By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Trumpcare Would Leave 22 Million Uninsured But Give The Wealthy $250,000 Tax Break

specialk said:
Aeolus451 said:

Perhaps that is why they're becoming uninsured. Again they can just buy insurance. Nothing is gonna stop them.

Except for that whole "can't afford it" thing.

It's not universial healthcare so it's ultimately up to a person if they have health insurance or not. If they can't afford it, make more $$$. 



Around the Network

There are many reasons that the US does not have a Single Payer system in the U.S. Here are some, and not in any particular order.

 

 

  • Going to a single payer system would require a great deal of additional Tax collection. The average family only pays between 15-30 percent of their income towards taxes (not including sales tax). This of course varies by state. While most countries that have a Single Payer system will pay out close to 50% of their income towards taxes (no including sales tax). If peoples taxes were raised that high overnight you would see rioting in the streets.                    
  • People in the US demand a choice for basically everything. With the current healthcare setup the majority of Working Americans have a choice between several different levels of health coverage which range in deductable levels, coverage percentages and so on. Again, people would be outraged if they did not have a choice in this matter. Now I do understand that in a Single Payer nation people often have the option to pay for a health service that will improve the amount of options for care that they have.                                                                                                                                                                                 
  • In the US most of the cost of Insurance is paid by the employer. This allows the employees to advertise this as part of their benefits package and use it to help hiring. If company A and B have equal pay for equal work but company A has better health insurance I, like many others, would choose to work with company A. This has been built into our economy in such a way that it would detrimental to many corporation if they lost this as part of ther recruitment strategy.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
  • Due to the way the healthcare and insurance system is setup in the US the person going in for healthcare has full choice on everything that is done for them. They can choose to get a CAT scan, X-Ray, Biopsy, and whatever other expensive procedure they want to even if their only symptom is a mild cough. With a single payer system the person would not be able to make the same decisions since the needs would have to be approved and validated before the procedure is scheduled. In the US the procedure would be done based upon request and afterwards the insurance companies decide what they will and will not pay for. And as always this can be fought if you don't agree but, even if said person may end out paying for most of these extra procedures they will at least be able to get them done.                  
  • And of course there is the ever present issue of the healthcare industry and the pharmeceutical industry having large sway in government decision by way of payment, donations, bribes, and lobbying.


method114 said:
How many of the 22 million were part of the people who were forced to buy it in the first place? In my early 20's not only did I not need health care, I didn't want it, and couldn't afford it. I was working contract IT jobs a lot. I would have hated to have this forced on me.

The CBO said 15+ mil will NOT lose their coverage due to any individual mandate but the extreme cuts to Medicaid, so there you go. 



Aeolus451 said:
specialk said:

Except for that whole "can't afford it" thing.

It's not universial healthcare so it's ultimately up to a person if they have health insurance or not. If they can't afford it, make more $$$. 

So in your mind what would people do who were too poor for health insurance and couldn't just "make more $$$" at the drop of a hat?



...

NightDragon83 said:
Newsflash: There are millions of uninsured people TODAY who are forced to pay the ObamaCare "penalty" (aka TAX) because they can't afford the actual health coverage under ObamaCare, or they just don't want to spend their hard earned money on inferior healthcare that has high premiums / deductibles.

'Member when President Obama said "if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan?" Or, "if you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor?" Or even better... "the Affordable Care Act (sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little) will save the average family $2,500 a year?"

I 'member. And then it got passed and put into place, and EVERYONE'S premiums went up while insurers were either forced out of the market altogether or offered limited options through the ACA, and millions of people lost access to their preferred Drs and hospitals of choice.

Obama lied, people died.

You want to talk about lies? Motherfucker, watch me work.

Remember when Trump said (repeatedly, might I add) that he WASN'T going to cut Medicaid? The new healthcare bill cuts almost $800 bil from it. 

Remember when Trump said he wouldn't gut protections for pre-existing conditions? Low and behold, that turned out to be a steaming fucking lie as well. 

Remember when Trump said "nobody is going to be better on women's health issues than Donald Trump?" His health care plan lists rape, sexual assault, postpartum depression, C-Sections and even pregnancy as pre-existing conditions which BTW, he and the GOP left at the insurer's mercy. And guts care for women across the board. In other words, if you're a rape survivor who's been impregnated by her attacker, sad day for you under TrumpCare. 

Or better yet, remember when Trump said:

Yeah, his absolute disaster of a health care plan would leave 22 million uninsured. That's exactly 22 million less people than he said would be covered.

Compared with Trump's healthcare lies, Obama's have been rather tame in comparison. 

Oh, and about those "rising Obamacare costs":



Around the Network
Torillian said:
Aeolus451 said:

It's not universial healthcare so it's ultimately up to a person if they have health insurance or not. If they can't afford it, make more $$$. 

So in your mind what would people do who were too poor for health insurance and couldn't just "make more $$$" at the drop of a hat?

Yes.... Do we live on different planets or something? It's common sense. Work more hours, get a better job, get another job, get your spouse to work, etc. Ya know all of the solutions that normal people have for any problem related to money. 



Aeolus451 said:
Torillian said:

So in your mind what would people do who were too poor for health insurance and couldn't just "make more $$$" at the drop of a hat?

Yes.... Do we live on different planets or something? It's common sense. Work more hours, get a better job, get another job, get your spouse to work, etc. Ya know all of the solutions that normal people have for any problem related to money. 

So you're saying that everyone who is poor is by choice then. They should just work more hours or get a higher paying job. Ok, now let's say that for whatever reason they can't work more hours, they don't have a spouse, they take care of 2 kids by themselves and they don't have the time to get trained to get a better job. What would such a person do if they got sick under your proposed system?



...

Raistline said:

There are many reasons that the US does not have a Single Payer system in the U.S. Here are some, and not in any particular order.

 

 

  • Going to a single payer system would require a great deal of additional Tax collection. The average family only pays between 15-30 percent of their income towards taxes (not including sales tax). This, of course, varies by state. While most countries that have a Single Payer system will pay out close to 50% of their income towards taxes (no including sales tax). If peoples taxes were raised that high overnight you would see rioting in the streets.     
  • The countries that have close to 50% of their income towards taxes, also have things like free college.  Under Bernie Sanders plan, universal health care would have gone up around 2% and if I recall correctly, it was only for those making over 250k.               
  • People in the US demand a choice for basically everything. With the current healthcare setup the majority of Working Americans have a choice between several different levels of health coverage which range in deductable levels, coverage percentages and so on. Again, people would be outraged if they did not have a choice in this matter. Now I do understand that in a Single Payer nation people often have the option to pay for a health service that will improve the amount of options for care that they have.                    
  • So people will get upset if their only option is not only better than all of the current options but will also ensure that their children and children's children will get healthcare?  I seriously doubt it.                                                                                                                              
  • In the US most of the cost of Insurance is paid by the employer. This allows the employees to advertise this as part of their benefits package and use it to help hiring. If company A and B have equal pay for equal work but company A has better health insurance I, like many others, would choose to work with company A. This has been built into our economy in such a way that it would detrimental to many corporation if they lost this as part of ther recruitment strategy.                                                                                     
  • Companies have a lot of other options in their benefits package, 401k, vacation time, bonuses etc.  They would just replace healthcare with a different benefit, this would ultimately help everyone.                                                                                                                                                    
  • Due to the way the healthcare and insurance system is setup in the US the person going in for healthcare has full choice on everything that is done for them. They can choose to get a CAT scan, X-Ray, Biopsy, and whatever other expensive procedure they want to even if their only symptom is a mild cough. With a single payer system the person would not be able to make the same decisions since the needs would have to be approved and validated before the procedure is scheduled. In the US the procedure would be done based upon request and afterwards the insurance companies decide what they will and will not pay for. And as always this can be fought if you don't agree but, even if said person may end out paying for most of these extra procedures they will at least be able to get them done.      
  • We don't actually know what would be required, but either way, the lives of Americans far outweigh the option to get an x-ray without an approval.
  • And of course there is the ever present issue of the healthcare industry and the pharmeceutical industry having large sway in government decision by way of payment, donations, bribes, and lobbying.
  • This is the reason we don't already have it.


Something...Something...Games...Something

I prefer Randcare.



Torillian said:
Aeolus451 said:

Yes.... Do we live on different planets or something? It's common sense. Work more hours, get a better job, get another job, get your spouse to work, etc. Ya know all of the solutions that normal people have for any problem related to money. 

So you're saying that everyone who is poor is by choice then. They should just work more hours or get a higher paying job. Ok, now let's say that for whatever reason they can't work more hours, they don't have a spouse, they take care of 2 kids by themselves and they don't have the time to get trained to get a better job. What would such a person do if they got sick under your proposed system?

More or less. It's thousands of choices that lead to that person being poor and there's thousands of choices a person might contiinue to make that keep them there.  There's thousands of choices that can make you more wealthy. It's ultimately their choice if they continue to remain poor/where you're at, grow more poor and become more wealthy.  I'm tired of this speal that a person can't improve their lot in life by trying harder and making better choices in life. 

I'm all for programs that are designed to help people who are in need of it (temporarily) so they can get back on their feet or for people who are legitimately disabled.  If they can work, they can pay for it their damn selves.