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Forums - General Discussion - 73 years ago today, the liberation of Europe began.

ArnoldRimmer said:
97alexk said:

Yes, jews died in the second world war, ofc. Nazis killed some jews, but the whole mass killing through the events that how they played out never happened like everyone say they did because there is not enough evidence. After second world war and the sovjets came in, it was actually seen by some pictures i beleive that they themself were buildiing gas chambers too dirty play germany and get the propaganda for the war in sovjet union, too fool them. Then afterwards it became a huge that that everyone said that the germans did. Nazi germany had labor camps yes, and there were jews in them. But most of these labor camps have been confirmed to have, playgrounds, cafeteria and even other things. The pictures and videos you see of the jews being skinny is because of the desease Typhus, which was very common in those camps and in those conditions in general, you can look it up. There is more evidence now that can be showed against the holoaust then for it. Way more, and its still hard for me to believe. But im no neo-nazi or anything, i just seek the truth. And my logical conclusion would be to judge everything, regardless!

I agree that one should remain at least a little sceptical. Everyone knows the well known quotes that "truth is the first casualty of war", "history is written by the victors" etc., yet we somehow still tend to take the official version as facts.

Personally, I only got sceptical a few years ago, when I learnt that "only" about 1.2 million people had died in Auschwitz. As part of my school education in Germany in the 1990s, I still learnt that about 4.2 million people had died in Auschwitz alone. Back at the time, I found that number so shocking that it burnt deeply into my brain; and for many years, I considered that number to be something like an undeniable fact, probably also due to the fact that the number we learned wasn't even rounded, but accurate up to the last digit (which suggested that the number was very well examined).

Then, about 10 years back, I somewhere read that 1.2 million people died in Auschwitz. Given that I was absolutely sure about that number actually being about 4.2 million, I got quite confused and believed that 1.2 million number to be a mistake - but somehow, wherever I looked it up, in Wikipedia etc., the official number was now said to be "only" about 1.2 million. I almost couldn't believe it: How could a number that I learnt during my school education just a few years ago, and that burnt deeply into my brain be so far off (about 3 million or 250%) the truth? When I read more about it, I learned that the 4.2 million number was highly exaggerated and spread by the soviets, and was probably just propaganda meant to make the defeated Nazis look even more evil than they were (considering the insanely high number of casualties the soviets suffered due to the Nazis, I guess that's even somewhat understandable). Apparently, the 4.2 million number was long considered to be official number, and it took until the late 1980s/early 1990s that the fact that the actual number was much lower slowly became common knowledge (afaik, this was mainly due to a single sceptical and brave historian who prove that the true number must be much lower).

Back then I realized: If even the official number of Auschwitz deaths can be a whole 3 million or 250% off the truth without people realizing for over 40 years, then there is more than enough reason to at least be sceptical about other parts of the WW2 narrative as well, as they might just as well be propaganda by the victors. And I also suddenly understood why some so-called "holocaust deniars" would be sceptical about the official number of "6 million jews" that died during the holocaust: If the official number of people who died in Auschwitz basically dropped by a whole 3 million people from one day to the other - wouldn't the official number of jews who died during the holocaust then have to be (at least slightly) reduced as well then due to that insight? There might be a completely logical explanation for why that number remains correct, but it's easy to see why some people who are aware of that sudden disappearance of 3 million Auschwitz deaths have trouble believing that this did not change the number of jews who died during the holocaust at all. Especially since that sudden disappearance of 3 million Auschwitz deaths was never a big issue in the german media (which is quite astonishing, given the fact that Auschwitz is such a major part of the german identity).

What school did you go to in the 1990's? what country? Im interested to make a revisionist thread to discuss here



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Leadified said:
I don't think this thread title is accurate, even if you only consider the Western Allies. The Invasion of Italy started a year earlier which knocked Italy out of the war and opened a new front that allowed D-Day to be possible.

At best, it was on shaky ground. Yes, they liberated Rome on June 4th, but for the most part the allies were still fighting in Italy when Germany surrendered. The front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin (and knock germany out of the war) was established on D-Day.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

Mummelmann said:
The fight to liberate Europe started in 1939...

I don't think so. The allies sat on their thumb till Scandinavia and France fell. Only when the solders were just across the English channel (which is like 30 km away from Britain) did they realize they were in big trouble. Blame Chamberlain who acted like a pushover with Austria and then handing over Czechoslovakia in Munich.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

barneystinson69 said:
Leadified said:
I don't think this thread title is accurate, even if you only consider the Western Allies. The Invasion of Italy started a year earlier which knocked Italy out of the war and opened a new front that allowed D-Day to be possible.

At best, it was on shaky ground. Yes, they liberated Rome on June 4th, but for the most part the allies were still fighting in Italy when Germany surrendered. The front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin (and knock germany out of the war) was established on D-Day.

No, the front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin was established the moment Hitler attacked the Soviet Union... I have huge respect for the efforts of the western allies, but the allies literally rushed past occupied territory to make sure the USSR didn't reach Berlin alone.



Teeqoz said:
barneystinson69 said:

At best, it was on shaky ground. Yes, they liberated Rome on June 4th, but for the most part the allies were still fighting in Italy when Germany surrendered. The front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin (and knock germany out of the war) was established on D-Day.

No, the front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin was established the moment Hitler attacked the Soviet Union... I have huge respect for the efforts of the western allies, but the allies literally rushed past occupied territory to make sure the USSR didn't reach Berlin alone.

That isn't true. The Soviets were on the defensive till 43 when the Nazis lost at Stalingrad and then Kursk, and do you think the Soviets were actually liberating? They "liberated" Eastern Europe, only to become just as oppressive and totalitarian as the Nazis. 



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

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barneystinson69 said:
Teeqoz said:

No, the front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin was established the moment Hitler attacked the Soviet Union... I have huge respect for the efforts of the western allies, but the allies literally rushed past occupied territory to make sure the USSR didn't reach Berlin alone.

That isn't true. The Soviets were on the defensive till 43 when the Nazis lost at Stalingrad and then Kursk, and do you think the Soviets were actually liberating? They "liberated" Eastern Europe, only to become just as oppressive and totalitarian as the Nazis. 

Here's what you said:

barneystinson69 said:

The front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin (and knock germany out of the war) was established on D-Day.

Which isn't true. It was the eastern front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin.



Teeqoz said:
barneystinson69 said:

That isn't true. The Soviets were on the defensive till 43 when the Nazis lost at Stalingrad and then Kursk, and do you think the Soviets were actually liberating? They "liberated" Eastern Europe, only to become just as oppressive and totalitarian as the Nazis. 

Here's what you said:

barneystinson69 said:

The front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin (and knock germany out of the war) was established on D-Day.

Which isn't true. It was the eastern front that allowed the allies to reach Berlin.

I should've specified that I was talking about the Western Allies.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

spurgeonryan said:
RolStoppable said:
Austria would rule the world today, if this didn't happen.

As part of your protection squad,  I approve this post.  But tread lightly. 

He posted that weeks ago.



spurgeonryan said:
VGPolyglot said:

He posted that weeks ago.

I cannot protect you as well polygon,  just behave. 

 

@thread

 

Always amazes me that there were two wars.. World wars with the same country. 

I don't think I need protection from being banned