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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump Paris Meta-Decision

 

Should Trump stay or not?

Yes, stay 119 50.42%
 
No, don't stay 102 43.22%
 
Not sure 15 6.36%
 
Total:236
WolfpackN64 said:
Superman4 said:

You do know that China still out polutes the US by a considerable margin? Just because they have lowered it by a bigger percentage than the US doesnt mean they are beating the US. They started from farther out than we did. China has a big smog problem, somthing the US has gotten under control with Catalytic converters, unfortunatly Catalytic converters add to green house gasses so less smog and more global warming.

They have a bigger smog problem, but they are already ahead of the US in green energy production and invest much more in green energy.

Yes they are. It’s nice when you have all of the manufacturing in your country and don’t need to spend on research and development. US and other countries who have manufacturing done in china are essentially giving them the keys to the castle. They have the factories in place for production, buy the materials in bulk to fulfill orders and over-run production to create their own brand for cheap. They do it in almost every electronics industry as it is already. They do it with clothing as well. Those $30 Jordan’s you get from China that cost $200 in the states are the same Jordan’s from the same factory.   So that $100 billion they invested in Green energy in 2015 pretty much went right back into the Chinese economy. When the US invests in Green Energy a big chunk also goes into the Chinese economy for manufacturing, it’s a win win for them.



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Gotta love Macron.

#makeourplanetgreatagain



A counter to common reasons cited for withdrawing from the Paris accord.

https://youtu.be/1WKoj-kodBw

p.s. I used to know how to embed.....if anyone could provide pointers....



This treat is useless anyways.



Superman4 said:
IsawYoshi said:

You continue to say that the US don't know where the money goes but this is simply not true. When giving money to the fund created by the paris agreement there are first and foremost some general rules of where the money is supposed to go, which the US is aware of assuming they read the treaty they signed and now are agains, and furthermore the specific investments are also not secret, so when the investments are done the information will be there for the US president to see. 

 

All areas are affected by you because global warming is a global effect. I know, judging by the name one would think the pollution made in the US only affected you guys, but it turns out that the word global actually refers to a worldwide phenomenon. 

I understand completly about global warming. Tons of things contribute to it including humans. My issue with this agreemenet is that it is essentially a handshake saying you will do something with no reprecussions for failing to do so. If the US took the money it is spending on the treaty and focused on reducing greenhouse gasses in the US, it would affect everyone. If the Chinese used the money they were were putting towards the agreement and used it to reduce green house gasses in its country it would affect the world etc. etc. The falacy here is saying that we need to give money to other countries because of global warming. If an Island sinks under sea level then help the people of said island relocate. I am tired of paying for other countries people out of my pocket when people in my own country are suffering. At what point do other countries start taking responsability for themselves? We dont need some new law or some new agreement with a fund to stop or slow global warming. 

I think that if Trump's announcement had been "I'm getting out of the Paris Accords so that we can focus on green energy research locally" there would be a lot less people mad although we'd still look like asshats to the rest of the globe. Do you honestly think that that money will now instead be used to fund more green energy research here, or just go to tax breaks for the wealthy like all the other money Trump has saved thus far?



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Trump made the right decision. We finally have a president that puts America first



palou said:

Regardless of if we are conscious of the phenomen or not, without an agreement of any kind, stated or not, it will always be more logical to act against the collective wellbeing. Rellying on the good will of individuals is a catastrophe bound to happen (as the heavy fall of productivity in all attempted communist states has proven.) 

I do not necessarily see the Paris Agreement, or anything similar, as being against libertarian principles. It is simply a collective aknowledgment that it would be in the interest of all if all participated. Each party has the power to break the agreement for all, but the nash equilibrium, with rational players, makes each member continue participating. Trump at least somewhat destabilized this equilibrium, which could lead other "players" to go back to their direct individual interests, instead of making agreements with others

Of course, in practice, people aren't rational, which makes game theory a much, much harder subject. The math is pretty beautiful, though.

In the end, I will always fundementaly be in disagreement with Libertarians; as I do not consider Liberty to be a fundemental part of morality, but mearly a tool. I believe in capitalism, and more specifically, in competition, as it does follow a sound mathematical model; however, it is also mathematicaly unquestionable that there are several instances where limiting the choices of individuals does bring to a greater collctive productivity/happiness. 

I believe that this gives the right to breach the liberty of individuals; but I respect that some could disagree with that.

I greatly respect the thought put into your point of view, that's all I really ask of myself and others - from there productive exchanges will always ensue.

Hmmm, bit dramatic? Anyways, cheers ;)



forest-spirit said:
DarthMetalliCube said:
Jesus christ people, doesn't all this hysteria, hatred and obsession get tiring after awhile? I'm exhausted just reading this crap. Really gotta make a point to avoid political topics from now on because it's seriously bringing me down. Seriously, some of you just gotta take a deep breath and chill, otherwise you're gonna be in for a long 4/8 years.

As long as Trump continues to make decisions that a whole lot of us heavily disagrees with and keeps that terrible attitude of his then we'll continue to oppose and complain. That's just something you'll have to deal with. And if you don't like it when people express opinions that differs from yours you do have the option to hide political topics.

I guess I'll have to hide them then.. As an American, I get anti Trump propaganda stuffed down my throat almost every waking hour of every day for the past 2 years, no matter where I turn (and no this isn't an exaggeration), and it's just really starting to drive me insane (and this is coming from a guy who's not even that fond of Trump, but it's just I hate and distrust mainstream media far more). I come here partially to avoid and esscape bs like this. 



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Naum said:

The french President just ripped trump  a new one.

It's hard not to like the man.



                
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