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Nintendo First Party Software Problems

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Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

"Game Freaks has begun developing" and "now in development" point to recent events.
In MP4's case your own quote shows that Nintendo wanted to let people know right at the start.
Either it's began recently or not. You can't have it both ways.

"and they showed 2 games that could be relased in second half of 2018. "
This is the part i was talking about. There's nothing pointing at this - other than you wishing/believing.
So, yes, until both games come out in 2018, you were wrong.

The question was not if Nintendo wanted to please fans for not announcing a Switch Pokemon game in the ND. Your argument was that the Spotlight reveal was made because of that.
I don't believe that to be the case; i haven't seen any hint proving you right; i even showed you that Nintendo doesn't work that way (used the FForce backlash to show this).

Those non-revealed games of January were the exception. The same way Mario Tennis for Wii U was revealed at E3 2015 and launched months after.
Exceptions.
E3 showed you that they reveal (always have) more than just what's coming in the short term.

I don't know if there's reason to worry, but i do believe there's no reason to say all is fine when they have only announced 3 (confirmed to be) 2018 games.

Yes it can be go in both ways. But have on mind that Reggie and Nintendo were hinting Metroid Prime for quite time now.

Why you ingoring fact they said they "it may not be released in more than in year" for Pokemon. Holiday 2018. is year and half after E3 2017. so defiantly its posible that can be relased in 2018. and that actually even sound like they aiming holiday 2018. release. For Metroid Prime 4, we dont know for how much is development and of course also it could be released in holiday 2018. that again is around 1.5 year after E3 2017. announcement. I can't be wrong with that because I wrote they could be released in second half of 2018. not that they will certainly be released. But you will be wrong if only one is relased in 2018. beacuse you are saying they will not be relased in 2018.

You believe whatever you want, even dispte strong point and facts. Like I wrote, Force backlash doesn't have anything with this situation, what exactly they could said after FForce backlash, certainly they didn't want to say they are working on some "NX" game when "NX" still wasn't revealed, but actualy they did start hinting Metroid Prime after FForce backlash.

 

Only Mario Tennis!? :D You have plenty of those examples for Wii U and 3DS, SM3DW was 1st time shown at E3 2013. and released in November of same year, Paper Mario: Color Splash was revealed in March 2016. and released in October, Captain Toad was announced at E3 2014. and released in December of same year, TP HD was revealed in November and relesed in March (4 monts later), WW HD was revealed in January event and released in September, Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis were revealed at E3 2015. and were released in November, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse and Mario Party 10 at E3 2014. and they were relased in February and March, Hyrule Warriors was revealed  in December and released in September...I will not even bother with 3DS games I will just mentione last example, this 3DS Pokemon was announced in June and it will be released in November, while previous one was announced in February and released in November of same year.

This is clear example how Nintendo is operating in most cases, they reveal and launch game in less than a year and like you can see there are plenty examples where they announced and released game in less than 6 months. Wii U list would have even much more examples if Wii U didnt sell terrible and Nintendo in panic mode announced most of Wii U projects they had in that time in January event just 2 months after Wii U launch. And now with Switch, they are going even for less time between annacument and launch (in most cases), because Switch is selling great and they have steady flow of good games without drouths compared to Wii U. You again fail to see that or from some reason you don't want to see that, but all that is reason why you don't need to be worry (and why most people are not worry), "because in middle of 2017. we have "only" 3 certain games that will be released in 2018", especially if we know that that all big internal projects are in development for Switch (most of 2017. and 2018. 3DS games are done buy external teams outside Nintendo and in most cases they are smaller projects, spinoffs and remasters).

If you want we can bet, I am sure until years end, Nintendo will announced at least around 2-3 more 2018. games, so at years end we will have at least (certain) 5-6 Switch 1st party/exclusives 2018. games. Of Course in January I expecting ND again with some other new anancuments.

First, even if both Pokemon and MP4 were to be released i wouldn't be wrong because i'm only basing my expectations on Nintendo's own lack of specific release dates.
I already pointed out that the wording used for both announcements point to something recent. And with that, as i said before, no 2018 release date (= you being wrong).
I'll ask again, do you really believe that if Nintendo knew for a fact or had 2018 as a internal date, they wouldn't give it? What's stopping them? What's stopping them is that, given their own words and lack of a release date they know they won't make 2018.

You're not understanding the Federation Force example.
You said the Pokemon announcement was a reaction to the backlash caused by upset fans.
I told you that, in my opinion, it would be a bad business move. But not only that, Nintendo already had a BIGGER backlash and it didn't respond to it by revealing Metroid 3DS.
So no, i don't believe announcing Pokemon for Switch is a direct consequence of them having upset fans.

Yes, Nintendo is leaning more towards short time between reveal and announcements.
Still, one shouldn't forget Wii Fit U, Pikimin 3, Yoshi, Zelda (even if it had come out in 2015), Xenoblade, Bayonetta 2, W101, Mk8, Splatoon, Smash Brothers, Mario Maker, Starfox Zero, SMT x FE.
And with Switch, we already saw Nintendo announcing games that wouldn't come for a year, at least, like Mario, Skyrim, NBA. And even longer with Metroid and Pokemon.

The question is, Nintendo isn't shy about announcing games that are coming more than one year away. And so far, Pokemon and Metroid are proof and we could even add Fire Emblem.

I don't question now that Nintendo will announce more 2018, the same way as i expected them to do it if they didn't reveal more at E3.
The thing is, Nintendo's way isn't just revealing stuff that is coming in the next 6 months.
And it's still to early to decide on how Nintendo will reveal stuff now that 2017 is pretty much decided.



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DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yes it can be go in both ways. But have on mind that Reggie and Nintendo were hinting Metroid Prime for quite time now.

Why you ingoring fact they said they "it may not be released in more than in year" for Pokemon. Holiday 2018. is year and half after E3 2017. so defiantly its posible that can be relased in 2018. and that actually even sound like they aiming holiday 2018. release. For Metroid Prime 4, we dont know for how much is development and of course also it could be released in holiday 2018. that again is around 1.5 year after E3 2017. announcement. I can't be wrong with that because I wrote they could be released in second half of 2018. not that they will certainly be released. But you will be wrong if only one is relased in 2018. beacuse you are saying they will not be relased in 2018.

You believe whatever you want, even dispte strong point and facts. Like I wrote, Force backlash doesn't have anything with this situation, what exactly they could said after FForce backlash, certainly they didn't want to say they are working on some "NX" game when "NX" still wasn't revealed, but actualy they did start hinting Metroid Prime after FForce backlash.

 

Only Mario Tennis!? :D You have plenty of those examples for Wii U and 3DS, SM3DW was 1st time shown at E3 2013. and released in November of same year, Paper Mario: Color Splash was revealed in March 2016. and released in October, Captain Toad was announced at E3 2014. and released in December of same year, TP HD was revealed in November and relesed in March (4 monts later), WW HD was revealed in January event and released in September, Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis were revealed at E3 2015. and were released in November, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse and Mario Party 10 at E3 2014. and they were relased in February and March, Hyrule Warriors was revealed  in December and released in September...I will not even bother with 3DS games I will just mentione last example, this 3DS Pokemon was announced in June and it will be released in November, while previous one was announced in February and released in November of same year.

This is clear example how Nintendo is operating in most cases, they reveal and launch game in less than a year and like you can see there are plenty examples where they announced and released game in less than 6 months. Wii U list would have even much more examples if Wii U didnt sell terrible and Nintendo in panic mode announced most of Wii U projects they had in that time in January event just 2 months after Wii U launch. And now with Switch, they are going even for less time between annacument and launch (in most cases), because Switch is selling great and they have steady flow of good games without drouths compared to Wii U. You again fail to see that or from some reason you don't want to see that, but all that is reason why you don't need to be worry (and why most people are not worry), "because in middle of 2017. we have "only" 3 certain games that will be released in 2018", especially if we know that that all big internal projects are in development for Switch (most of 2017. and 2018. 3DS games are done buy external teams outside Nintendo and in most cases they are smaller projects, spinoffs and remasters).

If you want we can bet, I am sure until years end, Nintendo will announced at least around 2-3 more 2018. games, so at years end we will have at least (certain) 5-6 Switch 1st party/exclusives 2018. games. Of Course in January I expecting ND again with some other new anancuments.

First, even if both Pokemon and MP4 were to be released i wouldn't be wrong because i'm only basing my expectations on Nintendo's own lack of specific release dates.
I already pointed out that the wording used for both announcements point to something recent. And with that, as i said before, no 2018 release date (= you being wrong).
I'll ask again, do you really believe that if Nintendo knew for a fact or had 2018 as a internal date, they wouldn't give it? What's stopping them? What's stopping them is that, given their own words and lack of a release date they know they won't make 2018.

You're not understanding the Federation Force example.
You said the Pokemon announcement was a reaction to the backlash caused by upset fans.
I told you that, in my opinion, it would be a bad business move. But not only that, Nintendo already had a BIGGER backlash and it didn't respond to it by revealing Metroid 3DS.
So no, i don't believe announcing Pokemon for Switch is a direct consequence of them having upset fans.

Yes, Nintendo is leaning more towards short time between reveal and announcements.
Still, one shouldn't forget Wii Fit U, Pikimin 3, Yoshi, Zelda (even if it had come out in 2015), Xenoblade, Bayonetta 2, W101, Mk8, Splatoon, Smash Brothers, Mario Maker, Starfox Zero, SMT x FE.
And with Switch, we already saw Nintendo announcing games that wouldn't come for a year, at least, like Mario, Skyrim, NBA. And even longer with Metroid and Pokemon.

The question is, Nintendo isn't shy about announcing games that are coming more than one year away. And so far, Pokemon and Metroid are proof and we could even add Fire Emblem.

I don't question now that Nintendo will announce more 2018, the same way as i expected them to do it if they didn't reveal more at E3.
The thing is, Nintendo's way isn't just revealing stuff that is coming in the next 6 months.
And it's still to early to decide on how Nintendo will reveal stuff now that 2017 is pretty much decided.

No you would be wrong, you very clear wrote that those games want be out in 2018. I already wrote to you why Nintendo maybe didnt gave year of relase, beacuse they were just simple anancuments whitout any infos, probably they saving all infos for full and proper reveal of those games, like trailers, gameplay and year of release.

I also already answer you on that. Again, what exactly they could said after FForce backlash!? Certainly they didn't want to say they are working on some "NX" game when "NX" still wasn't revealed, but actualy they did start hinting Metroid Prime after FForce backlash. 

Some of those games are announced before Wii U launch, some were announced in that panic January Nintendo Direct after launch. Splatoon was also announced and released in less than a year. Mario, Skyrim, NBA are revealed at Switch reveal just 5 monts before launch, so even if is more than year from their reveal to launch its not nothing strange because on console reveal you need to show some strong and important games (of course you can reveal console that will be out in 5 months without any game). I already answer for Metroid and Pokemon anancument (and you even have Reggie quote). Again, you have plenty example that I mentione where Nintendo anancing and releasing games in less than a year and actualy good number of example that they relasing game in less than 6 monts, fact that you only mentioned Mario Tennis proves you are not aware on what degree Nintendo is working to have less time between launch and release.

Nintendo will aways have some anancumet for games that want be out in less than year, but it's obvious they are lookin to have more announcements for game that will be announced and released in less than a year, especially now with Switch. And they several time said that.

Again, like I wrote, "This is clear example how Nintendo is operating in most cases, they reveal and launch game in less than a year and like you can see there are plenty examples where they announced and released game in less than 6 months. Wii U list would have even much more examples if Wii U didnt sell terrible and Nintendo in panic mode announced most of Wii U projects they had in that time in January event just 2 months after Wii U launch. And now with Switch, they are going even for less time between annacument and launch (in most cases), because Switch is selling great and they have steady flow of good games without drouths compared to Wii U. You again fail to see that or from some reason you don't want to see that, but all that is reason why you don't need to be worry (and why most people are not worry), "because in middle of 2017. we have "only" 3 certain games that will be released in 2018", especially if we know that that all big internal projects are in development for Switch (most of 2017. and 2018. 3DS games are done buy external teams outside Nintendo and in most cases they are smaller projects, spinoffs and remasters)".

 

I dont intend to reply any more beaucuse you again started to make points on which I already answered in previous posts, so you force me to repeat. You can expect or believe whatever you want, while keep ignoring clear examples and facts.



Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but damn, there are some dumb opinions out there. Mario a "loser product". Can't even begin.



Liberate Hong Kong, the revolution of our times!

Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

 

No you would be wrong, you very clear wrote that those games want be out in 2018. I already wrote to you why Nintendo maybe didnt gave year of relase, beacuse they were just simple anancuments whitout any infos, probably they saving all infos for full and proper reveal of those games, like trailers, gameplay and year of release.

I also already answer you on that. Again, what exactly they could said after FForce backlash!? Certainly they didn't want to say they are working on some "NX" game when "NX" still wasn't revealed, but actualy they did start hinting Metroid Prime after FForce backlash. 

Some of those games are announced before Wii U launch, some were announced in that panic January Nintendo Direct after launch. Splatoon was also announced and released in less than a year. Mario, Skyrim, NBA are revealed at Switch reveal just 5 monts before launch, so even if is more than year from their reveal to launch its not nothing strange because on console reveal you need to show some strong and important games (of course you can reveal console that will be out in 5 months without any game). I already answer for Metroid and Pokemon anancument (and you even have Reggie quote). Again, you have plenty example that I mentione where Nintendo anancing and releasing games in less than a year and actualy good number of example that they relasing game in less than 6 monts, fact that you only mentioned Mario Tennis proves you are not aware on what degree Nintendo is working to have less time between launch and release.

Nintendo will aways have some anancumet for games that want be out in less than year, but it's obvious they are lookin to have more announcements for game that will be announced and released in less than a year, especially now with Switch. And they several time said that.

Again, like I wrote, "This is clear example how Nintendo is operating in most cases, they reveal and launch game in less than a year and like you can see there are plenty examples where they announced and released game in less than 6 months. Wii U list would have even much more examples if Wii U didnt sell terrible and Nintendo in panic mode announced most of Wii U projects they had in that time in January event just 2 months after Wii U launch. And now with Switch, they are going even for less time between annacument and launch (in most cases), because Switch is selling great and they have steady flow of good games without drouths compared to Wii U. You again fail to see that or from some reason you don't want to see that, but all that is reason why you don't need to be worry (and why most people are not worry), "because in middle of 2017. we have "only" 3 certain games that will be released in 2018", especially if we know that that all big internal projects are in development for Switch (most of 2017. and 2018. 3DS games are done buy external teams outside Nintendo and in most cases they are smaller projects, spinoffs and remasters)".

 

I dont intend to reply any more beaucuse you again started to make points on which I already answered in previous posts, so you force me to repeat. You can expect or believe whatever you want, while keep ignoring clear examples and facts.

I said they won't be out in 2018 for several reasons.
The most important being that Nintendo did not give them, despite giving release dates to 3 other games (Kirby, Yoshi and FE).
You can use as many quotes as you want, unless one of them says they are coming out in 2018, they are not coming out in 2018.

After the blacklash for FForce they could have revealed Metroid 3DS - seeing as FForce was actually a 3DS game.
Point being, Nintendo doesn't react to upset fans the way you said they did with Pokemon.

The question is not if they announce this long or that long before the console launch; the point is that they do announce stuff that is far ahead.
This has been my point since out conversation before E3.
I also gave several examples of them acting this way. If you choose not to see that they do this in a substantial manner, it's not my problem.

Switch also had games revealed more than one year away: Mario, NBA, Skyrim and you CAN add to that list - at least until something changes - Pokemon and Metroid.
Also, it's too early to say if Nintendo will opt more for games coming in the next 6 months/less than 12 months or more than one year.
I don't know how much stuff they have planned; i don't know how big their projects are; how they decided support for 3DS.
Don't jump into conclusions.

Don't forget that your main point in our conversation before E3 was that Nintendo only focuses on the current year (i wanted them to focus on next year!).

Bye.



RolStoppable said:

Sony trying to get a headstart is precisely the reason why Nintendo had to react, otherwise they would have faced a similar scenario to PS1 vs. N64 where Sony got their system on the market ~18 months earlier. Additionally, regardless of the GBA or the DS being the PSP's competitor, analysts predicted a win for Sony. Let's not revise history and pretend that it was a given that Nintendo was going to win.

The final noteworthy GBA release by Nintendo was Mother 3 in April 2006. The GBA launched in March 2001, so this aligns to five years of first party support, excluding Nintendo's localisations of third party titles that extended into 2007. That Nintendo shifted all of their support to the DS in a relatively short timespan is owed to the DS catching on in Japan during 2005 and starting to regularly pull off 100k+ weeks in Japan alone in early 2006. The market demanded that Nintendo put their entire focus on the DS. Gran Turismo 6 released a couple of weeks after the launch of the PS4; you might as well count The Legend of Zelda: The MInish Cap for the GBA in that case.

I know, but Mother 3 was the "only" notable GBA first party game since the end of 2004.. and you forget to mention that it came out Globally-in-Japan :P Mother is hardly noteworthy anyways.

Yes, you can count The Minish Cap, I don't see why not. Most preceding consoles retain a level of support when the new generation arrives. Beside GT6 (and off the top of my head), Sony released MLB and LBP3 as cross gen games in addition to the excellent third party support of PS3. Nintendo emphasized the "third pillar" nonsense to mislead GBA owners, and to make sure they had an alternative to resort back to in case the DS fails.

If Nintendo released a more technologically advanced DS a year after the PSP, I'm pretty sure it would have still been a massive success. Lifetime sales would've been closer to:

GBA: 100M
PSP: 90-115M
NDS: 110M-125M

GBA lagged far behind the PSP in power, but it had its 70M~ install base advantage. I don't think Nintendo had good reasons to be paranoid to the point of screwing up the GBA owners who actually care about lifespans.

And of course NDS would sell as much as it did when it has titles like Mario Kart in its first year while GBA doesn't get anything worthwhile. They abandoned the GBA as their main handheld while pretending the DS is "completely seperate". Pokoko is correct, most Nintendo fans are indifferent to lifespans. Hell, you guys care more about Nintendo's profit than anything else, so long as their game quality doesn't go down. I mean you yourself referred to Sony's making the PSP as "bullshit" to justify the early DS release.



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Kyuu said:

I know, but Mother 3 was the "only" notable GBA first party game since the end of 2004.. and you forget to mention that it came out Globally-in-Japan :P Mother is hardly noteworthy anyways.

Yes, you can count The Minish Cap, I don't see why not. Most preceding consoles retain a level of support when the new generation arrives. Beside GT6 (and off the top of my head), Sony released MLB and LBP3 as cross gen games in addition to the excellent third party support of PS3. Nintendo emphasized the "third pillar" nonsense to mislead GBA owners, and to make sure they had an alternative to resort back to in case the DS fails.

If Nintendo released a more technologically advanced DS a year after the PSP, I'm pretty sure it would have still been a massive success. Lifetime sales would've been closer to:

GBA: 100M
PSP: 90-115M
NDS: 110M-125M

GBA lagged far behind the PSP in power, but it had its 70M~ install base advantage. I don't think Nintendo had good reasons to be paranoid to the point of screwing up the GBA owners who actually care about lifespans.

And of course NDS would sell as much as it did when it has titles like Mario Kart in its first year while GBA doesn't get anything worthwhile. They abandoned the GBA as their main handheld while pretending the DS is "completely seperate". Pokoko is correct, most Nintendo fans are indifferent to lifespans. Hell, you guys care more about Nintendo's profit than anything else, so long as their game quality doesn't go down. I mean you yourself referred to Sony's making the PSP as "bullshit" to justify the early DS release.

I said the only thing that you could call bullshit is Sony throwing off the generational cycle by launching as early as they did. The impact of a headstart shouldn't be underestimated because it allows a system to build a game library before the competition arrives. The PS1 greatly benefited from this, so why should Nintendo risk that the same scenario plays out in the handheld market? Your numbers even agree that Nintendo did the right thing. You added ~20m for the GBA and deducted 30-45m from the DS while giving the PSP an increase of 10-35m units.

What's so bad about the argument that Nintendo fans don't care about lifespans is that it ignores a couple of important things:

1. Nintendo does a better job at getting their big games out early, so after three years most things are already covered.

2. Historical tie ratios show that people buy on average 6-10 games for home consoles and 3-6 games for handhelds. If it takes so few games to satisfy the average console owner and when Nintendo gets out top titles early, then it shouldn't be a mystery why satisfaction with a console purchase is reached faster among Nintendo console owners.

You want to claim that GBA owners got screwed over, but when you consider tie ratios and how many good games the GBA had, then the likelihood that your claim is true is incredibly low. The basis of your and pokoko's statements in this thread is the same: You'd like to figure out a way to say that Nintendo console owners are inherently worse than people who buy consoles of other brands.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

NawaiNey said:
Nautilus said:

Its an opinion.Its subjective.

But if you want to be as objective as possible, its widely aceppted(as in the majority agree) that Nintendo is the best developer of first party games of the big three, by quantity and quality.

It's accepted among Nintendo fans that Nintendo makes the best games, but if you actually look at the reviews, or awards and such Nintendo is no where close to being the best. 

I don't know what data you're going by, but the most top 10 most highest rated games lists are dominated by Nintendo.



Liberate Hong Kong, the revolution of our times!

I didn't expect anyone to even make a thread like this. A Third Party Nintendo software thread yes but not a first party.



Nintendo first party software problem is it brings a lot more money to Nintendo then third party. Wait, that's not a ....



OTBWY said:
NawaiNey said:

It's accepted among Nintendo fans that Nintendo makes the best games, but if you actually look at the reviews, or awards and such Nintendo is no where close to being the best. 

I don't know what data you're going by, but the most top 10 most highest rated games lists are dominated by Nintendo.

He's going by last generation (Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii). Strangely, he doesn't include Sony and Nintendo's handhelds (PSP and DS).