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Forums - Politics Discussion - St. Louis will drop minimum wage from $10 to $7.70.

VGPolyglot said:
Superman4 said:

Minimum wage is just that, a minimum. For more talented employees a higher wage is justified, $10/hr for someone to seat people or $15/hr in Seattle is stupid. The minimum wage was designed to enforce payment for services, it was a driving factor in unions back in the day. Raising minimum wage and forcing medical insurance on everyone including employers is a perfect storm of employees not having jobs, working less hours and paying full price for insurance and employers raising prices.

Issue 1: High minimum wage for a small company with say 10 employees, if they started out at $7.70.hr and the owner was forced to increase everyone to $10/hr his cost per year based on a full time employee would increase by $44,160 per year. That is for all 10 employees at 40 hours per week. That is a considerable cost increase for a small business and will surly dictate that owner raise costs.

Issue 2: ACA which requires that all employers provide medical insurance for all full time employees. This is twofold, first that 44K in issue 1 is now increased significantly due to health care costs. Not only is the employer required to pay a portion of the insurance but the employee must now also pay for insurance, that obviously cuts into that minimum wage increase and could end up costing more than the increase. Now the employer must raise prices even more to cover costs. Let’s say the employer is on the hook for $500 per employee, in that 10 employee scenario it will cost the employer an extra $60,000 per year for those 10 employees just for medical insurance. Add that to the minimum wage increase and it now costs that employer $104,160 more per year for those same 10 employees. That is a lot of money for a small business and gets even larger when talking about large business. The employee however now has insurance and will expect to lose anywhere from $100 to $200 per check to cover those costs. That $2.30 per hour minimum wage increase equates to $368 per month of an increase. So the employee is now making less than the $7.70 per hour after medical is taken out.

 

 

In order to cut costs the employers are now cutting employee’s hours back so they do not need to provide medical coverage. Employees will then see an average of 30 hours per week instead of 40 and have no insurance and no chance of overtime. That employee will now make $1200 per month instead of $1232 per month. That isn’t much difference per month however per year that is a difference of $384. That is more than a week’s pay at $10/hr and 30 hours per week. So per year employees with that pay scale will see a decrease in salary of $384 per year in wages and still be forced to purchase insurance, something they were not forced to do before the ACA.

I realize that businesses require the exploitation of their employees to survive, that's why I don't encourage reformation of the current system, because it'll always have the same problems.

I wouldn’t say its exploitation for most scenarios. Being paid for your talent and worth to the company should be taken into consideration. Finding another Fry Guy to dip the potatoes in oil is hardly a hard job to fill or one that requires much talent. Minimum wage positions are generally the entry level menial task positions, you start to make more as responsibility and experience increase. Starting everyone out at $15/hr like in Seattle is just asking for a huge wage inequality issue. You will end up with Managers and Shift leaders etc. making the same as someone off the street with no experience, that doesn’t really bode well for employee morale. It’s just a bad idea all the way around. If a company wants to offer higher wages for its employees because it has run the math and decides it can do so than so be it, to force companies to pay what you think they should regardless of margins and sales revenue is overstepping. The "minimum" is a guideline that when increased to what is considered a high wage for entry level will only do damage to the middle class and broaden the gap between middle and upper class.



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Pyro as Bill said:
vivster said:
The government should support small business to stay open but some business are not meant to be. Higher minimum wage helps everyone.

Absolutely. Fuck the greedy business owners and make it $100/hr instead. Anyone with skills/knowledge that aren't worth $100/hr deserves to be unemployed.

So High School kids looking to make some extra money to pay for gas, car insurance deserver $100/hr? Wal-Mart greators who stand around and hand out stickers deserve it as well?



Superman4 said:
Teeqoz said:
You could get completely rid of the minimum wage if more American workers were unionized. I mean jesus christ, only 10.7% of the American work force is unionized. That's ridiculously low. If more people became members in labour unions they would have a much better bargaining hand when it came to wages.

Unions are why jobs are going overseas. Just pay a lawer to represent you and you will spend your money better. Union dues pay the employees of Unions, State and Federal laws dictate labour law. Unions do fight for higher wages and benefits and in turn companies charge more for their products, the employee gets a higher wage and gets to give the union dues which eats into their take home pay.

The jobs that are going overseas will go overseas regardless. US low-skill workers in movable industries can't compete with those workers from China/India/etc, and no one can compete with robots.

As for wether it's worth it, on average, unionized workers make 10-30% (varies between types of jobs and age groups) more than non-unionized workers in the US. The highest premium is for low skilled jobs, because people in higher skilled jobs on average have more leverage to negotiate pay, but even for them they benefit around 10%.

People that make $10 an hour will make about $20000 a year working normal shifts, which would be bumped up to about $23000 (on average) for the comparable unionized worker (using a reasonable estimate of 15% better pay). Meanwhile, union dues for such a worker would only be around 350$ a year.... So it is definitely worth it.



Superman4 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Absolutely. Fuck the greedy business owners and make it $100/hr instead. Anyone with skills/knowledge that aren't worth $100/hr deserves to be unemployed.

So High School kids looking to make some extra money to pay for gas, car insurance deserver $100/hr? Wal-Mart greators who stand around and hand out stickers deserve it as well?

High school kids deserve $200/hr at least. How are they supposed to learn if they're working at he same time?

Walmart makes billions of dollars, is increasing wages to $100/hr really going to hurt them?



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Teeqoz said:
Superman4 said:

Unions are why jobs are going overseas. Just pay a lawer to represent you and you will spend your money better. Union dues pay the employees of Unions, State and Federal laws dictate labour law. Unions do fight for higher wages and benefits and in turn companies charge more for their products, the employee gets a higher wage and gets to give the union dues which eats into their take home pay.

The jobs that are going overseas will go overseas regardless. US low-skill workers in movable industries can't compete with those workers from China/India/etc, and no one can compete with robots.

As for wether it's worth it, on average, unionized workers make 10-30% (varies between types of jobs and age groups) more than non-unionized workers in the US. The highest premium is for low skilled jobs, because people in higher skilled jobs on average have more leverage to negotiate pay, but even for them they benefit around 10%.

People that make $10 an hour will make about $20000 a year working normal shifts, which would be bumped up to about $23000 (on average) for the comparable unionized worker (using a reasonable estimate of 15% better pay). Meanwhile, union dues for such a worker would only be around 350$ a year.... So it is definitely worth it.

Until the capital that was supposed to be used for investment into more productive equipment is diverted to wages and everyone loses their job because the company that paid lower wages had the capital to increase productivity and undercut you.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

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VGPolyglot said:
I see a lot of people say how there'll be businesses that go bust if they have to pay their workers a higher wage, but the question is, is that really a bad thing? I'm sure there were businesses that relied on slavery that went bust too once it was abolished, should we have kept slavery legal to ensure that didn't happen?

Same things where said 100 years ago, when Henry Ford almost doubled the daily paychecks at the Ford Motor Company. Instead, that's where the US economy REALLY took off and mass motorisation ensued. Why you might ask? Well, because wih the higher wages, people could spend more money on consumer products, thus helping the economy of the entire country, especially after the other companies followed suit (they did so because their skilled employees left their companies in droves to get hired by Ford, and had to stop that situation asap) and raised they wages too.



SpokenTruth said:

This guy runs a mid-high end restaurant that sells a $32 scallops meal and he's paying his employees minimum wage?

Also, This is why he's losing money. A 50% reduction in revenue, not a $92 per week pay increase for a couple of employees.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/washington-avenue-resturant-group-sounding-warning-about-lack-of-business/

Yeah, I was wondering how a local business that probably employs very few people could be THAT impacted by 10 minimum wage. Your link makes way more sense than what the op is saying. But hey, blame the minimum wage and lower it to a deplorable 7.70 an hour, enjoy that drop in quality from workers as well



The minimum wage should be whatever it costs to pay a single person's rent, food, phone bill, car insurance, gasoline, car payment and gym fee, while living in a studio apartment. Take the total amount of all those things find the average and add $200 just for good measure. Then divide by 40. There's your unofficial minimum wage.

Also there hasn't been a federal minimum wage increase since 2009, and before that it was something like 6.50 an hour. $7.25 an hour only gets you about $986 a month at full time. Rent for most studio apartments is $500-$700 alone. Should people live off cereal, have no phone, no car, and work 40 hours a week? That's 3rd world country conditions.

Also, all those corporate jobs that force you to work 60 hours a week for "salaried" should go out of business. That's just another way to pay below minimum.



Agree with the move, but not with the principle.

I don't think the minimum wage should be the vehicle to boost people out of poverty. Raise the earned income tax credit instead. i.e., more help for single moms, less help for high school kids living with their parents.

Totally disagree with the, "Don't ask what do I get, ask what can I do." mentality. It's a nice lesson to teach your kids, but on a macroeconomic scale, it's a sucker's move. It's a relic from a time in which Germany and Japan were in shambles, and the developing world had no infrastructure.

We need to get with the times. Working people making low wages need help.



Cerebralbore101 said:

The minimum wage should be whatever it costs to pay a single person's rent, food, phone bill, car insurance, gasoline, car payment and gym fee, while living in a studio apartment. Take the total amount of all those things find the average and add $200 just for good measure. Then divide by 40. There's your unofficial minimum wage.

Also there hasn't been a federal minimum wage increase since 2009, and before that it was something like 6.50 an hour. $7.25 an hour only gets you about $986 a month at full time. Rent for most studio apartments is $500-$700 alone. Should people live off cereal, have no phone, no car, and work 40 hours a week? That's 3rd world country conditions.

Also, all those corporate jobs that force you to work 60 hours a week for "salaried" should go out of business. That's just another way to pay below minimum.

I agree that we need to do a lot more to help the working poor, but I disagree with the bolded.

I feel like the idea that everyone needs to have their own place (no family, no roommates) and everyone needs their own car (no carpooling, no public transit) is a pretty America-centric idea.