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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Scorpio will be the cheapest way to play PS5/Xbox 2 games.

Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 11 June 2017
Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

But resolution/textures have nothing to do with cpu power... If the ps5/xb2 uses ryzen based apus, then ipc wise, it will get around 40-50% uplift in performance per core... Assuming devs will make their games around the increase, the scorpio won't have enough horse power in the cpu department to run many of those games...

It doesnt quite work like that. Sure next gen can play the games at a much higher level however old PCs can still run games today. I was running an i7 2700k and a 2gig GPU and played DOOM 2016 (which i couldnt believe i was running it, it was on low settings at 30 frames however it wasnt a broken game and i manage to play though the whole game). If Scorpio gets the support than dont be suprised that next gen games will release as waterdowned versions.

My take is if next gen happens in the next 2 years and that the foundation of Scorpio is very good. Digital Foundry were mind blowned when they saw it. There are very good signs so far for the system.

Also i dont believe Developers will just straight up jump on the new next gen numbers. Thanks to the growing PC community Devs will obveriouly want there games to run on PCs aswell and will require them to base there level of performance off the average PC user. The next Xbox 2 will most likely be a boosted Scorpio (Like a PC Upgrade) where all the games will share the same eco system. Not sure with PS5. My guess it will be your normal Generation jump where they will start fresh, however by doing that means you lose alot of the past benefits. 

Actually, it doesn't work the way you are suggesting due to the way that console optimization works. Developers always develop/optimize for baseline hardware and they don't bother with scaling very much on consoles. What you are suggesting is that the developers will use Scorpio as their baseline hardware and they will scale up with Ps5/x2 which would be nonsense. And if you are suggesting that they would scaledown to Scorpio and use ps5/x2 as base level hardware, that would also be nonsense due to the performance uplift of base level hardware. The reason is the entire point of a new generation is to have base level hardware which the developers can optimize on. So if the developers will use the ps5/x2 as baseline hardware, they will take advantage of the performance uplift which the Jag won't be able to keep up with.

Yes, we have games which do fine with older hardware like an i7 but that is also due to most games not taking advantage of the wealth of performance pc hardware delivers because it is being held back by console hardware. But when the next gen get that uplift, developers will use that ryzen based cpu to it's full potential and running games on old hardware at playable framerates won't be as possible. At least for high demanding games anyway.



                  

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Insidb on 11 June 2017
onionberry said:
Snoopy said:

PS5 CPU and Xbox 2 CPU won't be much better. Xbox scorpio CPU is by far the best CPU for consoles right now.

Scorpio has a custom jaguar cpu, just like the xbox one and ps4. FAR from "the best cpu" for consoles, actually, we have mobile cpus better than that. Right now we have better architectures and 2 or 3 years from now we will have better stuff. so yeah, hopefully the next console generation is not going to be held back by the shitty cpus of this generation.

Yuuuuuup.



cesarmgc on 11 June 2017
Pemalite said:
cesarmgc said:
Ryzen is x10 times better than any CPU right now...

It's not. But okay. Unless you are only comparing Ryzen against the console CPU's?

 

Compare only with console CPU's!! yes :P



In Sony We Trust!

 

Azzanation on 11 June 2017
Captain_Yuri said:
Azzanation said:

It doesnt quite work like that. Sure next gen can play the games at a much higher level however old PCs can still run games today. I was running an i7 2700k and a 2gig GPU and played DOOM 2016 (which i couldnt believe i was running it, it was on low settings at 30 frames however it wasnt a broken game and i manage to play though the whole game). If Scorpio gets the support than dont be suprised that next gen games will release as waterdowned versions.

My take is if next gen happens in the next 2 years and that the foundation of Scorpio is very good. Digital Foundry were mind blowned when they saw it. There are very good signs so far for the system.

Also i dont believe Developers will just straight up jump on the new next gen numbers. Thanks to the growing PC community Devs will obveriouly want there games to run on PCs aswell and will require them to base there level of performance off the average PC user. The next Xbox 2 will most likely be a boosted Scorpio (Like a PC Upgrade) where all the games will share the same eco system. Not sure with PS5. My guess it will be your normal Generation jump where they will start fresh, however by doing that means you lose alot of the past benefits. 

Actually, it doesn't work the way you are suggesting due to the way that console optimization works. Developers always develop/optimize for baseline hardware and they don't bother with scaling very much on consoles. What you are suggesting is that the developers will use Scorpio as their baseline hardware and they will scale up with Ps5/x2 which would be nonsense. And if you are suggesting that they would scaledown to Scorpio and use ps5/x2 as base level hardware, that would also be nonsense due to the performance uplift of base level hardware. The reason is the entire point of a new generation is to have base level hardware which the developers can optimize on. So if the developers will use the ps5/x2 as baseline hardware, they will take advantage of the performance uplift which the Jag won't be able to keep up with.

Yes, we have games which do fine with older hardware like an i7 but that is also due to most games not taking advantage of the wealth of performance pc hardware delivers because it is being held back by console hardware. But when the next gen get that uplift, developers will use that ryzen based cpu to it's full potential and running games on old hardware at playable framerates won't be as possible. At least for high demanding games anyway.

I understand what your saying however my point is that devs arent just going to use next gen as baseline. Those next gen games will also need to run on low to mid level PCs aswell and i can safely say, the new AMD tech wont be standard for PC gamers. If the games run off DX12 and Vulkan than Scorpio should be able to run it. 

Look at the Scorpio as a mid range PC. 12gigs of Ram is way above the standard GPUs for the PC world. On average PC gamers use 2 to 4gigs of video memory. i5 are also the standard CPU you will find in majority on PCs. (Those standards will slightly raise in the next couple years)

Devs arent going to jump ship and lose support for all those gamers. They will want to make it available on as many platforms as possible. If a game comes out using PS5/XB2 hardware as base, than a PC port will most likely be in the making which will have settings for low and mid range PCs. That means the Scorpio should run the same games as those PC ports. Remember DX12/Vulkan isnt going anywhere and thats where most devs will design there next gen games around.  



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 11 June 2017
Azzanation said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Actually, it doesn't work the way you are suggesting due to the way that console optimization works. Developers always develop/optimize for baseline hardware and they don't bother with scaling very much on consoles. What you are suggesting is that the developers will use Scorpio as their baseline hardware and they will scale up with Ps5/x2 which would be nonsense. And if you are suggesting that they would scaledown to Scorpio and use ps5/x2 as base level hardware, that would also be nonsense due to the performance uplift of base level hardware. The reason is the entire point of a new generation is to have base level hardware which the developers can optimize on. So if the developers will use the ps5/x2 as baseline hardware, they will take advantage of the performance uplift which the Jag won't be able to keep up with.

Yes, we have games which do fine with older hardware like an i7 but that is also due to most games not taking advantage of the wealth of performance pc hardware delivers because it is being held back by console hardware. But when the next gen get that uplift, developers will use that ryzen based cpu to it's full potential and running games on old hardware at playable framerates won't be as possible. At least for high demanding games anyway.

I understand what your saying however my point is that devs arent just going to use next gen as baseline. Those next gen games will also need to run on low to mid level PCs aswell and i can safely say, the new AMD tech wont be standard for PC gamers. If the games run off DX12 and Vulkan than Scorpio should be able to run it. 

Look at the Scorpio as a mid range PC. 12gigs of Ram is way above the standard GPUs for the PC world. On average PC gamers use 2 to 4gigs of video memory. i5 are also the standard CPU you will find in majority on PCs. (Those standards will slightly raise in the next couple years)

Devs arent going to jump ship and lose support for all those gamers. They will want to make it available on as many platforms as possible. If a game comes out using PS5/XB2 hardware as base, than a PC port will most likely be in the making which will have settings for low and mid range PCs. That means the Scorpio should run the same games as those PC ports. Remember DX12/Vulkan isnt going anywhere and thats where most devs will design there next gen games around.  

But here's the thing with PCs... The CPUs that the next gen consoles will get will still be far behind even mid level PC hardware. What the next gen consoles will get is a Ryzen Based APU which will be much more powerful than the current jag cpus but not even close to mid pc cpu performance. So the developers won't worry about PC hardware...

As for Scorpio's hardware, all this vram is going into resolution. So while 12gb of ram sounds huge... The problem is where is all this performance going into? And the answer is... 4k... So sure, it has 12Gb of vram but that legit means nothing because majority is just going into resolution which is easily scalable... CPUs on the otherhand are not. Also not to mention that even a 1060 can play games at 4k with xbox one's graphical settings so it's not like its that easy to compare... And yea, the i5 is the standard but it's not like APUs will perform like an i5... And not to mention that by the time these next gen consoles come around, the standard cpu's performance will continue to increase when it comes to PC... 

You do realize that this isn't the first time we have had a new console generation with a big performance boost in cpu/gpu department right? Infact we had many. The reality is that for the most part, it just doesn't matter. PC hardware moves so fast that by the time the new generation of consoles come out, the hardware is already out dated... But thanks to optimization, Consoles manage to punch above their weight where as u would need a more expensive pc to achieve similar results. Idk what dx12/vulkan has to do with anything though...



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

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ironmanDX on 11 June 2017

That was the consensus... Before scorpio was revealed, anyway. It's changed by the looks of things.



Mr Puggsly on 11 June 2017
Snoopy said:

I believe Microsoft will support two consoles at a time and xbox scorpio will be the cheapest way to play PS5 and Xbox 2 when they release.

Yeah, I've been arguing this point since Scropio was announced.

I think the power disparity is so big that its possible Scropio and Xbox 2 will share games. While the OG X1 will be phased out if developers choose.

Many AAA games will have to ditch OG hardware, but there are so many games like indie content that would work fine on OG hardware.



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SkyerIst_Huiesos on 11 June 2017

nope, the cheapiest way will be ps4 pro



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Qwark on 11 June 2017
cesarmgc said:
Pemalite said:

It's not. But okay. Unless you are only comparing Ryzen against the console CPU's?

 

Compare only with console CPU's!! yes :P

Than it isn't significantly more powerful than the one in the PS4 pro. It's a CPU boost comparable between the original PS4 and the PRO. So around 30% more powerful than the pro. Since its still a jaguar CPU.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Aeolus451 on 11 June 2017

I imagine that the PS5 and xbox whatever will cost around 500$ when they launch. They will likely be more powerful than scorpio. You also have to consider that most games being released around the launch of new consoles are typically playable on the previous gen's consoles. The PS4 pro would be cheaper than scorpio or the new gen consoles. It would be better for someone to invest their money into the next gen versus buying upgraded versions of the previous gens.