being considered as the fourth major entry of the series, is doing poorly so far. The game might have been released only 4 months ago, it did not managed to sell 2 million so far which is disappointing to say the least.

Metal Gear Solid: Here are better news for the TPS genre as the last MGS game did fair numbers. MGSV being released on 4 different platforms managed to sell about as well as MGS4 did on PS3. The fact that there was a 7 years gap betweeen the release of MGS4 and MGSV might have helped too.

Taking all this into consideration, we may come to the same conclusion as the one for FPS: the genre is faltering. Developers would have to put some fresh new concepts to increase the sales of the shooter genre overall.

What are your thoughts?

So you cherry pick and omit games to fit your narrative that "tps are on the decline", that's confirmation bias.

Lmao at ignoring Uncharted because "action/adventure" but including MGS, literally the first hit on Google says "Metal Gear is a series of action-adventure stealth video games, created by Hideo Kojima and developed and published by Konami" or survival horror Resident Evil. We all know you ignored Uncharted because it'd destroy your agenda.

Make a better, non-biased thread next time.

I hope mods take action to these kind of threads, now all discussion is whether game X or Y is a TPS or not, all which could've been avoided if OP did a better job at making the thread.



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think-man on 19 July 2017

Last time I checked RE7 was from first person prospective. Also you missed the biggest TPS on the Playstation xD



 

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potato_hamster on 19 July 2017
atma998 said:
potato_hamster said:

Can you read? It says point blank

"Metal Gear Solid is an action-adventure stealth video game"

Care to point out in that wikipedia article where the word "shooter" or "TPS" or "Third Person" appears in any way? It's a stealth action game. It basically created that genre with the original Metal Gear games from the 80's.

How is MGS more oriented on shooting people than games like Uncharted? Have you actually played MGS? Just because a game allows you to use guns doesn't mean it's a shooter. The game encourages you in many spots to not only not shoot anyone, but not be seen, or to knock enemies out with CQC or other stun weapons, and rewards you for doing so. Do you remember the river boss fight in MGS3 where the number of people you killed up to that point made the fight more difficult?  I've spent higher of a percentage of my time shooting people in the Uncharted Series than I have in the Metal Gear Solid series.

Isn't that the Wikipedia page for Metal Gear Solid V? That's curious. I wonder why you chose that one. It's probably because that "third person shooter" category tag doesn't appear on the Metal Gear Solid series wikipedia page, or Metal Gear Solid 1's, or Metal Gear Solid 2's, or Metal Gear Solid 3's... need I go on?

This is what we call "cherry picking".




atma998 on 19 July 2017
Turkish said:
atma998 said:

After having done the same analysis for FPS: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=228760&page=1# , I am now doing it for the TPS genre.

These are all console combined sales for each title of the main series of the TPS major franchises so far:

Keep in mind that only the major franchises of the TPS genre are included and these are console only (no PC). Splatoon could be included in a future revision since we don't have the numbers yet for its sequel.

Resident Evil: This franchise is clearly on a downhill. RE7 sales are bad compared to what it did with RE5/RE6. Even when including digital sales, the game would not have reached 4M yet. Capcom would have to achieve a feat to reverse this trending with RE8 at this point.

Gears of War: The GoW franchise is also on a downhill compared to kind of numbers it did in the past. Again, the digital numbers would place GoW4 in a better position but would not be comparable to GoW1/2/3 numbers.

Mass Effect: Andromeda being considered as the fourth major entry of the series, is doing poorly so far. The game might have been released only 4 months ago, it did not managed to sell 2 million so far which is disappointing to say the least.

Metal Gear Solid: Here are better news for the TPS genre as the last MGS game did fair numbers. MGSV being released on 4 different platforms managed to sell about as well as MGS4 did on PS3. The fact that there was a 7 years gap betweeen the release of MGS4 and MGSV might have helped too.

Taking all this into consideration, we may come to the same conclusion as the one for FPS: the genre is faltering. Developers would have to put some fresh new concepts to increase the sales of the shooter genre overall.

What are your thoughts?

So you cherry pick and omit games to fit your narrative that "tps are on the decline", that's confirmation bias.

Lmao at ignoring Uncharted because "action/adventure" but including MGS, literally the first hit on Google says "Metal Gear is a series of action-adventure stealth video games, created by Hideo Kojima and developed and published by Konami" or survival horror Resident Evil. We all know you ignored Uncharted because it'd destroy your agenda.

Make a better, non-biased thread next time.

I hope mods take action to these kind of threads, now all discussion is whether game X or Y is a TPS or not, all which could've been avoided if OP did a better job at making the thread.

Like I said it's a matter of interpretation whether we should include X or Y franchise into a specific genre. For certain games there is no general concensus even on wikipedia. I had to trace a line somewhere and I assume entirely the decision I made to not include Uncharted into the TPS genre. I will do a Action-Adventure sales analysis at some point which will include Uncharted.

But hey feel free to make your own graph and try to find out different conclusions if you want. I'm sure yours will be better and non-biased and that no one will be complaining about your own choices...



atma998 on 19 July 2017
potato_hamster said:
atma998 said:

Isn't that the Wikipedia page for Metal Gear Solid V? That's curious. I wonder why you chose that one. It's probably because that "third person shooter" category tag doesn't appear on the Metal Gear Solid series wikipedia page, or Metal Gear Solid 1's, or Metal Gear Solid 2's, or Metal Gear Solid 3's... need I go on?

This is what we call "cherry picking".
                               

Why not going on? This tag appears on MGS4 too.

Seriously, I'm not sure to get your point, if I remove MGS from my list of TPS major franchises, then the TPS sales trending would look more bad.

 



potato_hamster on 19 July 2017
atma998 said:
potato_hamster said:

Isn't that the Wikipedia page for Metal Gear Solid V? That's curious. I wonder why you chose that one. It's probably because that "third person shooter" category tag doesn't appear on the Metal Gear Solid series wikipedia page, or Metal Gear Solid 1's, or Metal Gear Solid 2's, or Metal Gear Solid 3's... need I go on?

This is what we call "cherry picking".
                               

Why not going on? This tag appears on MGS4 too.

Seriously, I'm not sure to get your point, if I remove MGS from my list of TPS major franchises, then the TPS sales trending would look more bad.

 

lol. As if that changes anything! Even if one or two games do have that label, this series spans over 10 games. It's like saying that the Metal Gear Solid series is set in Alaska because MGS1 and part of MGS4 is. The Metal Gear series is not a third person shooter series. Period.

Don't be so dishonest.