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Forums - Sales Discussion - Time To Put The PS2 DVD Myth To Rest

thismeintiel said:
NATO said:
A month after the PS2 launched, the Sony 530D DVD player was being sold at $320, $20 more than a PS2, and all the 530D could do was play DVD's.

Yes, you could get DVD players for cheaper, but they were, at the time, shitty brands of the day.
A lot of the good brand DVD players still hovered around the $300+ mark, which made the functionality in the PS2 a big selling point for a LOT of people.

You can try to downplay it all you want, DVD functionality was a major draw when the PS2 launched

Now, you're just making things up.  GE, Samsung, and even Sony, had cheaper players available, as in $149-$199.  They were even cheaper on Black Friday.  They are far from shitty brands.  The only no name brand player I linked was $18 in 2004.  But, even the good brands had ones less than $50 the year prior. 

Don't talk shit.

BUDGET MODEL : April 2000 : Sony 530D , price: $300 - https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/your-1st-dvd-player-vs-1st-blu-ray-player-how-much-and-when-did-you-buy.273256/#post-3336227

BUDGET MODEL : Spring 2000 : Samsung DVD player, $365 (usd)  : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI2TxjQ8mvQ, exchange rate for that time period was $0.61 usd to the AUD

BUDGET MODEL : 19th Feb 2000 : Orion DVKT priced at $499 marketed as budget line - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/OrionDVKT/OrionDVKT.asp

BUDGET MODEL : Feb 1st, 2001 : Pioneer DV-525, as of RRP : $425 - https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Blu-ray-Disc/Pioneer-DVD-Players/DV-525

PREMIUM MODEL : 24th August 2000 : Marantz DV-18  priced as "premium" player - $2590 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Marantz18/Marantz18.asp

BUDGET MODEL : October 2000 :  AEP-803 Dvd player - "Sub $500 dvd player", price: $499 - http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/HardwareReviews/SAST803/SAST803.asp

PREMIUM MODEL : Feb 10th, 2000 : Grundig GDV 100D - $1499 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Grundig100/Grundig100.asp

BUDGET MODEL : 25th July 2000 : Toshiba SD-1200Y DVD Player - $599 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Toshiba1200/Toshiba1200.asp

BUDGET MODEL : 22nd April 2000 : Palsonic DVD-2000 : $699 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Palsonic2000/Palsonic2000.asp

BUDGET MODEL : 20th June 2000 : Denon DVD-1500, from Denons "Budget" line, price: $999 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Denon1500/Denon1500.asp

INTERMEDIATE MODEL : 8th Sept 2000 : Marantz DV-3100 DVDS player , price: $899 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Marantz3100/Marantz3100.asp

BUDGET MODEL : 14th Nov 2000 - Lenoxx DVD-9000, price: $499 - http://www.michaeldvd.com/HardwareReviews/Lenoxx9000/Lenoxx9000.asp

So yeah, "making stuff up"??, bite me.



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thismeintiel said:

 

I decided to make this thread because I have noticed a myth being thrown out there as fact on a few threads.  Mainly those talking about the PS2's sales compared to the PS4's.

The myth goes like this...When the PS2 launched in late 2000 WW, it was around the same price as a cheap DVD player, so many just picked it up to have the benefits of a DVD player, that they might decide to occassionally play games on.  It's mainly used as a way to either explain the PS2's success and/or explain why the PS4 can't match the PS2.  There's one big glaring problem with that.  It's a big, fat lie.  Well, at least an ignorance on the subject.

You see, in late 2000, you could pick up a cheap DVD player for around $150, or half the price of a PS2.  Here's a link to a blog where they were looking for the $99 DVD players announced in a Yahoo News article (sadly this is not archived), but only found ones not discounted.  Searching online, they found GE and Zenith models for ~$149, a Samsung for $160, and Walmart had a GE player for $139.  And during the holidays, especially Black Friday, you could pick up one for $99, or 1/3 the price of a PS2.  The site in the first link got a bunch of replies from their readers and wrote another article about the $99 players being available for Black Friday.

This myth gets even sillier the further you look into the PS2's lifetime.  You see DVD players dropped in price quite quickly.  By 2003, they could be bought for under $50.  Keep in mind that this was less than 1/3 the price of the then $179 PS2.  Here is a Black Friday ad from 2004, that advertises a DVD player for under $18.  That's less than 1/8th the price of the then $149 PS2.  This price thing is also silly, as it does not explain why the Xbox, which was the exact same price as the PS2, wasn't also bought as a cheap DVD player.  Are people really going to try and say that a required $30 DVD kit was all that was stopping consumers from buying the Xbox en masse?

There is something else that disproves the DVD player myth.  SW attach ratios.  It's just like how we can prove the PS3 wasn't bought by millions upon millions of for its Bluray player function.  The PS3's SW attach ratio is basically tied with the 360's, which only used a DVD drive.  If there were so many people who bought it for Bluray, the attach ratio would have been MUCH smaller.  Similarly with PS2, its attach ratio would have been much lower if 25M+ of its sales were mainly for DVD use.  Instead it is right there behind the 360 and PS3, with just one less game bought per console, at 10.5:1.  And it's attach ratio is also very similar to the Xbox's.

So, I think it is time to put this ridiculous myth to rest.  It's obvious the PS2 sold so well because it had 3 things most PS systems have.  Great price.  Great 1st party support.  Great 3rd party support.  It's the same reason the PS4 is doing so well.  Granted, I don't think the PS4 will match the PS2, but 100M+ is pretty much guaranteed.  Thoughts?

Never really thought of this. Good points. As an added thought, perhaps this is why Sony decided against putting in a UHD drive in the PS4 PRO? Perhaps they've noticed the cost doesn't bear any benefits in terms of hardware sales.



The DVD player absolutely helped it's sales early on.
You're making the mistake of only comparing prices in the U.S. What about other countries? DVD prices were crazy high at other places or even very hard to find in some of the lesser developed countries but it was easier and cheaper to get a PS2.
Also check PS2's sales in Japan for the first week and compare it with the software sales and that will show that quite a few early purchases were for DVD only.
No one can know for sure how many bought it just for a DVD though.



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Our household bought a PS2 because it was a cheap DVD player, and not for the games. I can't speak for other people, but there is definitely something to the "myth" overall.



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foodfather said:

Yeah no.
The ps2 was my first console. I mainly got it for dvds as did many other people I know. Of course it had games too ( that I didn't care for). When another dvd player came out which actually had games I thought looked good ( Halo and Splinter Cell) I picked it up.

And even then I still used it as a dvd player until around 2004 when I really started to play games.

As for the PS3 bluray argument, blurays were ridiculously overpriced and not as in demand as dvds.

I don't know what you're getting at, are you suggesting most people actually only bought PS2 for a DVD player? Then why the hell did the PS2 sell so many games? Have more exclusives than any console ever before or after it? Surely if it's high install base was mainly due to DVD's there would be a correlation of software attach rates being sub par? Except the opposite was true.






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PS2 sold because it had a huge library of great games that catered to a lot of different demographics.
It's the same reason PS1 sold a lot, and 360 and PS3 as well. It's also the reason why PS4 is dominating right now.
Consoles sell because of their gaming libraries, except Wii that thing was just weird.



PS2 was crap as a DVD player, while PS3 is a very good blu-ray player. I bought a second ps3 to use as a blu-ray player, while I always used a dedicated dvd player instead of the ps2. Early ps2 models did not support progressive scan output for DVD while ps3 had full 1080p hdmi output from launch.



I wonder what people think PS2 would have sold without a DVD player, like seriously.



Soundwave said:

I got my first DVD player (a Toshiba brand one) for about $200 in fall of 2000 when The Matrix came out, but it was on sale. 

That said if DVD was such a sales driver, why didn't it help the XBox in the same way (it was easy to give it DVD capability) or why didn't the Panasonic DVD GameCube system in Japan do great numbers?

And this is what the people who constantly spout that the PS2 only did so well because of the DVD player CAN NOT ANSWER.  The Xbox, which was the same price as the PS2 (and followed suit with all of its price cuts up to the $149 one), not only had more powerful HW, but also had a DVD player.  Yet, it didn't explode like the PS2.

-CraZed- said:

Never really thought of this. Good points. As an added thought, perhaps this is why Sony decided against putting in a UHD drive in the PS4 PRO? Perhaps they've noticed the cost doesn't bear any benefits in terms of hardware sales.

Very well could be the case.  I'm sure adding the newer tech helped with storage space with games, since they have been getting bigger.  But, I'm sure Sony also knows that there are nice features, like B/C and Netflix, that definitely add extra enjoyment to owning the system, but they are hardly the reason why people buy it.

SvennoJ said:
PS2 was crap as a DVD player, while PS3 is a very good blu-ray player. I bought a second ps3 to use as a blu-ray player, while I always used a dedicated dvd player instead of the ps2. Early ps2 models did not support progressive scan output for DVD while ps3 had full 1080p hdmi output from launch.

Yep.  I remember this well.  My son accidentally broke the tray to my PS2.  It held in there for a few more months and then just stopped working.  So, I went and got the newer version that had the yellow + in the corner of the box.  I think it just supported progressive scan and a few more video formats.  And that came out in 2003, which is when you could get a DVD player for less than $50.

Shadow1980 said:
Slarvax said:
I mean, the PS3 was the cheapest Blu-Ray player, that sure didn't affect its sales. All the proof we should need.

Crazy that gaming consoles sell depending on their gaming content.

To be fair, HDTVs were in less than 10% of U.S. households when the PS3 was announced, according to Nielsen data, and the format war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD wasn't settled yet. By time Blu-ray won the format war in early 2008, less than a year and a half after the PS3 launched, you could find Blu-ray players for $200 or less, far less than the then-current $400 price of a PS3. The PS3 was no longer the cheapest Blu-ray player. It only had that distinction for a very short time, like only a few months. And even then HDTV wouldn't be in a majority of U.S. homes until 2010. Blu-ray was never going to help the PS3's sales. Not that it would have anyway under any circumstances, because you're absolutely right that features that might increase the overall value of a system don't matter nearly as much as games and pricing. A system's price tag and games library are by far the two most important aspects that determine a system's relative success.

 

To address the OP, as for the PS2, by time it was released DVD had been out for a while. The price of the players had gone down quite a bit, and you could go to Wal-Mart and buy one for far less than the $300 asking price of a PS2. IIRC, you could find some as cheap as $99 back during the 2000 holiday season. The idea that anybody bought a PS2 primarily for the DVD functionality is totally without basis. People bought it because it was riding high on the wave of the PS1's momentum. PlayStation was a hot commodity, the biggest name in gaming where most of the biggest games could be played. By the end of 2001 it had sold over 7 million units in the U.S., and that's without a price cut. It also beat the GameCube and Xbox to market by a year, at a time when Nintendo's stock with the gaming public had fallen substantially (at least when it came to home consoles) and when nobody really knew much about the upcoming Xbox. Not only was PlayStation a strongly established brand, but the PS2 had a solid library of titles in its first year, the $300 asking price was not too steep (about $422 inflation-adjusted from Oct. 2000 dollars), and it had essentially no real competition in its first year.

Great post.  I think where people are getting confused is that many gamers used their PS2's to play DVDs a lot.  However, this doesn't mean that people were buying it for that function.  What happened is people bought it for gaming and just ended up using one of its features.  It's why DVD sales went up so much when the PS2 launched in each country.  People weren't waiting for the PS2 to buy a DVD player.  Especially not when it was at least twice the price of a cheaper player.  No, PS2 just convinced gamers to start switching over to DVD after they bought it.  If you got it, might as well use it.



People who bring up the DVD stuff sound like they never lived thru those times. Back in 2000 VHS was still the most popular medium, the big shift to DVD happened a few years after that.

Another thing to note, in Europe launch PS2 was the equivalent of 500 euro (before the currency was adopted in 2002).