It hasn't nothing to do with lack of identity. The pro was supposed to be a vr, streaming hybrid for 4K preview for higher tier consumers who wanted a higher end console. Microsoft always follows what Sony does and markets it better. Look at the Kinect. Sony knew it wouldn't be safe Or affordable to push true 4K since they develop the tech. Microsoft does not but yes Microsoft is World Class at marketing. The pro has just as much identity as the xox xas they are just consoles. What gives a console identity is what it does and the content that's put on it. Sony and Microsoft make straight forward consoles

I'll start from the standpoint of a zero hype opinion as I really don't bother with the corporate salesmanship and marketing of hardware anymore. As much as I like reading about hardware specs as well as respected software developer takes on utilization, I simply don't get caught up hype anymore because I've been following the industry for too many decades.

The PS4P came off as a hardware upgrade (rather than refresh, which typically just means design simplification in the interest of reducing BoM cost as well as a shell redesign for the purpose of marketing) primarily as a complement to PSVR. It was all there in the project codenames Neo and Morpheus. Get it? So clever.

As an added bonus and "no duh" update, it could also output 4K resolution thanks to the obligatory bump in specs. If a consumer was not interested in PSVR, to be realistic, it was a pretty vanilla release perfectly complemented by its completely vanilla packaging. Seriously: look at the box.

I didn't bother watching the XBOX E3 announcement on account of already knowing everything about the specs, so it was simply the MSRP and packaging (the plastic case) that represented hard data. The $500 MSRP was as I expected for a realistically priced mid cycle upgrade (forget the "this is an $800 gaming PC" hype), and the compact packaging was the appealing surprise that demonstrated how far MS has come with their hardware design team. Will that make anyone choose a $500 box over a $250 XBOS? Probably not. Buyers will be informed buyers and presumably playing on a 4K display.

Both have the same appeal to their respective corporate fanbases. Read: brand fanboys. While hardware producers love brand loyalty and subjective preferences and all the team sports level arguments regardless of being based upon objective numbers, the reality is general public perception absolutely trumps core niche opinion. If core niche constitutes the majority of overall sales, it is safe to say a product has failed as a product intended for the general market. That would largely describe the Wii U.

Someone quoted about 2.6 m PS4P sales after about half a year/one holiday season. I read 20% of PS4 current sales are PS4P with about 40% being upgrades from existing PS4 owners.

I would expect to see similar conversion and sales rates for the XBOX.

So the E3 reveal as always is more about hype, marketing and salesmanship, but the reality is E3 largely matters to core niche audiences and industry personnel; the general public does not sit around during the work day in eager anticipation of E3 announcements during E3 week or even watch the announcements after the fact on YouTube.

with regards to marketing... the name is pretty damn stupid.. The Xtreme box One (actually 3rd) Xtreme....

It is almost like thier marketing people believe that their is a correlation between the number of Xs in the name and how cool/ hip it is precieved as.

No way the 1X gets better support than Pro at $500 and a smaller install base, this industry don't work that way, never has.

And you think the "mass market" know or think its only kinda 4k?

You must think the mass market goes to forums too. You would be shocked.......

X1X is marketed as a 4k machine out the gate. It can play 4k Blu-Rays, has 4k Apps and is the most powerful console in the world. Thats how its advertised. The market knows what it is. I dont know what the PS4 Pro is. Its a more powerful PS4 thats it. 4k TV owners want a 4k console yet Pro doesnt offer a 4k player or true 4k on abunch of games without using checkerboarding. Go watch the Forza 7 trailer again. A 1st party game rendering true 4k with added PC features.

Let me educate you on my set-up. I have two 4k TVs in my house. My PC is in my room where i game 90% of the time. My XB1S is in my living room where i play my Xbox games and 4k movies. I dont have to rebuy the Xbox games, Have you heard of Cross Platform and Play Anywhere? thats your anwser. If i want to play my Xbox with my friends i go in the Living room to play Console Exclusives i give a damn about. If i want to continue playing 3rd party games and Blizzard games i head into my room and game there because my PC tower can only be in 1 room at a time. If i want to put on a 4k Blu Ray movie or play Xbox Live with my mates than guess where ill be going..

How do i watch my 4k movie disks in my living room? Your logic is get a Pro? haha yeah unfortunately my 4k Disks dont work in a PS4 Pro. Sadly. 

X1X plays 4k movies and games and i can couch multiplayer and game with my fellow Xbox Live friends. Logic seems to point at the X1X. 

If i want to play PS4 games so badly ill wait for PSNow on PC when they start implementing games across to it. As for a 4k machine its obvious the X1X is the better machine all round. 

So what's the point of making a new, more expensive hardware?

Pro started a precendent, Xbox X is not a "new" event. I find it is normal the reaction is not the same after people digested mid generation upgrades.

Not a fan of either, and don't like mid-gen refreshes, but Xbox One X was a vastely superior reveal conference than PS4 Pro.

Go rewatch the pro conference. It was garbage.

Mind if i ask why? I can understand a high end PC owner buying a Scorpio for their living room, but if they're going to be next to each other attached to the same device then the Scorpio seems a bit redundant. It'd just offer less flexible versions of the same games. Is it specifically for friends or something?