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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Here is why Hack and Slash games don't sell

GOWTLOZ on 15 June 2017

Update: God of War's E3 gameplay this year shows that it is in fact a hack and slash game. Things lookinga bit better for the genre, with Hellblade coming this year and Darksiders 3 and God of War coming next year. But I think God of War is the only one of these games that will sell well.



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jonathanalis on 15 June 2017

i know the feel, bro. 2d plataform is my favorite genre. luckily we still have nintendo and indies in the industry. =)



GOWTLOZ on 22 June 2017
John2290 said:
Cough, Darksouls, bloodborne, nioh, cough. Genres are just morphing also, like RPG's adopting H&S mechanics. I would pay for another proper DMC, GOW or NGS but a period will come when there hasn't been a release in a long while and everyone gets hyped and nostalgic at the same time for...oh, let's say DMC 2 or Devil may cry 5 or DMC devil may cry rebooted again...then it'll rain and when a rains, in the gaming industry, it effing pours man.
Also, I have a theory that internet contection speeds are getting fast enough at the base level to allow for much faster H&S style combat in MMO's and MMORPGs so the MMO's that are being story boarded now or perhaps in eary development may have much faster and more fluid combat at least akin to say, TW3 or Nioh and perhaps the ones that go into development in the 9th gen will be capable of DMC or GOW fluidity.

Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Nioh aren't hack and slash games, the closest any of them is to a hack and slash is Nioh. Still the combat, pacing and general flow of the games is very different from what I would call a hack and slash.

I would consider this a different genre entirely.

jonathanalis said:
i know the feel, bro. 2d plataform is my favorite genre. luckily we still have nintendo and indies in the industry. =)

Yes, those aren't going anywhere. Plenty of 2D Platformers I can think of that were released this generation.



JWeinCom on 22 June 2017
GOWTLOZ said:
John2290 said:
Cough, Darksouls, bloodborne, nioh, cough. Genres are just morphing also, like RPG's adopting H&S mechanics. I would pay for another proper DMC, GOW or NGS but a period will come when there hasn't been a release in a long while and everyone gets hyped and nostalgic at the same time for...oh, let's say DMC 2 or Devil may cry 5 or DMC devil may cry rebooted again...then it'll rain and when a rains, in the gaming industry, it effing pours man.
Also, I have a theory that internet contection speeds are getting fast enough at the base level to allow for much faster H&S style combat in MMO's and MMORPGs so the MMO's that are being story boarded now or perhaps in eary development may have much faster and more fluid combat at least akin to say, TW3 or Nioh and perhaps the ones that go into development in the 9th gen will be capable of DMC or GOW fluidity.

Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Nioh aren't hack and slash games, the closest any of them is to a hack and slash is Nioh. Still the combat, pacing and general flow of the games is very different from what I would call a hack and slash.

I would consider this a different genre entirely.

If you disqualify anything that deviates from the strict formula of DMC, then of course you're not going to have a lot of high selling Hack and Slash games.  Because the formula evolved, which is kind of what happens with most game genres.  That's like not counting any game as an RPG unless it's turn based.



method114 on 22 June 2017

I feel like Nioh is where they are headed now. Similar to dark souls but faster and not quite as hard.



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naruball on 22 June 2017
sethnintendo said:

I'll tell you why they don't sell so well.

Click, click, click, click. click, click, click, click x10000000. Eventually it kind of wears you down but somehow I trooped through Diablo 1 and 2. I guess that is where I burned out.  Takes as much skill as being a button smasher in Soul Caliber, Tekken or Virtua Fighter.

You sound like someone who has never played a proper hack and slash game. Seriously, try that with most AAA hack and slash games and it will take you nowhere



GOWTLOZ on 22 June 2017
JWeinCom said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Nioh aren't hack and slash games, the closest any of them is to a hack and slash is Nioh. Still the combat, pacing and general flow of the games is very different from what I would call a hack and slash.

I would consider this a different genre entirely.

If you disqualify anything that deviates from the strict formula of DMC, then of course you're not going to have a lot of high selling Hack and Slash games.  Because the formula evolved, which is kind of what happens with most game genres.  That's like not counting any game as an RPG unless it's turn based.

Dark Soul's combat isn't even close to as deep as any hack and slash game's combat. It feels good but the moveset is far too limited for me to consider it as a hack and slash game. Its closer to a simple brawler, with simple button inputs but with a twist that enemies do a lot of damage.



JWeinCom on 22 June 2017
GOWTLOZ said:
JWeinCom said:

If you disqualify anything that deviates from the strict formula of DMC, then of course you're not going to have a lot of high selling Hack and Slash games.  Because the formula evolved, which is kind of what happens with most game genres.  That's like not counting any game as an RPG unless it's turn based.

Dark Soul's combat isn't even close to as deep as any hack and slash game's combat. It feels good but the moveset is far too limited for me to consider it as a hack and slash game. Its closer to a simple brawler, with simple button inputs but with a twist that enemies do a lot of damage.

I haven't actually played Dark Souls, but the reasoning that it has a limited moveset is pretty poor.  

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/

If you disqualify any hack and slash game that does sell well, then yeah, hack and slash games don't sell.  If you mean that games in the DMC style don't sell, then maybe you'd have a point.



GOWTLOZ on 22 June 2017
JWeinCom said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Dark Soul's combat isn't even close to as deep as any hack and slash game's combat. It feels good but the moveset is far too limited for me to consider it as a hack and slash game. Its closer to a simple brawler, with simple button inputs but with a twist that enemies do a lot of damage.

I haven't actually played Dark Souls, but the reasoning that it has a limited moveset is pretty poor.  

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/

If you disqualify any hack and slash game that does sell well, then yeah, hack and slash games don't sell.  If you mean that games in the DMC style don't sell, then maybe you'd have a point.

Hack and slash games are all about the moveset, same way a fighting game is all about the moveset. Take that away and almost every game with melee combat could be considered hack and slash.

You need to play both games you mentioned to know the difference. You can't call it a logical fallacy if you don't even know enough about both games to compare them.



JWeinCom on 22 June 2017
GOWTLOZ said:
JWeinCom said:

I haven't actually played Dark Souls, but the reasoning that it has a limited moveset is pretty poor.  

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/

If you disqualify any hack and slash game that does sell well, then yeah, hack and slash games don't sell.  If you mean that games in the DMC style don't sell, then maybe you'd have a point.

Hack and slash games are all about the moveset, same way a fighting game is all about the moveset. Take that away and almost every game with melee combat could be considered hack and slash.

You need to play both games you mentioned to know the difference. You can't call it a logical fallacy if you don't even know enough about both games to compare them.

I can, because I'm judging your reasoning, not the games.  Whether or not the games  should be considered hack and slash, the argument you're using to distinguish them is a no true Scotsman fallacy.  I can't see any justification for defining hack and slashes as games with a lot of moves, except that those are the ones you like.

A fighting game is a fighting game regardless of what moveset you have.  Dive kick is most certainly a fighting game.  Has only one move.  Doesn't change anything.