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Forums - Gaming Discussion - E3 2017: Indies 'Less Relevant Now,' Says PlayStation's Jim Ryan

Mr Puggsly on 27 June 2017
Ali_16x said:
Mr Puggsly said:

So it sounds like you agree pushed for that indie movement and retro movement first. It really started on OG Xbox because MS sold small titles there as well.

The problem is developers have had is Sony wanted to own the IPs they worked with. Which is fine but it costed them support. While MS was more open to working with developers for timed or sometimes permanent exclusivity. MS was obviously more open to console exclusives which why a lot of indie content also went to PC.

The Limbo developer was one who flat out said they went to MS for the reasons I said. For a period Sony just about everything they got involved with. That changed.

My argument in a nutshell is MS made the push first. Sony made chamges for better support and MS followed.

I don't even get it, that wasn't even the main topic of this conversation and you're making it sound like you won the argument? When did I ever argue that indies didn't start on MS? You replied to something I said about MS treating indies like shit and the only reason that changed was because of what Sony did in E3 2013, and overall how they've treated indies, with no restrictions. Now what I said has nothing to do with whether or not "indies started on MS". You replied by saying that they started at MS, which really isn't a reply to what I said, and further on you said that Sony also treated indies like shit, which I've asked for proof multiple times but since I haven't gotten any, I'm going to assume you don't have any and what you said was pure conjecture.

How is Sony owning an IP bad for the indie? If they don't want to sell the IP to Sony, they don't have to. And the only time this would happen is when Sony would be publishing, which happens when the developer pitches an idea to Sony. Which is completely different from indies, you're talking about small first party games while I'm just talking about regular indies.

Lol again, how the hell is that bad for indies? You're acting like Sony wants to own literally every indie, the only one they want to own is the one the developers go to Sony and ask for money/funding which makes sense that they would want to own it. Seriously, what are you talking about? 

Here's the original thing you said that was just wrong. "Indies have gotten so successful on consoles BECAUSE of Sony."

You were just wrong, they thrived on Xbox first and Sony wanted in.

I really don't want to continue this discussion, so make your points and I'll probably ignore it.



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Mr Puggsly on 28 June 2017
twintail said:

Mr Puggsly said:

The problem is developers have had is Sony wanted to own the IPs they worked with. Which is fine but it costed them support. While MS was more open to working with developers for timed or sometimes permanent exclusivity. MS was obviously more open to console exclusives which why a lot of indie content also went to PC.

The Limbo developer was one who flat out said they went to MS for the reasons I said. For a period Sony just about everything they got involved with. That changed.

Do you have anything else besides Limbo? because Sony have run the Pub Fund service for the last 7 years which is basically them giving advanced royalities for an indie game which the indie developer still owns entirely. The only benefit for Sony is that said indie title is a time exclusive. 

If anything, history has usually shown that Sony doesnt go for IP control of an indie title but prefers time exclusive. In fact we are still seeing this through Pub Fund and even the China Hero Project. Sony goes for IP ownership with large scale games.

Indies being on PC is pretty much because of Steam, not MS. 

Everything you said came later, after the success of indie titles on Xbox.



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Mr Puggsly on 29 June 2017
twintail said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Everything you said came later, after the success of indie titles on Xbox.

But that isn't what I asked.

But that's the answer I'm giving.

Maybe your question is irrelevant and I'm keeping it on the topic I want to stay on.



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KLAMarine on 29 June 2017
Ali_16x said:
jason1637 said:

The only reason Microsoft started to treat indies good was when Sony did, same with Nintendo. Indies have gotten so successful on consoles BECAUSE of Sony. That's why the PS4 has the most indies. And even then, Sony still treats indies good, they give them so much marketing on Twitter/YouTube.

I always figured it was due to their own individual merits...

jason1637 said:
Ali_16x said:

yeah and they also restricted indies with the "launch parity" shit and I think having all indies require a publisher I think, which doesn't really make sense since an indie means independant.

Yea but still XBLA is what made indies so successful on consoles .

I think the indies themselves are due more credit for their own success than the platform they find themselves on...



Mafioso on 29 June 2017

The hubris from Sony is rich.

They used Indies like a crutch to win developer support and public sentiment, and now that they are on top they say idiotic things like this that undermine them and their importance.



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Mr Puggsly on 30 June 2017
twintail said:
Mr Puggsly said:

But that's the answer I'm giving.

Maybe your question is irrelevant and I'm keeping it on the topic I want to stay on.

So you cant really provide anything else to show that indies werent going to Sony because of IP ownership issues?

Alright then. 

During that period Sony pretty much owned everything they got involved with. Sunset Overdrive went to X1 because of similar reasons.

Sony isn't wrong for wanting to own IPs, but it will obviously push developers away.



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Mr Puggsly on 02 July 2017
twintail said:
Mr Puggsly said:

During that period Sony pretty much owned everything they got involved with. Sunset Overdrive went to X1 because of similar reasons.

Sony isn't wrong for wanting to own IPs, but it will obviously push developers away.

There are so few instances of this actually happening, and Im still yet to see anything tangible from this in regards to indies

Because you ignore trends.



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Mr Puggsly on 02 July 2017
twintail said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Because you ignore trends.

More like you have read them wrong, unless you can actually prove otherwise.

You have been unable to do that for your last few posts while you attempt to dance around the issue instead.

*Shrugs*

Okay, the support is completely miraculous inspite of breaking trends.

*Shrugs*

Doesn't matter, indie support isn't relevant anymore. I'm sure that's good news for the indies working with Sony.



Recently Completed: 
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Mr Puggsly on 02 July 2017
twintail said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Okay, the support is completely miraculous inspite of breaking trends.

*Shrugs*

Doesn't matter, indie support isn't relevant anymore. I'm sure that's good news for the indies working with Sony.

Well I guess we can agree now that your whole IP ownership with indie stance has amounted to nothing. 

And for what it is worth, Undertale will see its debut console and handeld release with Playstation. So indies are still very strong with the Sony brand, no matter how many ppl completely misunderstand what Jim Ryan is actually saying here. 

 

We can agree to disagree. :-p

Jim Ryan says dumb stuff but we have you to do damage control. You also ignore trends.



Recently Completed: 
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