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JWeinCom said:
TargaryenVers2 said:

Again, many of those in power use feelings instead of logic to dictate political decisions, because they are voted by the people, which also use gut feelings and what they think is "gross," which is why many states in the US still lags behind regarding lgbt rights (as well as climate change, healthcare, etc), as well as for the longest time racial and sex inequality.

I'm fine with individuals thinking I'm gross, I couldn't care less. The problem is those discomforts internalize for many people and change voting patterns for people that ultimately lead to negative consequences for the lgbt community. 

How do you suggest then that you change those discomforts?  I can think of ways to change laws and make logical arguments, but I really can't think of a way to change those kinds of things.

Same way many other movements have: make it culturally normalized where people don't get grossed out or think much about it, true equality. This can be done with logical appeals, but that won't work on many voters, you have to continue the cultural presence and continue having people come out to family and friends to show how it doesn't change or define a person.

The more it's in culture, the more comfortable people are with it



(Formerly RCTjunkie)

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VGPolyglot said:
chakkra said:

Well, I'm a bisexual man.  And when I was growing up I used to go through phases where I used to find one of the two genders repulsive.

 

When I was going thru the phase of finding men repulsive I used to feel happy because I thought that I had been "cured" of my gayness.  But then I would go back to the other side and then I felt depressed.

 

But anyway, nowadays when I see a straight person being grossed out by the image of two gays having sex, I understand them, because I've been there.  And viceversa.

So, do you still go through phases? Or are you sexually attracted by both now?

Nope. Not anymore.  And thank goodness because that used to be really frustrating. 

Nowadays I feel more attracted to men.  If I had to put a number on me, I would say I am 70% gay.



TargaryenVers2 said:
Safiir said:

I'm not convinced that's true. Rather those people are actually really homophobes or/and they're appealing to homophobic voters.

Prop 8 is a prime example of how anti-lgbt laws can get passed through appealing to "not" homophobic people. The strong appeal towards "preserving" traditional marriage and the "think about the children" message resignated with a lot of people that were on the fence or didn't think about the issue, enough for it to pass and take away marriage equality. People on the fence that voted yes thought about their personal discomforts and it influencd their votes.

It's amazing how quickly people forget about how much struggling and cultural battles the lgbt community faced because people "felt grossed out" by them

Did the suffragettes have it easy to win voting rights for women because men didn't find their sexual activities gross? Dude, challenging social dogmas has nothing to do with likes and dislikes.



You are definitely homophobic, but in a different way than how people paint homophobics. In its purest form maybe - fear or dislike of homosexuality displaying constitutes your phobia. That you correlates homosexuality with beastiality is definitely a problem.

Disgust induces revulsion, offensiveness, and to a certain degree, aversion and distaste. Those are the very feelings that nourish hate crime, that root it in troubled minds. I do not assert that you will commit one, but your reaction is symptomatical of a social paradigm that entertains repugnance of homosexual relationships. You have to understand that it is in no way a natural, yet acceptable, reaction to same-sex relationship. If you were homosexual yourself, would it be sustainable for you to be disgusted by the thought of a man fucking a woman? You might not be into it, but it does not warrant vomit-inducing reactions. You definitely have a problem that needs to be solved (through experimentation, maybe? ;) )

Btw, anal sex is very popular among heterosexuals as well. I can find you studies about that, and since there are more hetero than gay people in the world, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that anal sex is most likely performed by hetero people. It is in no way a gay-exclusive practice, and it needs to be dissociated from gay sexual prejudices and dogmas. Anal sex doesn't define us, nor vaginal sex define you. Some perform oral sex, other perform BDSM... Penetration isn't an end in itself.

So yup, you are homophobic. And in order to remedy to that (you wouldn't have posted about it otherwise), you need to question yourself about your preconceptions of what makes something a gay relationship. What is a gay relationship? Bareback sex? Or really just two people of the same gender sharing the same experience as you do with your gf?

It's like saying you're not racist because you have black friends. Sorry, but that does not make you less racist. Agitation, repel, anger, anything that might fuel fear must be wiped off.



guiduc said:

You are definitely homophobic, but in a different way than how people paint homophobics. In its purest form maybe - fear or dislike of homosexuality displaying constitutes your phobia. That you correlates homosexuality with beastiality is definitely a problem.

Disgust induces revulsion, offensiveness, and to a certain degree, aversion and distaste. Those are the very feelings that nourish hate crime, that root it in troubled minds. I do not assert that you will commit one, but your reaction is symptomatical of a social paradigm that entertains repugnance of homosexual relationships. You have to understand that it is in no way a natural, yet acceptable, reaction to same-sex relationship. If you were homosexual yourself, would it be sustainable for you to be disgusted by the thought of a man fucking a woman? You might not be into it, but it does not warrant vomit-inducing reactions. You definitely have a problem that needs to be solved (through experimentation, maybe? ;) )

Btw, anal sex is very popular among heterosexuals as well. I can find you studies about that, and since there are more hetero than gay people in the world, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that anal sex is most likely performed by hetero people. It is in no way a gay-exclusive practice, and it needs to be dissociated from sexual prejudices and dogmas. Anal sex doesn't define us, nor vaginal sex define you. Some perform oral sex, other perform BDSM... Penetration isn't an end in itself.

So yup, you are homophobic. And in order to remedy to that (you wouldn't have posted about it otherwise), you need to question yourself about your preconceptions of what makes something a gay relationship. What is a gay relationship? Bareback sex? Or really just two people of the same gender sharing the same experience as you do with your gf?

It's like saying you're not racist because you have black friends. Sorry, but that does not make you less racist. Agitation, repel, anger, anything that might fuel fear must be wiped off.

Again - if you find watching two ugly/fat/old people have sex disgusting does that make you uglophob/fatofob/oldofob (yeah I just made those up)? You don't have to like something in order to accept it. And tbh suggesting this kind of thought policing is extremely disturbing. Everyone has the right to think anything as long as they don't act on those thoughts in a harmful manner.



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Safiir said:
guiduc said:

You are definitely homophobic, but in a different way than how people paint homophobics. In its purest form maybe - fear or dislike of homosexuality displaying constitutes your phobia. That you correlates homosexuality with beastiality is definitely a problem.

Disgust induces revulsion, offensiveness, and to a certain degree, aversion and distaste. Those are the very feelings that nourish hate crime, that root it in troubled minds. I do not assert that you will commit one, but your reaction is symptomatical of a social paradigm that entertains repugnance of homosexual relationships. You have to understand that it is in no way a natural, yet acceptable, reaction to same-sex relationship. If you were homosexual yourself, would it be sustainable for you to be disgusted by the thought of a man fucking a woman? You might not be into it, but it does not warrant vomit-inducing reactions. You definitely have a problem that needs to be solved (through experimentation, maybe? ;) )

Btw, anal sex is very popular among heterosexuals as well. I can find you studies about that, and since there are more hetero than gay people in the world, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that anal sex is most likely performed by hetero people. It is in no way a gay-exclusive practice, and it needs to be dissociated from sexual prejudices and dogmas. Anal sex doesn't define us, nor vaginal sex define you. Some perform oral sex, other perform BDSM... Penetration isn't an end in itself.

So yup, you are homophobic. And in order to remedy to that (you wouldn't have posted about it otherwise), you need to question yourself about your preconceptions of what makes something a gay relationship. What is a gay relationship? Bareback sex? Or really just two people of the same gender sharing the same experience as you do with your gf?

It's like saying you're not racist because you have black friends. Sorry, but that does not make you less racist. Agitation, repel, anger, anything that might fuel fear must be wiped off.

Again - if you find watching two ugly/fat/old people have sex disgusting does that make you uglophob/fatofob/oldofob (yeah I just made those up)? You don't have to like something in order to accept it. And tbh suggesting this kind of thought policing is extremely disturbing. Everyone has the right to think anything as long as they don't act on those thoughts in a harmful manner.

Watching 2 ugly persons fucking doesn't wake up in me the same feelings I could have watching bestiality. At all.



Goodnightmoon said:
Safiir said:

Again - if you find watching two ugly/fat/old people have sex disgusting does that make you uglophob/fatofob/oldofob (yeah I just made those up)? You don't have to like something in order to accept it. And tbh suggesting this kind of thought policing is extremely disturbing. Everyone has the right to think anything as long as they don't act on those thoughts in a harmful manner.

Watching 2 ugly persons fucking doesn't wake up in me the same feelings I could have watching bestiality. At all.

I may be misunderstanding him but I think he meant bestiality as in animals having sex. Which is not what the word means but I just don't see how gay sex and actual bestiality are comparable. I mean bestiality is problematic waaaaay beyond any estaethical issues.



Safiir said:
Goodnightmoon said:

Watching 2 ugly persons fucking doesn't wake up in me the same feelings I could have watching bestiality. At all.

I may be misunderstanding him but I think he meant bestiality as in animals having sex. Which is not what the word means but I just don't see how gay sex and actual bestiality are comparable. I mean bestiality is problematic waaaaay beyond any estaethical issues.

Well bestiality is humans fucking animals and that's the word he used so I think he talks about that.



Goodnightmoon said:
Safiir said:

I may be misunderstanding him but I think he meant bestiality as in animals having sex. Which is not what the word means but I just don't see how gay sex and actual bestiality are comparable. I mean bestiality is problematic waaaaay beyond any estaethical issues.

Well bestiality is humans fucking animals and that's the word he used so I think he talks about that.

Yeah, I know but it just doesn't make sense that he meant it that way.



Torillian said:

But the function that is seen in nature for gay couples is to become serrogate parents for orphaned babies. That sounds a lot like adoption to me and therefore the "it's natural" argument would work just fine for gay couples adopting kids.

Interesting, I didn't know that! Do you have a link to an article or a study about that for me to read?