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Forums - General Discussion - Safari hunter Killed During Hunt

Good lord, people sure are cruel and quick to judge.

I was raised in a very rural area where hunting is so prevalent that we would get the first day of hunting season off of school because people were so inclined to skip that day anyway. The deer population here is so massive that they'd starve if hunters didn't keep the population down.

Now that said, I really hate sport hunting. I find it abhorrent that someone would want to mount an animal's head on their wall, proud that they killed an innocent animal that was defenseless against the power of a gun. I was the weirdo they called the "Bug Girl" as a little kid because I would protect ants from kids trying to step on them.

But for god's sake, I can still recognize the difference between a human life and an animal's. Do I condone his career choice? No. But I also don't know his circumstances, and I also understand through experience with people that hunt that they don't see their actions as inherently malicious, whether I agree with that assessment or not.

Hunting, evening mounting and posing with one's kill, doesn't make him a horrible person who deserved to die and I find the people celebrating a man's death more disgusting than someone who hunts for a living.



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Nautilus said:
Zkuq said:

That's a really bad defense for a lot of things. A lot of legal things can be and are considered bad. A common example would be evading taxes, which is often done using perfectly legal loopholes.

The amount of meat people should eat is really small, if I recall correctly. It probably (but not necessarily, as I don't know the details well enough) makes even relatively small amounts of meat excessive.

Yeaaaa, that is extremely debatable.Not saying that you dont evidence to back this up, but science keeps changing its mind on how much to eat something is healthy or not.And I mean, we have been eating meat forever, and taking out exceptions, it was never harmful.Its the same about that "the healthiest way to eat is to eat something every 3 hours".I mean, that can be true, but you wont live a less fulfilling or shorter life for not doing that.

Well, there's not much I can say if you don't trust science. I kind of understand your point of view though, because regarding food, the results do indeed feel like they're constantly changing. Often, it sounds like correct results are misinterpreted, but I don't really know. Anyway, science is all we've got.

Also, your post reminds me I forgot my original point in my last post. Harmful and lethal are two different things. For all I know, red meat could be completely harmless to most people, but it could cause even lethal diseases in some people, lowering life expectancy and being harmful and lethal to some. As far as I can see, it's perfectly plausible that red meat is harmful, at least in excess. Observing the effects of some things can be very difficult and slow though, so it might seem like they don't have any effect. Food is often one such thing.

EDIT: Offtopic, but it's noticeably easier to read your text if you put a space before the word after a period. That's also how English is supposed to be written, and that's also how most people write it. Just a friendly tip!



Nautilus said:
m0ney said:

Seriously? He was a mass murderer. Should have happened 30 years sooner.

Yes.How can you be so cold about him?If you read the article, he has a wife and 5 children.He started this business not because he enjoys seeing animals squirming in pain, but because he needed money for college.And I mean, humanity hunts animals for its entire existence(and animals do the same).Outside of the possibility of him torturing an animal just for the fun, he did nothing wrong.And as far as I can see, its all legal, and nothing shady about his business.

I always find it funny when people acusse these guys of being "mass murderers".Do you eat meat?Then you also are a mass murderer, because you incentivize the killing of animals, even if they are raised for it, to harvest their meat.Do you eat fish?Then you also are a mass murderer, because you incentivize fishers to go out in the see and capture and kill the fish out there for our consuption.Do you eat vegetable and plants?Then you re also murderer.They are also living beings, and just because they dont scream and cry dosent make them less living.There are more and more researches indicating that plants have councioness, so they are as much alive as any other animal.

Its very hyprocrite to be judgemental of these stuff because you are distant from them.Dont get me wrong, I dont like it either.But I wont judge here when Im as much "guilty" as them, like you are doing.

The elephant had a family too.

If he needed money for college cool but that was in 1989, could have gotten a degree that didn't require killing for 28 years.

Sure we eat meat but we bread it to eat it. We don't go around killing endangered or on the verge of extinction animals for fun. 



 

 

I'm not saying it's true for this particular instance in any shape or form--I have no clue about the ecosystem there--but anyone saying all hunting should be banned simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

As someone who lives in a rural area of the US, I can say that controlled hunting is absolutely vital. We've decimated a lot of natural predators, so it's now our responsibility to take their place. Otherwise, populations would surge, animals would starve, and you've have more moving out into high-traffic areas and causing accidents as they look for food. If they didn't let hunters hunt then the government would have to do it and it would just be a waste.

Of course, it's also true that I loathe some hunters I've met. There are those that hunt illegally and dump entrails or even entire headless carcasses in ditches. At least they come down seriously hard on those they catch.



Nautilus said:

How can you be so cold about him?If you read the article, he has a wife and 5 children.

He was a cold man, he left many orphans, destroyed many families and felt great satisfaction in his job, he got what he deserved 



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The Elephant had nothing to do with him having a big family and needing the money, it was his decision having 5 kids, not the Elephant's... On the other hand, the elephant had no choice, it had to pay with its life the man's decision of having a big family... Not fair at all!



carlos3189 said:
The Elephant had nothing to do with him having a big family and needing the money, it was his decision having 5 kids, not the Elephant's... On the other hand, the elephant had no choice, it had to pay with its life the man's decision of having a big family... Not fair at all!

  Pretty much this, one day you're the hunter..the day next you might be the prey, it's the circle of life.



“On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer.” - Satoru Iwata

I may abhor the hunting of creatures like these (honestly, hunting elephants more than just about any animal I can think of given their brilliance and easily observed human-like feelings and relationships), but I'm certainly not going to dance on the grave of this man who, from all accounts, was a decent man who lived a full life with all the requisite experiences and relationships that come with it.

I really wish the ghoulish anti-hunters on this forum and elsewhere would actually get to know some "hunters", as I've known plenty including friends and even a grandfather, and they can be wonderful, well rounded people. Granted, none hunted big, rare game (in fact hunters are legitimately necessary on the east coast to combat the boar infestation), but it's a similar mindset and concept that leads to such actions.

They're brought up in the hunting culture, and it becomes a part of them much as it has for hundreds of thousands of years predating our own species' existence. It does not restrict them, however, from leading full and productive lives elsewhere. They are not some monstrous boogie-men, and celebrating their deaths only emboldens pro-hunters and makes people on the fence feel the anti-hunters are all psychopathic douchebags.

That sort of approach can only win over so many people, as is evident in the running joke that PETA has become and the brick wall the vegetarian movement hit years ago despite the adherents being equally distributed across the political spectrum; these movements, with their open disdain for outsiders, are attempting to attract flies with vinegar, and it is certainly counterproductive.



Zkuq said:
Nautilus said:

Yeaaaa, that is extremely debatable.Not saying that you dont evidence to back this up, but science keeps changing its mind on how much to eat something is healthy or not.And I mean, we have been eating meat forever, and taking out exceptions, it was never harmful.Its the same about that "the healthiest way to eat is to eat something every 3 hours".I mean, that can be true, but you wont live a less fulfilling or shorter life for not doing that.

Well, there's not much I can say if you don't trust science. I kind of understand your point of view though, because regarding food, the results do indeed feel like they're constantly changing. Often, it sounds like correct results are misinterpreted, but I don't really know. Anyway, science is all we've got.

Also, your post reminds me I forgot my original point in my last post. Harmful and lethal are two different things. For all I know, red meat could be completely harmless to most people, but it could cause even lethal diseases in some people, lowering life expectancy and being harmful and lethal to some. As far as I can see, it's perfectly plausible that red meat is harmful, at least in excess. Observing the effects of some things can be very difficult and slow though, so it might seem like they don't have any effect. Food is often one such thing.

EDIT: Offtopic, but it's noticeably easier to read your text if you put a space before the word after a period. That's also how English is supposed to be written, and that's also how most people write it. Just a friendly tip!

Oh, my whole point in about the science always changing about stuff like this, is just a point to show that, outside of taking things to extreme or close to it, having a healthy diet depends alot on your own body. Due to the metabolism of one person, he or she may react better to meat than other, thus being more helthy for that person to eat more meat. And of course the oposite would be also true. What I simply dont agree with is the statement that meat is unhealthy, even if you dont eat much of it. It varies from person to person sure, but the meat is as healthy as it gets(you can get most nutrients you need out of it, and also has unique nutrients that you can only get from it).

The whole point is moderation. Only eating meat can be potentially bad, but not eating any of it is also potentially bad(vegans and vegetariants needs to take supplements to conpensate, if they are taking their diet seriously).I think it should go without saying, anything in excess can be harmful, even water is.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Cobretti2 said:
Nautilus said:

Yes.How can you be so cold about him?If you read the article, he has a wife and 5 children.He started this business not because he enjoys seeing animals squirming in pain, but because he needed money for college.And I mean, humanity hunts animals for its entire existence(and animals do the same).Outside of the possibility of him torturing an animal just for the fun, he did nothing wrong.And as far as I can see, its all legal, and nothing shady about his business.

I always find it funny when people acusse these guys of being "mass murderers".Do you eat meat?Then you also are a mass murderer, because you incentivize the killing of animals, even if they are raised for it, to harvest their meat.Do you eat fish?Then you also are a mass murderer, because you incentivize fishers to go out in the see and capture and kill the fish out there for our consuption.Do you eat vegetable and plants?Then you re also murderer.They are also living beings, and just because they dont scream and cry dosent make them less living.There are more and more researches indicating that plants have councioness, so they are as much alive as any other animal.

Its very hyprocrite to be judgemental of these stuff because you are distant from them.Dont get me wrong, I dont like it either.But I wont judge here when Im as much "guilty" as them, like you are doing.

The elephant had a family too.

If he needed money for college cool but that was in 1989, could have gotten a degree that didn't require killing for 28 years.

Sure we eat meat but we bread it to eat it. We don't go around killing endangered or on the verge of extinction animals for fun. 

Exactly.I condonne this kind of activity.Endangered or protected animals is completely off limits. And this hunter wasnt doing anything like this. Hence people should be more respectful here in my opinion.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1