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Forums - Politics Discussion - London bridge *Multiple Accidents* Breaking news multiple fatalities confirmed.

ratuscafoarterea said:
 

Actually, what is your point? Yes there may be a few retards that commit mass-murders in the name of Christianity but that doesn’t changes the fact that Christianity has reformed and it doesn’t promote killing. On the other hand Islam hasn’t reformed and many imams promote killing of innocents.

Also, these retards that have committed murder in the name of Christianity or white power are an internal Western problem, as most of the West is Christian, radical Islam committing mass murder in the West and other Christian countries (Russia) is an external threat.

 

 

DarthMetalliCube said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

I'm not defending islamic terror, but I think I made my point. (i can add more to this list)

Ok, but how many people did this in the name of their religion, (screming "Jesus is great!" "This is for God and the Holy Spirit!" Etc..) right before commiting the attacks or killing themselves.

Not that I'm defending Christianity. I'm agnostic, and critical of all religion equally, including Christianity.. The thing I don't get is that so many seem so eager to shit on Christianity while Islam for some reason always seems to get a free pass - especially considering the track record of many Muslims in recent polls showing that they see women as second class citizens and a good chunk actually see homosexuality as a punishable sin, and with the several recent terror attacks (and yes I realise actual attacks and violence are obviously just fringe extremists that twist their teachings to justify their violence) But Islam must have SOMETHING to do with this, right? I'm not arguing against the existance of Islam or anything crazy like that obviously, but perhaps a reformation is needed, similar to what Christianity went through 100's of years ago, so that a more progressive, tolerant Islam can emerge.

 

Maybe if you both read the quote I was responding to and not respond out of context.. I don't want this thread to derail, so don't be shocked if this is my last post. So read the quote I was responding to, and maybe we might have a constuctive discussion.



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DarthMetalliCube said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

 

 The thing I don't get is that so many seem so eager to shit on Christianity while Islam for some reason always seems to get a free pass - especially considering the track record of many Muslims in recent polls showing that they see women as second class citizens and a good chunk actually see homosexuality as a punishable sin, and with the several recent terror attacks (and yes I realise actual attacks and violence are obviously just fringe extremists that twist their teachings to justify their violence) But Islam must have SOMETHING to do with this, right? I'm not arguing against the existance of Islam or anything crazy like that obviously, but perhaps a reformation is needed, similar to what Christianity went through 100's of years ago, so that a more progressive, tolerant Islam can emerge.

I think I know the answer to that.  You know how most kids have that moment on their path to adulthood, where they feel they need to deny the values that their parents have, it’s the same on this case.  Most people pass that point and they become adults, some don’t.



 

ArchangelMadzz said:
Qwark said:

How is right wing terrorism the biggest problem in continental Europe. They don't kill nearly as many people as right wing terrorist, except for Breivik. In the US terrorism as a whole isn't much of an issue. Which is surprising since you can buy a gun anywhere. The extreme right is mostly a dog that barks but doesn't bite in Europe. Islamic terrorists however kill plenty of people. The way I see it America is way stronger in the security department than Europe. I would very much doubt this attack would have occurred in the US if they had the same intell as Great Britain.

My bad I assumed you were in America from your previous posts.  I mean right wing terrorism is a bigger problem in the US than islamic terrorism.

That's an obvious strawman because basis in reality or have anything to do with this topic. You're one of the worst Islam apologists I've seen



LadyJasmine said:
I am from a muslim community, the number of muslims with radical views is small but a small percentage of 1.5 billion or millions in muslims in our respective countries is still a large number of people.

Imo I personally the fault the family and friends of the attackers as they generally do know this person is going crazy and radical and stay silent and until Sirens wail again in some European capitals.

I think the biggest problem in the Muslim community is the large number of sympathizers.  It's the reason why so many of these attacks are carried out by 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants.  You grow up in a home that, while the parents would do nothing themselves, they are constantly damning the country you live in, while not condemning these types of attacks or possibly saying things about understanding how the attackers feel, of course their children are going to be more likely the become extremists when they enter their rebellious late teens to early twenties.

These people must be labeled as the animals they are in all homes, regardless of religion.



Aeolus451 said:

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

My bad I assumed you were in America from your previous posts.  I mean right wing terrorism is a bigger problem in the US than islamic terrorism.

That's an obvious strawman because basis in reality or have anything to do with this topic. You're one of the worst Islam apologists I've seen

I was simply responding to his statement of 'There is a reason why terrorism in the US is a lit rarer than in Europe.'
Meaning terrorism isn't rare in the US, Islamic terrorism is rare in the US.


I'm probably a terrible islam apolgist because I'm not an Islam apologist.





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ratuscafoarterea said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

 

 

I'm not defending islamic terror, but I think I made my point. (i can add more to this list)

Actually, what is your point? Yes there may be a few retards that commit mass-murders in the name of Christianity but that doesn’t changes the fact that Christianity has reformed and it doesn’t promote killing. On the other hand Islam hasn’t reformed and many imams promote killing of innocents.

Also, these retards that have committed murder in the name of Christianity or white power are an internal Western problem, as most of the West is Christian, radical Islam committing mass murder in the West and other Christian countries (Russia) is an external threat.

 

I haven't looked up the other people, but Timothy McVeigh was NOT a Catholic. Sure, he was raised Catholic, but when he was older he became Agnostic and claimed there was no hell and that science was his religion.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar for most, if not all, of those people.  But, the blind people who want to defend Islam blindly don't even look those things up and just pass along false information to try to claim Christianity is just as bad.

Sorry, but it's nowhere near it.  Not only do these people not usually kill in the name of their God or faith, the religion they are supposed to belong to almost unanimously condemns their actions.  Islam, on the other hand, has not only not been reformed as a whole, but it also has a large number of extremist sympathizers, which helps breed new extremists.

What the world truly needs to do is stop pointing fingers at things that don't have anything to do with the spread of terrorism. Stop comparing these things to other religions, trying to act is if they are just as bad.  Stop comparing terrorist deaths to accidents, acting like it's no big deal. Then, find those within the Muslim faith who are screaming, "Yes, there is a problem with Islam, it needs to be reformed." And hold them up as the true leaders in their faith. Until then, this will continue and we'll just keep getting more and more poor excuses and reasoning that doesn't address the problem, nor attempts to fix it.



Aeolus451 said:

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

My bad I assumed you were in America from your previous posts.  I mean right wing terrorism is a bigger problem in the US than islamic terrorism.

That's an obvious strawman because basis in reality or have anything to do with this topic. You're one of the worst Islam apologists I've seen

Muslims are less than 1% of the US popuation. White christians are about 60%. So even if they had an equal number of terrorist deaths (which after 9/11 ends up being roughly correct), that would still mean that per capita muslims are 60 times as likely to be involved in terrorism than white christians are.

People just love to lie with statistics without thinking of such things.



ArchangelMadzz said:
Birimbau said:
This is this the beginning of a new normal for Europe. At least UK will regain the control of its borders after leaving Europe Union of Socialist Republics.

The last 2 terrorist attacks here have been from people born in the UK. Immigration didn't really have anything to do with it. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:
quezkatolen said:

but their nearby mosque did, and thats where most of these immigrants hang. read the 9/11 report which obama censored for many years, it showed that CIA saw radical islamic organisations washing money through their local moques to radical muslims.  apprently Obama found that offensive because he made it hidden for the public to see. 

You're talking about something you clearly know nothing about. 

Their mosque's and others in their community reported them to the authorities under suspicions of extremism, that's why they were on a watch list. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:
Qwark said:

Just a shame that putting someone on a watchlist in Europe is the equivalent of meaningless.

A watch list for terrorism is sort of meaningless, seeing as you can't arrest someone until they've broken laws. 

The manchester bomber could've easily looked up how to make a nail bomb on tor, or at an internet cafe and the government are unaware. 

Also there's no real way of stopping people driving their car to go on the pavement and mow people over, unless you ban people from driving cars there isn't really much you can do. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:
Qwark said:

Current privacy laws in the EU also don't help with fighting terrorism. But the real reason why attacks mainly occur in Europe is because Europe is weak, unwilling to takw harsh measures againat terrorism and quite pathetic even. All the terrorists from Paris to London where known by the police some where even under investigation. Yet they could travel to Syria and back freely and Europe isn't changing a thing and hopes these attacks just stop for some reason. There is a reason why terrorism in the US is a lit rarer than in Europe.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-europe-left-itself-open-to-terrorism

Islamic terrorism is rarer in the US. Right wing terrorism is your problem at the moment, we've only had one notable instance of right wing terrorism last year when an mp was killed.

Also the UK has it's own privacy laws, we're very unique in that way from the other EU countries. Our government got caught spying on us, then made it legal to exonerate themselves. Putting the UK in with your Europe narrative doesn't really work that way. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:
Aeolus451 said:

 

That's an obvious strawman because basis in reality or have anything to do with this topic. You're one of the worst Islam apologists I've seen

I was simply responding to his statement of 'There is a reason why terrorism in the US is a lit rarer than in Europe.'
Meaning terrorism isn't rare in the US, Islamic terrorism is rare in the US.


I'm probably a terrible islam apolgist because I'm not an Islam apologist.



Oh really?

1. Immigration doesn't have anything do with it.

2. Right wing extremists is a bigger problem in the us than Islamic terrorism.

3. Watch lists of muslim extremists are meaningless.

4. Mosques report terrorist elements.



bigjon said:
GProgrammer said:

There were 3 terrorists armed with knives (and a van) which caused 6 deaths now you want them armed with guns instead, Ka-Pi96 why do you want 60 londoners killed instead of 6, because more deaths  would of happened if they had access to guns

Hypothetical situation

Ka-pi96 sitting in pub supping an ale "treken rulz"

gunman bursts in spraying bullets

Ka-pi96 "thank god Im packing a weapon" (reaches down)

Ka-pi96's head explodes in a mist of red blood

terrorist "thank allah they now allow people to buy guns in this country I can easily kill much more infidals quickly"

Ka-pi96's ghost 'well it seemed a good idea at the time'

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/04/us/garland-mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/

this is what happens in the USA if they try that shit in a "non gun free zone"

The best qoute of the article..."Authorities are still trying to determine the suspects' motives, U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson said Monday."

 

Yea, I bet that's real hard to figure out when you're working under Obama.  We know exactly what their motives were.



Aeolus451 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

The last 2 terrorist attacks here have been from people born in the UK. Immigration didn't really have anything to do with it. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

You're talking about something you clearly know nothing about. 

Their mosque's and others in their community reported them to the authorities under suspicions of extremism, that's why they were on a watch list. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

A watch list for terrorism is sort of meaningless, seeing as you can't arrest someone until they've broken laws. 

The manchester bomber could've easily looked up how to make a nail bomb on tor, or at an internet cafe and the government are unaware. 

Also there's no real way of stopping people driving their car to go on the pavement and mow people over, unless you ban people from driving cars there isn't really much you can do. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

Islamic terrorism is rarer in the US. Right wing terrorism is your problem at the moment, we've only had one notable instance of right wing terrorism last year when an mp was killed.

Also the UK has it's own privacy laws, we're very unique in that way from the other EU countries. Our government got caught spying on us, then made it legal to exonerate themselves. Putting the UK in with your Europe narrative doesn't really work that way. 

 

ArchangelMadzz said:

I was simply responding to his statement of 'There is a reason why terrorism in the US is a lit rarer than in Europe.'
Meaning terrorism isn't rare in the US, Islamic terrorism is rare in the US.


I'm probably a terrible islam apolgist because I'm not an Islam apologist.



Oh really?

1. Immigration doesn't have anything do with it.

2. Right wing extremists is a bigger problem in the us than Islamic terrorism.

3. Watch lists of muslim extremists are meaningless.

4. Mosques report terrorist elements.

Sigh. All but 1 were objective factual statements. 

1. I said the last 2 attackers here in the UK were born in the UK. They weren't immigrants. Factual statement.

2. There have been more Right wing terrorist attacks in the US in the past 10 years than there have been Islamic terrorist attacks. Factual statement. 

3. A watch list is meaningless because it obviously doesn't prevent terrorist attacks. The last 2 attackers here were on watchlists and it didn't do anything. Some facts behind it but watchlists being meaningless is my opinion as it doesn't prevent anything. 

4. I said the mosque of the manchester attacker reported him to the authorities for extremism. That is a factual statement.

You've made 0 points here. *facepalm gif*



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