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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Scorpio will be the cheapest way to play PS5/Xbox 2 games.

Captain_Yuri said:
Azzanation said:

I understand what your saying however my point is that devs arent just going to use next gen as baseline. Those next gen games will also need to run on low to mid level PCs aswell and i can safely say, the new AMD tech wont be standard for PC gamers. If the games run off DX12 and Vulkan than Scorpio should be able to run it. 

Look at the Scorpio as a mid range PC. 12gigs of Ram is way above the standard GPUs for the PC world. On average PC gamers use 2 to 4gigs of video memory. i5 are also the standard CPU you will find in majority on PCs. (Those standards will slightly raise in the next couple years)

Devs arent going to jump ship and lose support for all those gamers. They will want to make it available on as many platforms as possible. If a game comes out using PS5/XB2 hardware as base, than a PC port will most likely be in the making which will have settings for low and mid range PCs. That means the Scorpio should run the same games as those PC ports. Remember DX12/Vulkan isnt going anywhere and thats where most devs will design there next gen games around.  

But here's the thing with PCs... The CPUs that the next gen consoles will get will still be far behind even mid level PC hardware. What the next gen consoles will get is a Ryzen Based APU which will be much more powerful than the current jag cpus but not even close to mid pc cpu performance. So the developers won't worry about PC hardware...

As for Scorpio's hardware, all this vram is going into resolution. So while 12gb of ram sounds huge... The problem is where is all this performance going into? And the answer is... 4k... So sure, it has 12Gb of vram but that legit means nothing because majority is just going into resolution which is easily scalable... CPUs on the otherhand are not. Also not to mention that even a 1060 can play games at 4k with xbox one's graphical settings so it's not like its that easy to compare... And yea, the i5 is the standard but it's not like APUs will perform like an i5... And not to mention that by the time these next gen consoles come around, the standard cpu's performance will continue to increase when it comes to PC... 

You do realize that this isn't the first time we have had a new console generation with a big performance boost in cpu/gpu department right? Infact we had many. The reality is that for the most part, it just doesn't matter. PC hardware moves so fast that by the time the new generation of consoles come out, the hardware is already out dated... But thanks to optimization, Consoles manage to punch above their weight where as u would need a more expensive pc to achieve similar results. Idk what dx12/vulkan has to do with anything though...

i5 CPUs are still going to be the average CPU in most PCs next year. If next gen comes out and blows that figure out of the water than awesome, however devs still have to manage to make there games work on older CPUs. XB1 and Scorpio are more like PCs. If something comes out too powerful for there machine, devs will just scale them down to operate on the Scorpio/PC.

If devs just focus on next gen console hardware than your saying PC gamers arent getting any multiplatform games. Because how many PC gamers are going to have next gen hardware specs? Devs will focus on PC just as much as they will focus on new next gen consoles because theres a majority of the market that game on PCs. 

The Scorpio may have a weak CPU compared to next gen consoles (Most likely) it will still be ravelent to play newer games. The API is a very important part of making games. If next gen still use DX12/Vulkan than coding and porting will be very easy for Scorpio. Again look at the Scorpio as a low/mid range PC when those next gen consoles come out. At this stage, the Scorpio is a med/high end PC when you consider the average PC gaming Rig. 

Dont forget PC gaming is growing rapidly every year. Which is leading Developers to want to make there games on PC just as much as consoles. Just about every 3rd party game has a PC release this generation which is alot bigger than last generatrion and that was also a very good year for PC gaming. 

Next gen PC gaming will most likely be even bigger again which will keep devs interested. Which leads us to go back to what i am saying before. Devs will want to port there games across to PCs which will mean they will have to make low end settings to run on older hardware. If there going to focus on the average PC user hardware than Scorpio wont have a problem.

Running the games wouldnt be a problem for Scorpio, Its more up to MS/Xbox if they want to continue support for Scorpio when next gen arrives. I dont believe MS believe in generation leaps anymore. That makes Coding and porting much easier. Remember MS have the UWP eco-system so most next gen games will arrive on Windows 10 PCs and will automatically be a XB1 title.



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This discussion is a waste of all of your time unless we have the slightest hint about the hardware specs (and release years) of the PS5 and Xbox 2.



Azzanation said:

Look at the Scorpio as a mid range PC. 12gigs of Ram is way above the standard GPUs for the PC world. On average PC gamers use 2 to 4gigs of video memory. i5 are also the standard CPU you will find in majority on PCs. (Those standards will slightly raise in the next couple years)

Not apples to apples I am afraid.

Scorpio has 12GB of Ram. That's it. That's for everything.
That's for the OS, that's for apps, that's for voice chat, that's for OS services, that's for audio. That's for everything. After all is said and done you have only 9GB of memory for the game itself and it's graphics.

PC has a dedicated memory pool for graphics, often included with the GPU.
And then the PC also has another memory pool for everything else not related to graphics, called system memory.

If you look at the Steam statistics, over 22% of PC's have 12GB of system memory or more. That's a larger userbase than the Xbox One in total. And that doesn't include the gigabytes of GDDR5 included with discreet GPU's.

Qwark said:
cesarmgc said:

Compare only with console CPU's!! yes :P

Than it isn't significantly more powerful than the one in the PS4 pro. It's a CPU boost comparable between the original PS4 and the PRO. So around 30% more powerful than the pro. Since its still a jaguar CPU.

What? I am hoping I am just a little bit confused... Are you suggesting that Ryzen is only roughly 30% faster than the Pro?

Snoopy said:

Sure it can. Just dial back all the constraints that won't allow the game to run on Xbox Scorpio properly. No difference between mid/low end pc running games. A 2015 gaming PC can run the new games still, you just have to dial back.

I have a 10 year old PC that can run new games still. It's going to be sub-1080P. But it can still run a large swathe of them.

Azzanation said:

It doesnt quite work like that. Sure next gen can play the games at a much higher level however old PCs can still run games today. I was running an i7 2700k and a 2gig GPU and played DOOM 2016 (which i couldnt believe i was running it, it was on low settings at 30 frames however it wasnt a broken game and i manage to play though the whole game). If Scorpio gets the support than dont be suprised that next gen games will release as waterdowned versions.

I am still running Sandy Bridge. And it can still run every single game at 60+ fps without breaking a sweat.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

Look at the Scorpio as a mid range PC. 12gigs of Ram is way above the standard GPUs for the PC world. On average PC gamers use 2 to 4gigs of video memory. i5 are also the standard CPU you will find in majority on PCs. (Those standards will slightly raise in the next couple years)

Not apples to apples I am afraid.

Scorpio has 12GB of Ram. That's it. That's for everything.
That's for the OS, that's for apps, that's for voice chat, that's for OS services, that's for audio. That's for everything. After all is said and done you have only 9GB of memory for the game itself and it's graphics.

PC has a dedicated memory pool for graphics, often included with the GPU.
And then the PC also has another memory pool for everything else not related to graphics, called system memory.

If you look at the Steam statistics, over 22% of PC's have 12GB of system memory or more. That's a larger userbase than the Xbox One in total. And that doesn't include the gigabytes of GDDR5 included with discreet GPU's.


Qwark said:

Than it isn't significantly more powerful than the one in the PS4 pro. It's a CPU boost comparable between the original PS4 and the PRO. So around 30% more powerful than the pro. Since its still a jaguar CPU.

What? I am hoping I am just a little bit confused... Are you suggesting that Ryzen is only roughly 30% faster than the Pro?

Snoopy said:

Sure it can. Just dial back all the constraints that won't allow the game to run on Xbox Scorpio properly. No difference between mid/low end pc running games. A 2015 gaming PC can run the new games still, you just have to dial back.

I have a 10 year old PC that can run new games still. It's going to be sub-1080P. But it can still run a large swathe of them.

Azzanation said:

It doesnt quite work like that. Sure next gen can play the games at a much higher level however old PCs can still run games today. I was running an i7 2700k and a 2gig GPU and played DOOM 2016 (which i couldnt believe i was running it, it was on low settings at 30 frames however it wasnt a broken game and i manage to play though the whole game). If Scorpio gets the support than dont be suprised that next gen games will release as waterdowned versions.

I am still running Sandy Bridge. And it can still run every single game at 60+ fps without breaking a sweat.

Yes it is slightly different on PC but not enough to exclude the possibilities to run next gen games on a 6tf console. 12gigs of Vram is more than any GPU available at this time on PCs unless we are talking way above $1000. Yes PCs use different pools however devs will mostly likely still use 4gigs to 6gigs of Vram for gaming. Which is more than enough for Scorpio to supply if they dont have to render 4k.

Today games only require 2gigs to 4gigs of video memory for the average customer. i dont see that number doubling anytime soon. Maybe bump up to 6gigs in the next couple of years. 

Note i am referring to the minimal specs required, not the recommanded specs which use 6 and above.



cesarmgc said:
Ryzen is x10 times better than any CPU right now...

actually in single core performance they lose against a lot of intel cpu's from the last 5 years, you are also comparing DESKTOP ryzen, the chances we will see a desktop high performance cpu in a console is very unlikely, I hope we do, the price would be higher and it would be better for the pc market.




Twitter @CyberMalistix

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It is pretty much guaranteed that they will support two consoles, if/when they introduce the next gen. As far as I know, that has happened every time anybody has released a new console. Further, nearly all big games in the first year, sometimes the first couple, are released on both. Further still, MS has shown that they're committed to being the lower-priced of the Sony/MS systems this gen (after they ditched the Kinect). Given all of this, I'd say that the OP iscorrect.



PS5/XB2 will likely be cheaper than Scorpio when they release. So what's the point of buying a Scorpio now?
Is it because you care about graphics fidelity enough to spend money on buying an upgraded version of a console you already own? If you care about graphics that much then why would you be playing next gen games on Scorpio when they release and look far inferior on the Scorpio with likely missing features like PS3/360 were getting for the cross gen games? I mean money is obviously not an issue for someone who's going to get a Scorpio now. So who is this console targeting exactly?



NawaiNey said:
PS5/XB2 will likely be cheaper than Scorpio when they release. So what's the point of buying a Scorpio now?
Is it because you care about graphics fidelity enough to spend money on buying an upgraded version of a console you already own? If you care about graphics that much then why would you be playing next gen games on Scorpio when they release and look far inferior on the Scorpio with likely missing features like PS3/360 were getting for the cross gen games? I mean money is obviously not an issue for someone who's going to get a Scorpio now. So who is this console targeting exactly?

Since PCs and Consoles are moving ever closer togheter the question when to upgrade is the same as it is for pc users.

Should you buy a 1080Ti or 1080 now or wait for the next Nvidia lineup? go with ryzen now or wait for ryzen 2?

simple answer: tech is outdated when you buy it but you shouldn't wait to move to the next console or pc component. Scorpio asks the question do you want 4k visuals and the best console performance in games coming to that platform if the answer is yes then buy it. Waiting on tech is never a good idea, just enjoy the tech you have or want.

Its also very reasonable to assume the next generation will aim for 4k so the sooner developers join to make games running with 4k assets the better and the scorpio really kicks this off in a big way because of the memory amount and bandwith so in that light its always super fun to be one of the first to see these new technologies being used in games and in the past this was always reserved to high end pc owners and this is a great time for console players who felt left behind in the past.




Twitter @CyberMalistix

VAMatt said:

It is pretty much guaranteed that they will support two consoles, if/when they introduce the next gen. As far as I know, that has happened every time anybody has released a new console. Further, nearly all big games in the first year, sometimes the first couple, are released on both. Further still, MS has shown that they're committed to being the lower-priced of the Sony/MS systems this gen (after they ditched the Kinect). Given all of this, I'd say that the OP iscorrect.

Yeah, the 2013 Wii support had been great... or the 2017 Wii U support.



Pemalite said:
Captain_Yuri said:

But resolution/textures have nothing to do with cpu power... If the ps5/xb2 uses ryzen based apus, then ipc wise, it will get around 40-50% uplift in performance per core... Assuming devs will make their games around the increase, the scorpio won't have enough horse power in the cpu department to run many of those games...

I would expect more. Jaguar is an evolutionary update to Bobcat found in Brazos.
It's only a dual issue CPU architecture. AMD's FX makes a mockery of Jaguar... And Ryzen makes a mockery of FX.

Plus Jaguar can't scale in clocks very well due to various architectural choices and using transistors optimised for power consumption rather than clockrate.

I would expect the next generation consoles to use Ryzens successor anyway, Zen+. And by hacking away at that massive L2 and L3 cache, it should be small and cheap enough for next gen as Ryzens CPU cores are actually pretty small. Not Jaguar/Puma/Puma+ small, but on a newer process it should be good enough.

Well, going by single thread ratings from Passmark and little clock for clock math, I think around 50% better IPC is fair assessment. But even if it's only that much, I really doubt next gen consoles will have such anemic clocks, so with 10nm parts inside as minimum, it's fair to say that we'll be looking at least at some 3x in CPU performance.

But overall, I do think that Scorpio will be able to pull off most nextgen games.