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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS4 Pro Holding back Xbox One X???

DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

Pretty much. Microsoft did performance profiling of the most popular game engines, so I would assume something like Frostbite or Unreal Engine should see some of the biggest gains, whilst newer custom engines could see lesser boosts. We need more information and more precedents to know just how much those gains are though.

Going over the low-level details on the Playstation 4 Pro and how long it's been on the market, the clock rate is indeed it's main improvement over the base Playstation 4. That's not to say there isn't some hidden secret sauce, it's just highly unlikely to be the case this late in the game.

Essentially in terms of CPU performance it's Xbox One X > Playstation 4 Pro > Xbox One S (If a game uses the slightly faster eSRAM for CPU tasks.) > Xbox One > Playstation 4.

We need more games to get a good idea of what developers are going to push on the Xbox One X overall compared to the Playstation 4 Pro, it's way to early to call anything definitively just yet.
But one thing is for sure, the Xbox One X is not going to have all games at 4k, 60fps and that was expected from it's initial teaser reveal over a year ago.

I understand and expect that to be quite the case. But unfortunatelly with X1X being probably very small I don't think much devs will even botter making it much better than PS4Pro.

Even if we completely ignore the performance difference between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X for a moment, the Xbox One X has also at least 50% more memory available for games (9 GB instead of 5.5 GB so far, but perhaps 9 GB instead of 6 GB if Sony reduces the OS-footprint until November). Memory bandwith is also almost 50% higher (326 instead of 218 GB/s).

That extra memory + bandwith allows using more detailed textures, so games which target for the same resolution and framerate on both consoles could look better on XBO X due to the better textures, especially on 4K-screens.

And using better textures doesn't take a hit on performance, just the memory is needed. The extra effort for the devs would be non-existant in most cases... these HD-textures already exist for the PC-versions of multi-platform games, so they just have to put these on the disc additional to the SD-textures for the XBO S version.  



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Conina said:
DonFerrari said:

I understand and expect that to be quite the case. But unfortunatelly with X1X being probably very small I don't think much devs will even botter making it much better than PS4Pro.

Even if we completely ignore the performance difference between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X for a moment, the Xbox One X has also at least 50% more memory available for games (9 GB instead of 5.5 GB so far, but perhaps 9 GB instead of 6 GB if Sony reduces the OS-footprint until November). Memory bandwith is also almost 50% higher (326 instead of 218 GB/s).

That extra memory + bandwith allows using more detailed textures, so games which target for the same resolution and framerate on both consoles could look better on XBO X due to the better textures, especially on 4K-screens.

And using better textures doesn't take a hit on performance, just the memory is needed. The extra effort for the devs would be non-existant in most cases... these HD-textures already exist for the PC-versions of multi-platform games, so they just have to put these on the disc additional to the SD-textures for the XBO S version.  

Yes, makes sense, but will be on the simple improvements that they commonly put, we were talking more on the things that they would have to work more to make it shine. We haven't seem much effort on using PS4 advantages over X1 even with PS4 outselling X1 2:1, so X1X selling like 5M total on a 150M gen doesn't seem like devs will put much effort.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Conina said:
DonFerrari said:

I understand and expect that to be quite the case. But unfortunatelly with X1X being probably very small I don't think much devs will even botter making it much better than PS4Pro.

Even if we completely ignore the performance difference between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X for a moment, the Xbox One X has also at least 50% more memory available for games (9 GB instead of 5.5 GB so far, but perhaps 9 GB instead of 6 GB if Sony reduces the OS-footprint until November). Memory bandwith is also almost 50% higher (326 instead of 218 GB/s).

That extra memory + bandwith allows using more detailed textures, so games which target for the same resolution and framerate on both consoles could look better on XBO X due to the better textures, especially on 4K-screens.

That's true as well.

As for bandwidth Scorpio could potentially drop to 218GB/s.

If a developer was memory constrained on Xbox One, Playstation 4, Playstation 4 Pro... They should love Scorpio.

Conina said:

And using better textures doesn't take a hit on performance, just the memory is needed. The extra effort for the devs would be non-existant in most cases... these HD-textures already exist for the PC-versions of multi-platform games, so they just have to put these on the disc additional to the SD-textures for the XBO S version.  

Using better textures can take a hit on performance, it's fillrate heavy.

To calculate a parts fillrate it's simply Clock Rate multiplied by Texture Mapping Units.
Scorpio has 160 Texture Mapping units with a clockrate of  1172mhz for a total of 187,520 MTexels/s.

The Texture Mapping Units are responsible for Rotating, Resizing, Distorting, Sampling of textures and applying that to a surface.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Conina said:

Even if we completely ignore the performance difference between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X for a moment, the Xbox One X has also at least 50% more memory available for games (9 GB instead of 5.5 GB so far, but perhaps 9 GB instead of 6 GB if Sony reduces the OS-footprint until November). Memory bandwith is also almost 50% higher (326 instead of 218 GB/s).

That extra memory + bandwith allows using more detailed textures, so games which target for the same resolution and framerate on both consoles could look better on XBO X due to the better textures, especially on 4K-screens.

That's true as well.

As for bandwidth Scorpio could potentially drop to 218GB/s.

If a developer was memory constrained on Xbox One, Playstation 4, Playstation 4 Pro... They should love Scorpio.

Conina said:

And using better textures doesn't take a hit on performance, just the memory is needed. The extra effort for the devs would be non-existant in most cases... these HD-textures already exist for the PC-versions of multi-platform games, so they just have to put these on the disc additional to the SD-textures for the XBO S version.  

Using better textures can take a hit on performance, it's fillrate heavy.

To calculate a parts fillrate it's simply Clock Rate multiplied by Texture Mapping Units.
Scorpio has 160 Texture Mapping units with a clockrate of  1172mhz for a total of 187,520 MTexels/s.

The Texture Mapping Units are responsible for Rotating, Resizing, Distorting, Sampling of textures and applying that to a surface.

Again we are at a wait and see position



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Yes, makes sense, but will be on the simple improvements that they commonly put, we were talking more on the things that they would have to work more to make it shine. We haven't seem much effort on using PS4 advantages over X1 even with PS4 outselling X1 2:1, so X1X selling like 5M total on a 150M gen doesn't seem like devs will put much effort.

This is a simple yet pertinent point.

The PS4 in general has sold 10m units since the release of the PS4 Pro in November 2016.  Going by reports, of those 10m units, only 2m have been PS4 Pro's.  So in the space of the first 6 months of the PS4 Pro's life, only 2m units have sold.

How many Xbox One X's do we honestly think will be sold in the first 6 months?  Well seeing as Xbox in general is selling half the number of units compared to PS4 and the One X is $100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro and the One X is double the price of the One S, do we honestly think there will be loads of units being sold?

Even if it sells similar to the PS4 Pro and sells 3-4m units in it's first 12 months on the market, do we honestly expect developers to dedicate lots of time tailoring titles to make use of the hardware?  I doubt it.



Prediction (June 12th 2017)

Permanent pricedrop for both PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro in October.

PS4 Slim $249 (October 2017)

PS4 Pro $349 (October 2017)

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davygee said:
DonFerrari said:

Yes, makes sense, but will be on the simple improvements that they commonly put, we were talking more on the things that they would have to work more to make it shine. We haven't seem much effort on using PS4 advantages over X1 even with PS4 outselling X1 2:1, so X1X selling like 5M total on a 150M gen doesn't seem like devs will put much effort.

This is a simple yet pertinent point.

The PS4 in general has sold 10m units since the release of the PS4 Pro in November 2016.  Going by reports, of those 10m units, only 2m have been PS4 Pro's.  So in the space of the first 6 months of the PS4 Pro's life, only 2m units have sold.

How many Xbox One X's do we honestly think will be sold in the first 6 months?  Well seeing as Xbox in general is selling half the number of units compared to PS4 and the One X is $100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro and the One X is double the price of the One S, do we honestly think there will be loads of units being sold?

Even if it sells similar to the PS4 Pro and sells 3-4m units in it's first 12 months on the market, do we honestly expect developers to dedicate lots of time tailoring titles to make use of the hardware?  I doubt it.

I would say PS4Pro is closer to 3M, but anyway that will make PS4Pro not cross 20M lifetime and I doubt X1X can cross 5M being 500USD and playing the same games as X1S and it's games being on PC. And sure don't expect devs to put mut into it unless incentivized by MS.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."